AI Discussion (dev branch)

[haleks 8212]

I have never understood this vanilla value from BI..

 

That is something I'd like to see improved in the future : correct me if I'm wrong, but currently, all editor-placed units have the default 0.5 skill level, right?

It would be nice to have the default levels configured per infantry class (like the camouflage attribute, maybe); snipers and leaders would have a higher default skill level, we wouldn't need to change this for each units when making missions, and it would still be configurable for special cases or mods.

Would be the perfect occasion for BIS to take a(nother) good look at AI skills.

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

Is that for AI on shore detecting submerged units or submerged units detecting other submerged units?

 

 

 

God I hope so!  So frustrating trying to make missions where a player might approach very close to enemy units while still submerged.

[Vasily.B 529]

I cannot get lower AI skill beacuse RHS choppers will miss every target.

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

I cannot get lower AI skill beacuse RHS choppers will miss every target.

RHS choppers still hit targets fine here, even with skill at 0 using this in the choppers init:

{_x setskill 0} foreach crew this

Just takes a bit longer until the chopper engages, the gunners have no problems hitting the targets.

Seems to be on your side again?

Care to share a repro mission?

 

Cheers

[Vasily.B 529]

RHS choppers still hit targets fine here, even with skill at 0 using this in the choppers init:

{_x setskill 0} foreach crew this

Just takes a bit longer until the chopper engages, the gunners have no problems hitting the targets.

Seems to be on your side again?

Care to share a repro mission?

 

Cheers

RHS team stated this long time ago on feedback tracker as "arma bug", so NO its not on my side. I cannot put this in init, while o play workshop/campaign content. Icant fix every played mission i, where is the joy from gameplay when its become gamefix? Try KA52.

[dragon01 902]

From videos we've seen them playing, I'm afraid you are right... They play in recruit with all HUD elements. I'm not sure they keep in mind veteran players that play without when they design missions. I hope I'm wrong on that.

I'm afraid you're right. I play on a custom difficulty with most HUD elements disabled, but I left waypoints on just for this reason. I set them to fade out after a while (can bring them up again by looking at the map) so that they're not too much of a distraction, but it's not an ideal solution.

[klamacz 448]

God I hope so!  So frustrating trying to make missions where a player might approach very close to enemy units while still submerged.

Yes. It is first fix for cases when unit on the shore would spot the diver too easily. I've seen good stuff incoming, #praiseOukej

[Freghar 73]

Yes. It is first fix for cases when unit on the shore would spot the diver too easily. I've seen good stuff incoming, #praiseOukej

At this rate, I'll be able to remove all my hacks. :)

[andersson 285]

I'm afraid you're right. I play on a custom difficulty with most HUD elements disabled, but I left waypoints on just for this reason. I set them to fade out after a while (can bring them up again by looking at the map) so that they're not too much of a distraction, but it's not an ideal solution.

This is a fundamental change since OFP-era. Then BIS made missions to be played with no help and if a player wanted it easier he/she could enable whatever difficulty setting to make the gameplay a bit easier. Today BI makes the missions for easy settings and it seems like they think higher difficulty is for replay as some kind of achievement? Unless they completely ignore those difficulty settings and the players who disables everything....?

Sorry for the OT, but I so miss the "old times" when I could enjoy the vanilla missions instead of rage quitting because I have no clue where to go or what to do.

 

Maybe it's not too offtopic as BI should make their missions for veteran/elite settings and tweak the AI accordingly. BI, throw away you xbox controllers and stop making your missions "accessible" with plenty of UI. Make your missions/game by tweaking default values for AI and let the players decide what help they prefer to play with. This way new players will enjoy it without complaining about headshots and old players dont have to tweak. The ones that consider themselves top tier whatever also know how to tweak the values up.

Who knows, we might start to play your missions that you spend a lot of time creating...?

 

taking a chill pill and going to sleep.....

[R3vo 2654]

I found a reliable way to reproduce an issue with the pathfinding for infantry units.

 

In the following test mission, the AI unit is ordered to get on the roof of one of the office building on Altis.

It moves to the main entrance, stops there, does two circles and then, after a few seconds moves on top of the building. Make sure to use x4 time simulation.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s25xh374qv93811/AI_infantry_pathfinding.Altis.zip?dl=0

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

I found a reliable way to reproduce an issue with the pathfinding for infantry units.

 

In the following test mission, the AI unit is ordered to get on the roof of one of the office building on Altis.

It moves to the main entrance, stops there, does two circles and then, after a few seconds moves on top of the building. Make sure to use x4 time simulation.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s25xh374qv93811/AI_infantry_pathfinding.Altis.zip?dl=0

 

Isn't this an issue with the simulation being sped up rather than the pathfinding?

setAccTime doesn't work in MP anyway.

