Syria - What should we do if anything?

[Lauxman 10]

Bomb the government forces until they surrender to the rebels.

Then bomb the rebels until they're crippled if they don't like the West.

[oxmox 73]

Bomb the government forces until they surrender to the rebels.

Then bomb the rebels until they're crippled if they don't like the West.

Sounds like a just for fun bombing :rolleyes:

[Lauxman 10]

Those are the best kind. We'll need to test how effective our regular bombing campaigns work under the demands of sequestration.

[Placebo 29]

Thread cleaned up, any further ignorance of the forum rules and this thread will be closed.

[batto 17]

Free Syrian Allah Army (note al Qaeda flags):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIFFFn-Iw9s

[scrim 1]

We probably should've started bombing like 2 years ago, before the "Allahu Akhbar" crowd grew so awfully big over there. So, do we pick malaria or the Black Death?

[sudayev 27]

An except of what normal people think of what's happening in Syria and who's behind it. Some sort of inconvenient truth aired on the Australian TV.

Full tv debate

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

Syria Girl / Mimi al-Lahan may appear normal to some - she is in fact, another tinfoil hat nutjob with her own NWO/Zionist plot/False Flag bullshit YouTube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/SyrianGirlpartisan

Not that I'm taking sides here - really don't care either way. Just thought some context was required.

[On_Sabbatical 11]

An except of what normal people think of what's happening in Syria and who's behind it. Some sort of inconvenient truth aired on the Australian TV.

Thanks sudayev for sharing ^^

---------- Post added at 01:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:43 AM ----------

Syria Girl / Mimi al-Lahan may appear normal to some - she is in fact, another tinfoil hat nutjob with her own NWO/Zionist plot/False Flag bullshit YouTube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/SyrianGirlpartisan

Not that I'm taking sides here - really don't care either way. Just thought some context was required.

Bullshit is everywhere and truth is cut into pieces and spread everywhere ... once you will start using brain,you will be able to see it !

And yes those fanatics are funded by someone who wants to harm the country unless you think those are average syrian people ... and btw, how can you explain the fact that an Israeli fighter bombed a syrian military facility inside without anyone blaming them ,not even the syrian governement ?

[oxmox 73]

UN official: There are strong suspicions Syrian rebels used sarin gas.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/06/world/meast/syria-civil-war/?hpt=hp_t1

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22424188

I always thought why would the Assad regime use poison gas if they know that it would be a political and military suicide crossing this "red line". They are under heavy pressure from the UNO, USA and other nations. It would be dumb to use chemical weapons to provoke a military intervention. Only days before there were suspicions that the Assad regime used gas, its just interesting that suddenly rebels are suspected.

This is a problem for Israel since they want to avoid that islamists, which are a part of the rebels, get hands on chemical weapons. Seems like coalition/UN slowly back away from syrian rebels, at least in this case.

Edited May 6, 2013 by oxmox

[Tonci87 163]

UN official: There are strong suspicions Syrian rebels used sarin gas.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/06/world/meast/syria-civil-war/?hpt=hp_t1

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22424188

I always thought why would the Assad regime use poison gas if they know that it would be a political and military suicide crossing this "red line". They are under heavy pressure from the UNO, USA and other nations. It would be dumb to use chemical weapons to provoke a military intervention.

This is a problem for Israel since they want to avoid that islamists, which are a part of the rebels, get hands on chemical weapons.

That´s exactly what I was thinking. The military knows tha they are in deep shit if they would use that stuff. The rebels on the other hand can use it and then blame the military to provoke foreign intervention.

[kireta21 13]

That's not even that.

Syrian army have working chain of command, usage of nerve gas would require clearence likely all way from presidental level. If goverment would start using sarin or anything similar, that would suggest they're either desperate and have nothing to lose, or Goverment and it's military's chain of command already fell apart, and generals can do whatever they want without fear of any consequences.

On the other hand, rebels have many factions within, even if most woudn't even consider usage of gas, it's very possible some of them would go rouge and use nerve gas if given chance. Or trade it on black market for normal weapons.

"No proof" gas attacks might be in fact test run to see how others will react if gas is used. If reaction will be as is now (hot air), it will mean it's safe to use it on wide scale. What more, both side might use it in flase flag attacks as part of propaganda war.

What a mess.

[scrim 1]

It was probably one of the AQ groups that did it if it happened. They're the ones who'd be extreme enough to do it, and they've made attempts at chemical warfare in the past, e.g. in Iraq.

[spooky lynx 73]

I'm shocked that Mrs. Del Ponte had been permitted to say this words...

[NoRailgunner 0]

How easy is it to develop, produce and deploy weapons of mass destruction? Guess US/UK had already their own experience with finding proof/evidences of WMD's - see Iraq War. Now who is going to judge it only by photos/videos and hearsay? Who is going to win the war of propaganda and misinformations??

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

I'm shocked that Mrs. Del Ponte had been permitted to say this words...

