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Syria - What should we do if anything?

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Mmm... that's far from being true. See what's happening in Tunisia today. People being arrested and forced to wear islamic scarf at their trial. As long as Sharia will be the rule, democracy won't prevail. Thanks god, Arab countries do have a lot of young educated people, i just hope they will be more successful than the Iranian ones a few years ago. Let's hope that the so called Arab spring isn't only a come back to middle age and obscurancy.

You're making of an exception a general rule ... what's happening in Tunisia is illegal and those guys need to be judged ! because they have no rights in doing that ,it has nothing to do with the religion itself ... it's clear in the quran anyway : "Whos wants to believe ,he can and who doesn't he can too" ... just stop making misleading propaganda about something you barely know about,or trying to simplify a very complex society by a bunch of biased assumptions !

The arab's spring main goal from my point of view is to make arabs fight each other so the neo-imperialism can prevail in the middle east! so yes ,just expect more fanatism and more violence sadly !

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That's what one part of the Quran says. If we're going to start quoting single phrases and make them represent everything of the Quran, we could go ahead and quote the part about "finding every infidel and killing them", it just doesn't work. Or the practical part, where Jews and Christians living under Muslim rule certainly were officially allowed to keep their religion, but had to pay "protection" taxes, unless they felt like having the family beheaded.

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good vs bad side in war was last time in 1945

When it comes to the war time events itself, I doubt there was a pure "good side". Axis and Allies did do terrible things.

Well, for me it was interesting to hear the time and amount of the allegedly sarin gas victims. Its a difference if 100-150 people die at once or within a year. What I didnt know is the fact, that actually chemicals like tear gas did kill people in other muslim countries during the riots. It could be that such stronger tear gas was used in Syria aswell, but these are of course speculations. The sarin gas story based on blood samples, at least what is told in the media, seems rather build on sand without more authentical details/facts and leads rather to thoughts that this is an excuse for a military intervention.

Edited by oxmox

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When it comes to the war time events itself, I doubt there was a pure "good side". Axis and Allies did do terrible things.

.

of course there was good side,

the most important is WHO started and invaded first, revenge is virtue so no matter of costs it makes to punish those who invaded and crossed border of other nation's border , the one who starts and invades other country is bad, and the one who defend and take revenge is good simply (although it compicates in modern world with religious terrorism )

problem of internal wars in Middle East is unsolvable, cause there is no invader ,

all revolutions in world against "evil dicature of king, tsar, presidents, general" could be called good, problem is when there is revolution of "middle age wanna be guys" and "civilised dictator",

if it was "economic reasons revolt, riots" i would support it with all my heart, but in case when i see what one religion brings to others, than my heart is not with such side of conflict cause it is like letting ultra-catholics to power, if in my country ultra-catholics (whom are 5% or 10% of society) would rule, than they would forbid me to listen to metal music, forbid porn movies, forbid eating meat in Friday (only eat fish in Friday) and i would have to marry girls i met in my lifetime, and contraception would be forbidden (and other sexual technics, cause for example on catholics forums they say that oral sex is evil and cannot be make, if they would be in power, in every home there would be camera controlling the way people sleep with each other, thats why religious freaks must stay away of power, i remember politician in Poland who wanted to ban "everything what woman could use to masturbate including cucumbers and bananas because masturbation is a sin and this hole is made by god to give birth" - such guy should be kept in asylum/madhouse, not in parliament )

in my country i have maybe 5% of such mad people, in Middle East sometimes you have 60% and it is huge problem , they lack of education, they do not learn biology, math, they learn only Quoran and whole their knowledge is from one book , not from observation how other people on globe live

Edited by vilas

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I have a different opinion about it. Revenge doesnt mean you have to use contemptible options like your foe which you blame for unmoral ethics and crimes. Revenge should not mean to have a free ticket to do something with similar methods.

