Opinions on manual gun cocking?

[maddogx 13]

I like the idea on the whole, but don't agree with the suggestion to make it dependent on the difficulty setting. Individual option: yes. But don't allow the server to override it.

Otherwise it will just create an inconsistent behaviour of the fire button (i.e. left click) on different servers, and this will only cause frustration.

[Daniel 0]

Agreed with MadDogX; have a good enough justification for adding it and apply it across the board.

[spotter001 82]

For snipers/bolt action rifles/shotguns users would be a dream to have that

would u mind being more specific on why it would be a dream to have it? not that i don't like it but, u know, i think we can live without it...and i hardly see it as a dream wish.

[dragon01 902]

Have you ever fired a pump-action shotgun in real life? Manual cocking in that case would not only be realistic, but also really, really cool. Nothing puts a better accent on whatever you just said than a distinctive "CHA-CHINK" of a shotgun chambering a round. Not to mention the psychological effect of doing that can't be underestimated. One police officer got a criminal to surrender just by working the slide of his shotgun. If BIS gets AI to actually simulate psychological warfare, this is definitely something to consider. I guess that pretty much the same might apply to lever action shotguns and rifles, though I never fired one and they aren't as widespread as pump action (hence less stories involving them), so I don't know.

For bolt action rifles, I guess it's also a matter of there being something inherently cool about working the bolt of a large, heavy rifle. Not to mention there are silenced weapons which could really use that, as cycling their action is actually louder than the shot itself (Welrod, for example, I guess plenty of Spetznaz silenced guns could also qualify).

[sgtice 10]

If it's going to be ingame it should be forced. It's not a whole lot to ask everyone to play with the same set of rules. It's unfair however to do ask them to do it differently.

[Flogger23m 2]

It worked great in RO. If you needed to switch to a sidearm or grenade quickly, you could do so without having to work the action of your rifle. I would like to see this feature.

[twisted 128]

it would be really nice to have it - and while not complicated would add another aspect to the gameplay.

[dragon01 902]

Funny how two pools on the same thing get completely different results.

I agree though, the system from Red Orchestra sounds much better than using a separate button. Not having played RO, I didn't thought it could be done like that.

[Panda_pl 0]

If you shoot me by accident because you thought you forgot to cycle your rifle I will be mad regardless. Had that happen with people using medics or ammobox.

I think RO way is inferior anyway, since normal games just allow you to interrupt the reloading if you want to meele or sprint.

RO suffers from lack of compexity, so introducing more complication makes it better by adding to skill ceiling. Arma overloads players with tasks as it is.

[jhoson14 10]

I would like manual bolting for sniper rifles, with a good bolt animation.

But let it be a option to be turned on or off.

[dragon01 902]

If you shoot me by accident because you thought you forgot to cycle your rifle I will be mad regardless. Had that happen with people using medics or ammobox.

Well, ArmA is a simulator, so I'm not against encouraging players to simulate muzzle discipline (i.e. Don't point your weapon at thing you don't want to shoot:)).

Pointing the barrel away from friendlies when cycling your weapon is a very good habit, also useful in real life.

[gossamersolid 155]

If you put it as an option (Like in RO2), I don't see the issue in it. I'd personally use manual cocking because it makes you feel that much more bawsss.

[Flogger23m 2]

I think RO way is inferior anyway, since normal games just allow you to interrupt the reloading if you want to meele or sprint.

RO suffers from lack of compexity, so introducing more complication makes it better by adding to skill ceiling. Arma overloads players with tasks as it is.

The problem with interruption is that it is not realistic and should have no place in ArmA 3 unless it is done right. For example, if you lock the bolt back and then sprint, the bolt should still be locked back, and you must then pick up where you left off. Interrupting and then having the sequence magically restart or having the rifle magically cycle itself has no place in a simulation and should stay with CoD style games. The issue with doing it properly is that it would make animations much harder.

In the end, the method RO is the best from a gameplay perspective. You can bolt very quickly by double clicking on your mouse regardless. Though it would be nice if there was an option to enable auto or manual bolting, like RO2 has.

[Panda_pl 0]

Interrupting and then having the sequence magically restart

Doesn't quite bother me.

Besides why would you interrupt your reload in Arma? I mean in what situation would that ever happen? We no longer use bolt action rifles for anything other than sniping, a soldier in WW2 had no sidearm and was pushed into fighting CQC with his rifle...

This whole argument seems to me like usual nitpicking and the usual RO talk.

[EDcase 87]

I'd like to see manual cocking of bolt actions and shotguns but NOT with the fire button. Why not press the reload button twice?