She said it during an informal TV interview. Strange though, as investigating the use of chemical weapons isn't her job and the UN IICISyria group contradicted what she said later in the day.

“The Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic (IICISyria) wishes to clarify that it has not reached conclusive findings as to the use of chemical weapons in Syria by any parties to the conflict. As a result, the Commission is not in a position to further comment on the allegations at this time,â€

So what to make of it? Who knows?

[ProfTournesol 956]

So what to make of it? Who knows?

Dunno but that's not good at all, hope it won't involve directly Israel and Iran against each other.

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

Dunno but that's not good at all, hope it won't involve directly Israel and Iran against each other.

Well it will not be over this suspected chemical weapons incident as it doesn't involve either, so???

[oxmox 73]

I'm shocked that Mrs. Del Ponte had been permitted to say this words...

haha.....:bounce3:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/06/syria-us-no-evidence-rebels-sarin

US casts doubt on claim Syrian rebels may have used sarin gas.

"We are highly sceptical of any suggestions that the opposition used chemical weapons," said White House spokesman Jay Carney. "We think it highly likely that Assad regime was responsible but we have to be sure about the facts before we make any decisions about a response."

But the UN's Syria investigators appeared to row back on del Ponte's remarks on Monday, saying there was thus far "no conclusive proof" that either side in the Syria conflict had used chemical weapons.

President Obama is coming under growing pressure in Washington from Congress to take action in Syria.

Defence experts in Washington said the strikes showed that US fears about Syrian air defences may need to be reassessed.

On Friday, UK defence secretary Philip Hammond admitted western intelligence services would probably have to wait for a further chemical attack before gathering enough information

"Israel's success does indicate that the purely military risks in enforcing some form of no fly or no move zone are now more limited that when the fighting in Syria began,"

Honestly...what a Punch and Judy show. :803:

Edited May 6, 2013 by oxmox

[scrim 1]

Who knows what happened? And besides, there's a damn good reason not to trust everything that comes out of the UN, as it can often be third world regime propaganda, due to there being many of those in the UN. Sort of like how countries such as Libya were heading the UN human rights council and essentially used it together with other Arab states to spam Israel with more complaints than any other nation in the world has recieved from said council...

[wipman 1]

I think that what should be made is to help to defeat those so called "rebels", they're nothing but islamo-faszists and should be exterminated. There're other "conventional" methods of defeat a dictatorial regime as the sirian regime that don't require to use islamo-faszists; they should have had learnt the lesson from when they'd overthrow the persian Sha in Iran, the thing is what they want. A better (friendly) country...?, or a bigger (another) enemy country?, seems that they're suming NME countrys as a common front, a bigger NME... more radical islamist countrys (islamo-faszists) 'em all ruled by the shariah and working as a whole to put the capitalist world on it's knees.

This is all my opinion, but i think that what we never should do, is... to help our enemys; someone who wants to apply the shariah, in my country, in your country or anywhere else is my enemy and enemy of all what's good. We should exterminate those so called "rebels".

[oxmox 73]

Yesterday, I saw a discussion on TV and one was a famous german journalist who stayed in Syria for longer to produce a documentary. He got wounded from bullets recently. He did say that for example the town "Aleppo" is completely in Jihadist hands. They established 5 sharia courts and the daily life is based on the law of sharia. Their aim is to change Syria, it is actually the last and only secular state in this region, into an islamic state. These are sunnites and these rebels get support from Saudi Arabia and other sunni countries like Qatar.

He said aswell that there is shortage with important goods i.e. medicine and there is the question where the hundred of millions $ did go from the western world for humanitarian help. It probably trickles away...into which hands and for what.

At the end he did repeat what was said already months ago, some arabic countries but aswell the west is interested to weaken the shia-axe Iran-Syria-Lebanon.

Its a farce in my opinion, in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan western coalition troops are fighting Islamists/Jihadists and in Syria they get support. This is hypocritical. Not to mention what will happen with the Christians when such people get into power, many of them did flee from Islamists (its an interesting question if they are sunnis or shias) in Iraq.

@Scrim

The UN holds aswell third nation countries but the major influence have different powerfull countries. Do you remember the case with Hans Blix and the result ? Well, I was giggling about the obvious rethoric in this article I did post and the message that they would need to wait another gas attack to find more evidence.

Edited May 9, 2013 by oxmox

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

@oxmox

Not very worldy wise or factually accurate?

Syria is 75% Sunni - if the majority of that country wish to live their lives a certain way, why shouldn't they?

One thing you can't expect everyone to believe is that all those people are Jihadists, it's simply not true.

