AI Discussion (dev branch)

[dale0404 5]

"Your game settings" is exactly it, on Dedicated servers the settings are currently maxed to what seems to be super AI, and none adjustable. If SP or none dedicated settings can be adjusted.

They are of course adjustable:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?147537-Tutorial-How-to-run-ArmA3-on-a-dedicated-server

and

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/server.armaprofile

Both on these forums...

[bad benson 1733]

ok people. time to start testing like crazy again. seems like the AI is up to date again. http://dev.arma3.com/spotrep-00011

[Windwalking 18]

ok people. time to start testing like crazy again. seems like the AI is up to date again. http://dev.arma3.com/spotrep-00011

About time!! Time to mod less and play more!

[Smurf 12]

But they aren't on their whole glory as in pre release yet, once they were very quickly both in engagements and movement on MOUT situations.

[Bouben 3]

ok people. time to start testing like crazy again. seems like the AI is up to date again. http://dev.arma3.com/spotrep-00011

I am sorry, but how did you deduce that?

It is just an update for the stable branch. We already had all those fixes in devbranch and there was no new update on AI being pre-release-like.

It would be very good if BIS could clarify it for us - to stop speculations.

[ebarstad 18]

I am sorry, but how did you deduce that?

It's the first item listed under engine. Links to here.

[bad benson 1733]

I am sorry, but how did you deduce that?

It is just an update for the stable branch. We already had all those fixes in devbranch and there was no new update on AI being pre-release-like.

It would be very good if BIS could clarify it for us - to stop speculations.

it's not just an update for the stable. i'm on dev and it updated. and it is more smooth, has light shafts etc. so i'm pretty sure there are AI changes too. the spotrep has a link to the AI changelog without any specification so i assumed that all the latest changes are in now.

if that is not so, than i hope there will be a statement to clarify. sorry if i caused confusion but to me it was pretty clear. thx for planting doubts in my head again. now i'll be paranoid again...:p

EDIT: i guess the question is, if the fact that dev was updated too, means that dev is older than before like on release.

Edited September 28, 2013 by Bad Benson

[killerwhale 1]

So Bohemia could not fix the AI's inability to quickly turn to where fire is coming from because i can see it has not. well this is disappointing

[Dwarden 1125]

lil confused by that last post killerwhale ? ... you want AI to pinpoint source of fire immediately or was that ironic and you hinting it's absurdly precise ?

cause it's often one of these two extremes so AI either fails to react properly or immediately lands fire spot on the source of fire ...

neither of that is liked by players ...

[dmarkwick 261]

So Bohemia could not fix the AI's inability to quickly turn to where fire is coming from because i can see it has not. well this is disappointing

To be fair, I also have an inability to turn quickly to fire :) :)

[KeyCat 131]

To be fair, I also have an inability to turn quickly to fire :) :)

Same for me but without the ability to pinpoint a concealed enemy in a split second :)

/KC

[bravo409 13]

Is there a script or coding I can use to make the ai less of a aimbot? thanks

[BL1P 35]

AI bug on feedback.

With repo steps.

Only happens on dedicated servers NOT in the editor ! (unsure about hosted only checked in editor and on a dedicated server).

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=15044

Hope this info is relevant here if not feel free to move it.

[maturin 12]

lil confused by that last post killerwhale ? ... you want AI to pinpoint source of fire immediately or was that ironic and you hinting it's absurdly precise ?

cause it's often one of these two extremes so AI either fails to react properly or immediately lands fire spot on the source of fire ...

neither of that is liked by players ...

As I'm sure you're aware, the core complaint about ArmA AI is that they start out as grandma's with glasses and hearing aids, and then suddenly become killer robots.

If an AI unit does not have line of sight to a unit, or is facing away, and is listening to that unit's gunshots, they can misjudge the direction of fire by as a much as 180degrees.

I have seen entire squads charging bravely away from the battlefield, because they somehow think the gunshots are originating from a point in the absolute wrong direction.

[oldy41 61]

Did I miss the point or is it still unclear, whether current dev branch AI does include the improvements applied before release?

And if not, can we hope to get them back with one of the next updates?

[relain 1]

Hi there,

I did the last days some intense A.I behaviour testing. One part of the test is: How many meters can I walk up in direct line of sight, before the A.I. reacts.

I place a 1 (!) A.I Soldier (Opfor, Rifleman, 100% Skill, 12:00 high noon, clear weather) on the Stratis AF, there is a road close to the military training course. I place a player on the other end of the straight road, around 280 meter away. I walk in upright stance (press W, normal speed) until the A.I Rifleman engages. The Rifleman does have a clear line of sight all the time.

I get following results:

Engagement Distance

211,66 Average

211 m (Trial 1)

217 m (Trial 2)

207 m (Trial 3)

After that, I did the same test - only 1 parameter changed: I placed the A.I. Rifleman on the runway at Stratis AF. And now the strange thing happen: The A.I start to engage me around 398 Meters away.

Does someone of you A.I. Specialists have an idea, why I can walk up till 211 meters in avarage on the straight road while I can't do it on the runway?

The only difference I am aware of: The background is more complex (houses in the back) and there is a minimal height difference (1 Meter) on the road.

PS: Funny thing: A.I Rifleman can't hit me at ~400 distance. The A.I. empties the mags without sucess.

Edited September 29, 2013 by relain

[maturin 12]

The runway ground surface probably has a very low camouflage value. You just can't hide on it.

As for the AI not being able to hit at 400m, what are your settings?