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in my country i have maybe 5% of such mad people, in Middle East sometimes you have 60% and it is huge problem , they lack of education, they do not learn biology, math, they learn only Quoran and whole their knowledge is from one book , not from observation how other people on globe live

Man,i don't know where you got this from ^^ , stop watching TV too much it disables brains and will most likely prevent you from travelling to those countries and see how educated are people there

but had to pay "protection" taxes, unless they felt like having the family beheaded.

Taxes yes,but were forced to leave if they couldn't or didn't want because they can't protect them ! and it's not stated in the book ^^ ... concerning killing infidels where you find them;it's taken from a phrase that talks about war against the infidels :D ! that's even stupid,because why forcing infidels to pay taxes when you need to kill them when you find them :P

But,again ,it's better that we stay on topic ... this has nothing to do with Syria ! if you're an a***** ,it doesn't matter whether you are a religious or not ! and those politicians out there are a living proof of that !

Edited by On_Sabbatical

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Meanwhile glorious Syrian Army is doing a good job by cleaning their country from Al-Qaeda terrorists and their western world friends:

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@villas does this mean 'The Vagina Monologues' can now be classed as WMD?

hehe, what about pork ham sandwitch in French bus ?

if you not know , google : France: Attacked by two Muslims because he was eating a ham sandwich, i wonder how long we must wait in our over-tollerant Europe till someone behead us for pork ham sandwitch on our own ground or cross on neckle (a lot of Christians wear cross on neck not even mentioning other type of crosses like Guns'n Roses tshirts ) to do something with, moreover - those attackers felt "offended" because guy was eating ham sandwich, they feel "victims" when they see someone eating pork and cannot slaughter him ,

Edited by vilas

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Hi guys, Found this little video on youtube while looking at some battlefootage from syria, its a bunch off "rebels" that are having a firefight in a ally, and they are showing off some off their new weapons like a M16A2(i think)with a round drum, But the best part is at 0.30 where all off a sudden a forein advisor steps in the frame,

Here is the link;-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7tSpvaWYWk

Now offcource footage cant be confirmed,but a picture tells a Thousand words, watch and see.

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Wearing blue cloths =/= foreign advisor.

Seriously, why would a foreign advisor even be right there? They'd be at places where they'd make a difference equal to the risk of their presence, i.e. in places much further to the rear, training people on weapons, small unit tactics, camouflage and concealment, etc. and coordinating support and other things. Not just standing looking at a few undisciplined militia men exercising their Beirut FO (don't look at target, put AK out, spray entire mag, shout Allah Akhbar to activate increased accuracy perk).

And that M16 would probably originate from Iraq, a country bordering on Syria.

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Now offcource footage cant be confirmed,but a picture tells a Thousand words, watch and see.

How is wearing tactical gear alone enough to claim someone is a foreign advisor?

That particular video is from sectarian clashes that happened quite a while ago in Lebanon, hence the M-16A1... There's tons of western weapons and tacticool/gucci gear available there. Here's a couple of pictures from some of the recent clashes in Lebanon: 1 2

Must be foreign advisors, right? :rolleyes:

Check your sources people. All this conspiritard crap is getting old.

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check this out.......about the chemical warfare in Syria. In some countries a strong type of crowd control gas is used which can lead to death i.e. Bahrain, Egypt, Syria,.....

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/world_news/Middle_East/article1234718.ece

more than 30+ deaths from tear gas in Bahrain

http://physiciansforhumanrights.org/blog/tear-gas-or-lethal-gas.html

http://www.ruigphotography.com/NusraChemicalWeaponsSyria

http://rogueadventurer.com/2013/05/09/alleged-cw-delivery-systems-in-syria-are-more-likely-less-lethal-munitions/

This is the article from "LeMonde" in english, quiete interesting:

http://www.lemonde.fr/proche-orient/article/2013/05/27/chemical-war-in-syria_3417708_3218.html

Well, of course Sarin is something different and it is one of the most deadly gas in the world.....lets see what infos they will deliver on the next G8 meeting.

Yesterday, one of the german main newspapers did release an article with new infos about sarin gas used in syria and the slim evidence about it. Some of the infos remind me on this older post here.