[celery 8]

I'd like to see manual cocking of bolt actions and shotguns but NOT with the fire button. Why not press the reload button twice?

Why use a complicated keypress that has a risk of you accidentally reloading the weapon for a simple action that you would be doing every time after you shoot? You can't use the fire button for firing anyway when you need to cycle.

[myshaak 0]

Interesting idea... but is it really necessary? I haven't played RO2 so I don't have any experience how it feels game-wise, but I am against it, because to me it feels just like an unnecessary gimmick. It may contribute to the immersion to some players, but I think it will confuse the rest and especially the newcomers, who would be struggling to play the game anyway.

Make it optional, you say? I am against this too, because it's much more game-changing (than, for example, third person view) to be optional. What about the AI? And what about MP? Server-forced?

TL;DR: Unnecessary and potentially harmful/confusing. When it comes to adding stuff/control to weapons, I'd rather see bipod deployment than this.

[PuFu 4600]

Interesting idea... but is it really necessary? I haven't played RO2 so I don't have any experience how it feels game-wise, but I am against it, because to me it feels just like an unnecessary gimmick.

Make it optional, you say? I am against this too, because it's much more game-changing (than, for example, third person view) to be optional. What about the AI? And what about MP? Server-forced?

how is it more game changing that 3rd person? I mean really?

Besides if you have NO experience with it, how can you be so opinionated?

[maddogx 13]

if you have NO experience with it, how can you be so opinionated?

Hmm, I seem to remember asking myself the same question while reading some other thread.

Ah yes, now I remember where it was: every forum thread on the internet, ever.

[dmarkwick 261]

I'm still not sold on the idea, if the weapon needs to be cocked before it can be used, then it should be done as part of the reload/fire process IMO. I cannot see a benefit to having an extra user input for something that needs to be done regardless.

I mean, what benefit to gameplay is there in NOT cocking your weapon, for example?

[NoRailgunner 0]

BIS could make an ingame menu "minigames" with option to enabled/disable each of them for player/client side only. Or just make a tiny DLC "Immersive MilSim Cocking" for lets say 6,-EUR? ;)

[metalcraze 290]

The idea is good.... As long as it's animated ;)

[myshaak 0]

how is it more game changing that 3rd person? I mean really?

Besides if you have NO experience with it, how can you be so opinionated?

I haven't been to China, yet I can still have an opinion on it based on what I read, can't I? I have read both threads (this one and the previous one, now locked) and based on what I read I really don't think this is something Arma needs. Does me having a different opinion than you makes me a bad person or an opponent to the Arma ideology?

EDIT:

I'm still not sold on the idea, if the weapon needs to be cocked before it can be used, then it should be done as part of the reload/fire process IMO. I cannot see a benefit to having an extra user input for something that needs to be done regardless.

I mean, what benefit to gameplay is there in NOT cocking your weapon, for example?

this.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Myshaak

[celery 8]

I'm still not sold on the idea, if the weapon needs to be cocked before it can be used, then it should be done as part of the reload/fire process IMO. I cannot see a benefit to having an extra user input for something that needs to be done regardless.

I mean, what benefit to gameplay is there in NOT cocking your weapon, for example?

In RO you can do other things such as switching to another weapon sooner if you skip cycling. In this case it wouldn't be so much about benefit to existing gameplay itself as adding it. For instance, early FPS games rarely bothered with reloading, but games like Outlaws and Goldeneye showed that it could be made into a gameplay mechanic that improved the overall experience. Although I generally don't like many of RO's solutions concerning attempts to make the game feel realistic, I really liked the bolt action cycling as it made the difference between bolt-action and semi-automatic rifles concrete.

[dmarkwick 261]

In RO you can do other things such as switching to another weapon sooner if you skip cycling. In this case it wouldn't be so much about benefit to existing gameplay itself as adding it. For instance, early FPS games rarely bothered with reloading, but games like Outlaws and Goldeneye showed that it could be made into a gameplay mechanic that improved the overall experience. Although I generally don't like many of RO's solutions concerning attempts to make the game feel realistic, I really liked the bolt action cycling as it made the difference between bolt-action and semi-automatic rifles concrete.

I got a similar feeling in Hidden & Dangerous 2 but without the extra manual cocking, the difference was one of time between shots and an interrupted view mostly. I have to admit to not having actual experience of playing a game that has manual cocking, but I still don't see it as a viable game feature as it doesn't serve an actual purpose.

The only difference I can think would be beneficial is that I would have the ability to observe the effect of my shot until I decided to cock the weapon. Aside from that, I'm pretty much not bothered for it.