AI on both sides spent the whole last mission getting first and second round hits with iron sights and collimators at 400-550m.

[relain 1]

Thanks maturin,

for pointing out at the camoflage value. I wasn't aware there is something like this. But: With a clear line of sight the camoflage value of the ground (road vs. runway) should not have a big influence on the engagement distance. Is the ARMA A.I. Engine comparing the background color with the color of the clothes/uniform to come up with a camoflage value? How does it work?

For 400 Meter distance: Both flat on the belly - A.I couldn't hit me on the AF runway. Settings: 100% Skill, rest standard (Standard OPFOR Rifleman). If I stand upright the AI will need an average of 11 Bullets and around 9-14 secounds to take me out under the same test settings.

[fabrizio_t 58]

Did I miss the point or is it still unclear, whether current dev branch AI does include the improvements applied before release?

And if not, can we hope to get them back with one of the next updates?

I would know that as well.

It's weird, but looks to me that AI still misses the CQB improvements introduced weeks ago.

[Robalo 465]

PS: Funny thing: A.I Rifleman can't hit me at ~400 distance. The A.I. empties the mags without sucess.

What weapon/sight was the AI using ?

The funny thing is, at 400m with iron sights at max zoom on my 1600x900 resolution I couldn't even pick out a soldier on a runway, let alone hit it in a real scenario.

[-Coulum- 35]

It's weird, but looks to me that AI still misses the CQB improvements introduced weeks ago.

Must say I don't see the same ai I did before release. I remember that the ai were almost super human in their ability to snap to a target but when they did their initial shots were often inaccurate but they would soon hit you after.

Now the ai is able to turn fast enough to keep up with a target but they are still slow and often their first or second shot hits fatally.

I personally preferred the former, because although the insta 360 isn't so realistic per say, it is on par with the player's abilities and the inaccurate spraying is much more like a human response upon being surprised at close range.

Is the ARMA A.I. Engine comparing the background color with the color of the clothes/uniform to come up with a camoflage value? How does it work?

I only wish. As far as I know the ai only takes into account the speed at which you moving, the terrain type your on, the type of unit you are and what stance your in. It seems that all these things are kind of like multipliers of the distance you will be spotted from. If yourwithin LOS and the distance specified for X number of seconds you're spotted.

Of course these are just my own guesses, not concrete fact.

But I am fairly certain ai doesn't really take into account things like shadows, partial concealment, background "noise" and breaking or hiding your silhouette. If you think your safe because your hiding at the back of a dark room looking through a small hole in the opposite wall and not moving a muscle, you are going to end up dead. Its why the ai seems so terminator like in complex terrains (forests, jumbled urban areas with rubble etc.) and seems blind when your out in the open with little concealment. Camoflauge values for each terrain type can only do so much. A step towards making things better might be making nearby objects that might confuse a humans vision(trees rocks bushes), also add to the camoflauge of a unit.

[jgaz-uk 132]

Still not adjustable on Dedicated. SP & hosting you can turn down AI but Dedicated not yet. & you have still to hit them time & time again to kill

[Bouben 3]

Can somebody from BIS please clarify if we already have all pre-release AI fixes or not?

A lot of people obviously want to know. Thank you!

[bad benson 1733]

Can somebody from BIS please clarify if we already have all pre-release AI fixes or not?

A lot of people obviously want to know. Thank you!

^+1 it can't be that hard. it's a simple question with no possible drama or anything. just a simple passing of information. please!

[relain 1]

I only wish. As far as I know the ai only takes into account the speed at which you moving, the terrain type your on, the type of unit you are and what stance your in. It seems that all these things are kind of like multipliers of the distance you will be spotted from. If yourwithin LOS and the distance specified for X number of seconds you're spotted.

Of course these are just my own guesses, not concrete fact.

But I am fairly certain ai doesn't really take into account things like shadows, partial concealment, background "noise" and breaking or hiding your silhouette. If you think your safe because your hiding at the back of a dark room looking through a small hole in the opposite wall and not moving a muscle, you are going to end up dead. Its why the ai seems so terminator like in complex terrains (forests, jumbled urban areas with rubble etc.) and seems blind when your out in the open with little concealment. Camoflauge values for each terrain type can only do so much. A step towards making things better might be making nearby objects that might confuse a humans vision(trees rocks bushes), also add to the camoflauge of a unit.

I did intensive tests with the K.I (will up videos asap) regarding spotting ability and engagement distance. There is, as far as I found out, no difference between camos. The test results are the same for the gilli suit, standard uniform with camo pattern und underwear - the K.I will spot you pretty consistent at the same distance. But, I will do more testing and post the results here.

---------- Post added at 08:40 ---------- Previous post was at 08:26 ----------

What weapon/sight was the AI using ?

The funny thing is, at 400m with iron sights at max zoom on my 1600x900 resolution I couldn't even pick out a soldier on a runway, let alone hit it in a real scenario.

Yep, shooting at this range is a lot of guess work, because the dot from the reflector sight is bigger than the target. :) The A.I. uses a reflector sight - no magnification. Obviously the A.I. should move closer or break the contact instead of empty the mags without hitting the target. The A.I. in ARMA3 at the current state is a major step back compared to the ARMA2 OA A.I regarding combat movement.

My tests showed: With the current dev build - if you shoot close to the A.I, the A.I will start a 360° Scan movement (Standing!), if the A.I spotted you, it will start to engage. It will kneel down, shoot around 5 rounds. After that it will lay down and engage until the mags are empty or the target is down. No use of cover, no use of smoke, no use of "fire & move" tactics.