*Alleged Sarin could be sedatives

* very low level of Sarin found

* grenade (white one) plays a key role

* experts: with these results we do not know much

http://tinyurl.com/p5knk7c (google translated)

http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article117881245/Die-Beweise-fuer-den-Einsatz-von-Giftgas-sind-duenn.html (original in german language)

Edited by oxmox

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It's nonsense and wishfull thinking from beginning to end oxmox. The journalist could have checked his facts with a biochemist, but then there wouldn't be a story.

There are several different tests for Sarin and the most telling involve tests on the enzyme cholinesterase. Sarin bonds with the enzyme and changes it chemically in a way that "bug-spray"/pesticides don't, and sedatives don't do that at all, they work on receptors in the central nervous system. The amount of sarin found, or the amount of characteristic damage caused in the blood doesn't have any bearing apart from indicating the level of exposure.

The talk of a chemical weapons factory at Al-Safira is also very suspect. There is a Chlorine factory there owned by the Syrian-Saudi Chemicals Company (SYSACCO). Assad propaganda warned that rebels might be in posession of 'toxic chlorine' after they overan Al-Safira but describing it as a chemical weapons factory is probably wrong as well.

What the white canister is I don't know, perhaps they fired tear gas at the same time to cover the use of Sarin or the canisters were refilled with it? It all amounts to speculation. The key is the tested samples, specifically the effect on cholinesterase. Alfred Hackensberger of Die Welt - bullshit, check your facts.

Edited by Mattar_Tharkari

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Had some troubles with my account so these news are a bit out of date but never the less these are really Good News! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10198632/Syria-disillusioned-rebels-drift-back-to-take-Assad-amnesty.html. Finally people began to understand that illegal actions and listening to western instigators won't bring them peace and prosperity but will bring extremists to their country who will degrade their country to middleages. Like it happened in Libya and Egypt.

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Eh, am I the only person who thinks it's really strange how some people seem to have gotten this idea that the regime was behind the WMD attack? I mean seriously, nothing of it makes sense that way. I'm not saying I'd put it beyond Assad, but why would the regime, now when it clearly has the upper hand and has turned things around to the degree where it looks like they'll win within maybe a year or two, launch a very small scale chemical attack, which due to its small size will not have an impact justifying its use, even when you don't take into regard the fact that using the chemical weapons could very well equal Tomahawk missiles galore, no fly zones, bombings, stepped up support of the opposition, etc.?

The most ironic thing is how the two Western leaders pushing this the most are A, Obama, who for some strange reason has a Nobel Peace Award, criticized Bush for making up weird things about WMDs and going to war, and went on to run for office on the promise that he would pull the nation out of wars, and B, Kerry, who ran for office, criticizing Bush for lying about WMDs to justify military intervention, criticized him for going to war, and said he'd get the nation out of its wars.

Now both of them are standing there shouting like out right clowns about "the Syrian regime did this and that with WMDs, we have proof, but we won't show it, and now we want to go to another war based on said proof about WMDs, which we won't show you. Tomahawks away Biggles!"

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Yep, the situation seems quite complex. I seriously doubt the Syrian opposition would be able to make such a massive and organized attack (on its own population), but the way i see it for the moment, is that Assad is trying to involve more directly his so called allies in the conflict, mainly Iran, in reaction to a possible Western intervention. He's aware he won't be able to win on his own, even if massively supported by Lebanese Hezbollah, and that the only way out is to obtain a partition of the country, with Iran help.

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it might be completely unrelated party ... there is not just Syria and Rebels ...

some may want NATO (USA/EU) to get driven into another 'ill fated' conflict w/o winners

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There's no any irony about Obama&Kerry's words, they can say everything about their rivals at elections just for getting the voices. And it dors not matter that their words will have any value after elections.

Oh and it's pleasant to see that more people here start thinking that Assad is not just mad dictator and things are more complex than it is told by media.