 

Cheers

[R3vo 2654]

Isn't this an issue with the simulation being sped up rather than the pathfinding?

setAccTime doesn't work in MP anyway.

 

Cheers

 

No! The issue can also be reproduced with accTime x1. I just added that to sped up the process.

[Vasily.B 529]

Whats is the change about AUTOTARGET for choppers? Will this prevent freezing in the air for them?

[oukej 2911]

The "freezing" is actually fleeing. Happens also when helicopter gets shot at from unknown source.

It ain't perfect, true. Atm I can only suggest disabling it via https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/allowFleeing

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

The "freezing" is actually fleeing. Happens also when helicopter gets shot at from unknown source.

It ain't perfect, true. Atm I can only suggest disabling it via https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/allowFleeing

 

i thought of this when i hear this new info :)

 

 

 

GOAT AI - arma has it

 

 

 

 

 

The specific 'goat' affected by this issue is the WY-55 armed hellcat AI. they seem prefer freezing than fighting. If you can sneak in a fix to the WY-55 hellcat AI for 1.64 that would be lovely.

[das attorney 858]

Hi Oukej,

 

There's a couple of things I noticed recently about AI in the sea while mission making I wanted to mention before I forgot.

 

1 - I was on a beach and some enemy AI swam up to the shore and started shooting from underwater but they didn't realise that their bullets disappear when they leave the water so they carried on shooting until they were out of ammo.

 

2 - An APC in the water spotted an enemy boat and then disgorged all of it's (non-diver) passengers into the ocean; presumably "canunloadincombat" config parameter makes no distinction between land and water. 

 

3 - Sometimes, the Strider gets stuck near the shore and can't move ever again.  (Maybe a vehicle issue and not AI).

 

Let me know if you need repros and I'll put something together for you.

 

Thanks for continued work on AI and keep the good work up!  :)

[.kju 3245]

For you AI buffs - I'd be happy to get some confirmation and more input if these AI issues are still relevant/present in A3:

https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/194434-arma-3-targeting-review-revision-2/?p=3094525

Thanks!

[Vasily.B 529]

i thought of this when i hear this new info :)

 

 

 

GOAT AI - arma has it

 

 

 

 

 

The specific 'goat' affected by this issue is the WY-55 armed hellcat AI. they seem prefer freezing than fighting. If you can sneak in a fix to the WY-55 hellcat AI for 1.64 that would be lovely.

Actually i dont know what chopper dont suffer from it. It really should be fixed guys, allowfleeing cannot be added on every WS mission (workshop) or campaign. Choppers wasnt behaving like that before 1.56 or 1.58 as i remember. Please, if possible, revert this change, it removed any danger from choppers now, beacuse you can walk with rifle w/scope and just kill the pilot from fleeing chopper.

[oukej 2911]

I've just checked Arma 1 and the fleeing looked the same even there.

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

Testing the zubr recently against AI that only wield pistols/revolvers made for an odd encounter.

 

AI doesn't fire at me until I get closer to what seemed like 30-35m.

They even fire handgrenades at me but refuse to fire their sidearms.

Now I usually reduce AI accuracy to simulate untrained units, even when using vanilla editor placed AI units they won't open fire with sidearms until I'm closer than 40-50m.

 

I'm using a player attached fired EH that reveals me to all units within audible distance of my fired weapon.

So after firing the first shot they basically know I'm around.

 

Any chance to increase the engagement distance of handguns up to 75-80m?

Otherwise AI only armed with handguns are easy targets if you got a rifle+scope.

 

Cheers

[bars91 956]

AI only armed with handguns are easy targets if you got a rifle+scope.

 

Isn't it logical? Or am I missing something there?  :ph34r:

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

Isn't it logical? Or am I missing something there?  :ph34r:

Read my post again.

You quoted me out of context.

 

Cheers

[Variable 322]

Any chance to increase the engagement distance of handguns up to 75-80m?

That is a bit extreme. I believe the average effective range for the typical soldier (not Wyatt Earp) using a sidearm, would not exceed 25 meters in battlefield conditions.

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

That is a bit extreme. I believe the average effective range for the typical soldier (not Wyatt Earp) using a sidearm, would not exceed 25 meters in battlefield conditions.

 

Nothing to do with effective range.

If there's an armed soldier all set to shoot you,

and you only got a handgun, do you explain to him how you're not Wyatt Earp and simply refuse to shoot because he's further away than 25m?

 

My request aims for more viability of sidearms in close combat scenarios for AI.

They should engage anyone up to 75-80m, no matter if they can hit their target or not.

Anything better than just standing there waiting to be gunned down.

 

Cheers

[Variable 322]

Well if an AI runs out of rifle ammo and is left only with its sidearm it should either go prone, take cover, flee, or close the distance to engage from effective range. All these options are better than firing from 75m because even if it hit its target (extremely low chances) the damage inflicted will be too low to make a difference.