Development Blog & Reveals

[kamping-killoch 16]

I just hope that you aren't REQUIRED to use Steam to download mods. Because I do like Armaholic and I do plan to mod for ArmA3.

Workshop does not monopolize mod use/installation in any game that I'm aware of. It's just an integrated installer not unlike a basic 6U.

[Masharra 10]

Panties in bunches everywhere. People need to man up.

Coulda sworn I heard that same phrase with DR, codww2->cod4+, ra2->ra3, dow to wtfdow.

I thoroughly understand what steam is. It is slowly becoming the only place games are placed on. I personally dont like placing all my eggs in one basket like you guys do. I have been burned by d2d, and I hope we are all burned by steam one day. Sorta in my bad memory way of AT&T 1990's edition.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Masharra

[SirBroud 1]

Split in half? Why?

I use both the Workshop and Nexus for mods. Does it matter where I get them from? Not at all. The workshop has advantages of the Nexus, but I don't care at all where I get my mods from. So if someone decides he doesn't want to use the Workshop, fine. No split, no danger.

If the workshop is really as easy to use as said (haven't used it yet) why should the majority of players use the more complicated armaholic? This means there's no big need anymore to publish your mods on it.

[jefferspang 2]

You can opt to not update the game by going to the Properties and disabling "keep this game up to date". There is a first time setup when the game launches, which is kind of annoying but it is only the first time.

That's exactly what what I detest about Steam. If there isn't Steam, I wouldn't have to take the trouble to Google "how to stop auto updating", navigate my mouse around and uncheck the box to auto update. It's completely unnecessary. If I want to keep my game up to date, I'd manually download it from the game's website, have we reached a stage where we are too retarded to do things for ourselves and instead have a nanny spoon feed us? It's just like those annoying email advertising spam like "GROW YOUR ABS IN 30 DAYS" that has, in the tinest font at the bottom an unsubscribe button and after finding it, you have to meander around confirming your email and then strain eyes trying to figure out the captcha code. My point is this - I never signed up for the Abs program so I shouldn't even be receiving these emails just like how I've never clicked on update my game so I shouldn't expect my game getting patched.

See the Skyrim/Nexus example why this isn't true.

Now I am unfamiliar with this case study but all I know is the follow quote below and although it's not his full post, I don't feel like anything is taken out of context.

... I really hope that I am wrong, but many said that about the "Nexus forums" which hosted Skyrim mods etc until the steam workshop started hosting

user content for the game, then the Nexus forums started dying out, they are only JUST around these days by hosting other mods for other games!

[Sgt.Spoetnik 10]

why should the majority of players use the more complicated armaholic

? how its complicated, never had a easier site to get mods,addons etc.(exept for the other great arma sites)think with steam it will become complicated and tough to get(in my opinion).

[rumpelwicht 1]

Bye then, I guess. No need for me to hang around here anymore :( Saddest day of my life...

I feel your pain...

Congrats BIS:

Edited February 21, 2013 by rumpelwicht

[Jon93 10]

Honestly if you feel that SteamWorks integration is a bad thing then honestly you must have no idea what SteamWorks is.

Simply put it allows all developers to leverage features that would normally be reserved for publishers with big pockets. Things like centralized mod hosting, delta patching, and unified game branches are all really exciting things that we as a community would probably never see if it wasn't for Valve's effort.

The DRM is nothing to worry about, online activation is a fact of life now. You are all online anyways, a one time activation after you purchase the game won't kill you. After that BIS has stated in the press release that you can play the game offline.

Take a moment, breathe deep, and do your research before you claim the sky is falling.

[SirBroud 1]

? how its complicated, never had a easier site to get mods,addons etc.(exept for the other great arma sites)think with steam it will become complicated and tough to get(in my opinion).

I didn't say it's complicated, but it seems like the workshop is just a one click install thing.

[Alwarren 2767]

Alwarren, the debatable qualities of Skyrim aside, my point is that ArmA3 will be permanently restricted to Steam.

That's like saying Arma II is permanently restricted to a DVD drive.

Every time you want to launch the game you are forced to launch the Steam platform.

Yes, which takes, like five seconds, and you can start it offline if you are concerned about the internet connection.