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Thought this video is quite interesting. This was hosted on LiveLeak 1 year ago showing what appears to be rebel groups (not 100% conclusive) testing chemical on Rabbits. The beginning shows bottles of Potassium Permanganate which could potentially damage the nervous system. I'm not saying this was what was used since UN has not released results from inspection yet. Safety Sheet on Potassium Permanganate

Disclaimer - I'm not jumping to any conclusion/blaming a specific side of the conflict. Just thought this is quite relevant to the recent gas attack.

Warning! Video below may be perceived as Disturbing, watch at your own risk. Mods/Admins please delete if inappropriate. NSFW

Edited by JeffersPang

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I wonder that this video hasn't been more widely known, yet. I watched a few days after it was released and it showed once again that these "rebels" are nothing more than terrorists. Media does a really good job creating their own story, it seems.

But some people may see a sharia introduced by foreign islamic mercenaries as total peace and freedom; it's impressive how free the population in terrorist controlled areas already is. Executions for so called blasphemy, sharia law, thugs stealing and murdering, european converts and islamists together executing women in public for sleeping with SAA Soldiers. The poor population that was so oppressed under Assad is totally free now, thanks to (again) NATO and foreign backers.

I for one always felt welcome in Syria and in a normal, open-minded, stable country which had together with Israel, the far best treatment of minorities, which will, under sharia law, become so free that we are never gonna hear of them again.

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Very true Brain, look at those other country's that have been "liberated" like Iraq,libia, or the ones that get attacked by both sides like yemen or pakistan, or where there was a "revolution" that kicked other dictators/leaders on their ass, and yet in not one off these countries the situation got better, complete opposite is more like it.

I dont say they where all angels,but some did do good things for their ppl, and its not like they all trew wishleblowers in jail for 35years,use their security services to spy on every thing and everybody, use their para-military police to raid homes for open warrants/tickets/unpaid bills and loans,or going around the world like they own the place.

I wonder who will benefit from this again and who if not all of us will suffer from it(Again)!!!

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Thought this video is quite interesting. This was hosted on LiveLeak 1 year ago showing what appears to be rebel groups (not 100% conclusive) testing chemical on Rabbits. The beginning shows bottles of Potassium Permanganate which could potentially damage the nervous system. I'm not saying this was what was used since UN has not released results from inspection yet. Safety Sheet on Potassium Permanganate

Disclaimer - I'm not jumping to any conclusion/blaming a specific side of the conflict. Just thought this is quite relevant to the recent gas attack.

Warning! Video below may be perceived as Disturbing, watch at your own risk. Mods/Admins please delete if inappropriate. NSFW

Well that's clearly a propaganda video designed to fool the stupid - science is no longer popular at school but anyone who has studied would be able to tell you that:

1. Potassium permanganate can't damage the nervous system, Sarin doesn't contain Potassium.

2. You can't make Sarin precursors in a glass beaker over a bunsen flame ROFL. The Hydrofluoric acid used in the process corrodes glass.

3. The store cupboard shown there doesn't contain the correct chemicals for precursor production.

4. If they were actually cooking up Sarin in that kitchen the lack of appropriate protective clothing would result in unconsciousness and death in minutes. You would need a possitive pressure suit and oxygen supply if you were handling Sarin and some of the precursors in a room like that, a respirator isn't enough, the guy in the video is wearing a raincoat and a paper dust mask like you use for protection during DIY jobs around the home.

5. My best guess is that the rabbits were killed by hydrogen cyanide, it's easy to make and the death looks similar. Of course you can't see them turn blue with all that fur lol. They are clearly adding a liquid (probably HCl, shown in large bottles) to a powder that is likely a cyanide salt. The initial white fumes are another indication of HCl.

Edited by Mattar_Tharkari

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Does it change alot on the overall situation? From all the stuff I've seen in videos and first hand reports, if I'd had to choose who I fight for, my decision is definitely clear.

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In the fog of war this situation is all over the place.

I notice that good ole Tony Blair has chimed in with this obvious stance and dragging it back to Iraq war issues with that area, they all come out of the woodwork now there is an angle to pounce upon. I also notice that the retaric now seems to be no matter on actually who did what with what proven its just the trigger to ramp up the inevitable that always was.

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