Also, Sharia law and courts are established in dozens of countries across the world:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_of_sharia_by_country

The West tends to fight for priciples not against peoples - just because they may disagree with the Taliban in Afghanistan (a minority Sunni sect which most Sunni muslims there do not support) does not mean the West will fight Sunni's wherever they find them. They worked closely with Sunni's in Iraq to try and stop persecution by the Shia Majority after the collapse of Al-Qaeda in Iraq. The Americans and Sunnis had a very good working relationship in the end. The insurgency changed over time from Sunni to extremist Shia with support from Iran. That is where Bush and chums made their initial error - they assumed Iraqis were Iraqis 1st - they aren't.

If the future Sunni majority government in Syria ends up exporting terrorism etc or failing to deal with extremists, criticism/a military spanking by the West is assured, don't worry about that.

It's complicated but if you do a little more reading and research the light bulb will soon switch on. What you may find is that this Sunni / Shia war will spread across that region with perhaps the borders of Syria / Lebanon / Iraq being redrawn across ethnic lines. A lot of people are going to die but it's their argument and there isn't much anyone can do about it.

Iran and Russia are supplying weapons, troops and aid to prop up a corrupt minority dictatorship - the West will never support that and therefore aid the other side (no weapons tho yet).

It was assumed by someone in another thread that Western oil was selling it's interests in the region because of Low-Energy-Nuclear-Reaction technology. It's not that at all - a regional war is on the way and they know it.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari

[ProfTournesol 956]

It would be extremely caricatural to say that the Sunni rebels are muslim "Jihadists" or terrorists, as well as to say that Shia Assad regime is defending the religious minorities (such as the Christians or Druzes) against them.

But it's true that the lack of international support to the "secular" opponents (among which were several Shias and Christians too) in their fight against the organized Assad's Army gave a lot of legitimacy and power to the extremist factions supported by Saudi Arabia or Qatar, and now it turns into a regional war between Shias and Sunnis. Who seriously thinks that Shias movements backed by Assad and Iran aren't "terrorists" too ? How many terrorist actions were supported by Iran and Assad in Lebanon ?

[oxmox 73]

@oxmox

Not very worldy wise or factually accurate?

Syria is 75% Sunni - if the majority of that country wish to live their lives a certain way, why shouldn't they?

One thing you can't expect everyone to believe is that all those people are Jihadists, it's simply not true.

Also, Sharia law and courts are established in dozens of countries across the world:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_of_sharia_by_country

The West tends to fight for priciples not against peoples - just because they may disagree with the Taliban in Afghanistan (a minority Sunni sect which most Sunni muslims there do not support) does not mean the West will fight Sunni's wherever they find them. They worked closely with Sunni's in Iraq to try and stop persecution by the Shia Majority after the collapse of Al-Qaeda in Iraq. The Americans and Sunnis had a very good working relationship in the end. The insurgency changed over time from Sunni to extremist Shia with support from Iran. That is where Bush and chums made their initial error - they assumed Iraqis were Iraqis 1st - they aren't.

If the future Sunni majority government in Syria ends up exporting terrorism etc or failing to deal with extremists, criticism/a military spanking by the West is assured, don't worry about that.

It's complicated but if you do a little more reading and research the light bulb will soon switch on. What you may find is that this Sunni / Shia war will spread across that region with perhaps the borders of Syria / Lebanon / Iraq being redrawn across ethnic lines. A lot of people are going to die but it's their argument and there isn't much anyone can do about it.

Iran and Russia are supplying weapons, troops and aid to prop up a corrupt minority dictatorship - the West will never support that and therefore aid the other side (no weapons tho yet).

It was assumed by someone in another thread that Western oil was selling it's interests in the region because of Low-Energy-Nuclear-Reaction technology. It's not that at all - a regional war is on the way and they know it.

Not many western Journalists were recently in Syria. This is a very small number. Most of the infos you read in the newspapers are from humanitarian organisiations of the opposition groups i.e. in London. ....thats why it is interesting to hear what someone says who actually did set a step into the country and stayed for longer instead of making phone calls.

I did not write that this Journalist claim everyone is a Jihadist , not sure where you read this. The town "Alleppo" is in Jihadist hands. Islamists dont ask you if you want to live with such a world view. Too many examples, Afghanistan and the Taliban is just one of it. Yes, all over the world sharia courts exist. You will find some even in Great Britain.

There are struggles and fights already between the different types of opposition groups in syria. The Kurds are involved aswell, with their own interests.

We had enough "spanking", intervene and influence from our western world in our history which often did result in a blowback. There is time to start to worry, except you want to see the neverending story.

The west and other of the major players do not fight only for principles, that would be to easy explained and just only half of the story.

Interests play a role.

It would be extremely caricatural to say that the Sunni rebels are muslim "Jihadists" or terrorists, as well as to say that Shia Assad regime is defending the religious minorities (such as the Christians or Druzes) against them.

The Assad regime and most of people with power in this country exist mainly of Alawites and not Shia, which got into power due colonial influence. Sunnis represent with almost 90% the majority of the muslims in the world. Of course not all opposition groups are Jihadists/Islamists, but they gain more influence. There are quarrels between the different opposition groups.

Edited May 9, 2013 by oxmox