You have to keep its folder integrity,

What does that mean? You can't just mix up any game installation. You have to keep the Addon folder in the game folder, for example

you will never be able to create a Steam-independant archive

What is a "steam-independent archive"?

and you most certainly will not be able to keep a personalized/modded copy of the game that plays "out of the box" without previously installing Steam and validating the game online. All these possibilities are gone with a Steam-exclusive approach.

When I re-install Skyrim, the workshop items will be installed with it and I can play the same modded game without any sort of effort. I do have to activate the Nexus mods again, though, but I can just make a backup of the game files and install that, and it will work as well. Seriously, have you tried it out? I fail to see what you are actually criticizing, since the reality is not as you describe it.

[zimms 22]

I've been using Steam since the beta of it back in... I don't even remember; long ago. I've encouraged my group to use Steam as our means of owning the Arma series since it first appeared on it. The shift of A3 to Steam-exclusive, for the reasons cited (and those alluded to), is a good one.

There is a lot of knee-jerk reaction going on in this thread - fears of the impact on modding, as well as a lot of truly outrageous hyperbole. Dwarden's addressed the modding aspect. Only the most wildly paranoid and cynical would think that a company that has seen great success and worked with their community to the extent that BIS had would suddenly turn their backs on modding. Nothing they've said or done would indicate that, yet of course some select people freak out because of it. BIS very candidly explained their rationale, and it looks sound. The game and series will benefit from this.

Steam is not the devil incarnate. BIS does not have unlimited resources. Focusing efforts to one distribution method, and using those time savings and other perks to further refine and flesh out their games, is a definite good thing from the end user's perspective.

Whether you're there to experience those benefits or not is up to you.

Thank you Dslyecxi for being the voice of reason!

[arkblade 1]

On this benefit topic

Modding? Steam Workshop is terrible. It doesn't give any proper info on the mod, it's not comfortable to dig through, it certainly won't know which folder I want to have a mod in. And modfolders was the best invention because they let me put together a mod config like a lego. Didn't need Steam for that.

Downloading mods you lack when you try joining a server? This isn't about downloading some "clan logo" "mod" but downloading gigs of islands and models. Per person. Considering that private servers often have mods signed and modified exclusively for their needs - there can never be some unified repository with one mod for all servers. Plus I don't want to have everything in one folder. And I don't want to have 100 folders either. There are islands that I load for this server only and there are those that I load for that - 2 separate folders.

Delta patches? Game devs were doing that for more than a decade. There are specialized installers available for that. Steam wasn't even around when it started. Six-Updater is already there.

Achievements? In ArmA? Do you really want them to ruin this game too?

i agree.

steam workshop is a need to improve at least.

that can't handle multiple mod setting. and they automatically update always.

so we can't make "each own version" mods...

of course, It is very useful for casual gameplay.

but not suite to the ARMA community.

if BIS must using this. we need to have very superiority mod handling system in ARMA3....

it's Flexible, Easy to Custom, adapt for all user styles.

[AlexVestin 24]

Valve, however, is not a bad company to team up with.

Also. Steam will not: slow down internet, crash internet, rob you, crash your computer, make you unable to play multiplayer, cover your face with ads, force you to not buy a dvd, make BIS slaves, make your mods not work, disallow modding completely, keep you from surfing the internet, keep you from downloading mods on sites like armaholic, make it harder to mod arma3, force you into playing with friends, force you to make use of any social feature, hinder you from taking screenshots/making videos, playing the game.

If you have any of those issues, it's a problem on your end. Most certainly something that can be fixed/dealt with.

Edited February 21, 2013 by AlexVestin

[Masharra 10]

i agree.

steam workshop is a need to improve at least.

that can't handle multiple mod setting. and they automatically update always.

so we can't make "each own version" mods...

of course, It is very useful for casual gameplay.

but not suite to the ARMA community.

if BIS must using this. we need to have very superiority mod handling system in ARMA3....

it's Flexible, Easy to Custom, adapt for all user styles.

Confirmed. Asked a pal in mumble who plays skyrim and he said nexus all the way because workshop is trash when dealing with multiple mods and different versions. + it's auto update. SO maybe sixupdater will live on.

Also. Steam will not: slow down internet, crash internet, rob you, crash your computer, make you unable to play multiplayer, cover your face with ads, force you to not buy a dvd, make BIS slaves, make your mods not work, disallow modding completely, keep you from surfing the internet, keep you from downloading mods on sites like armaholic, make it harder to mod arma3, force you into playing with friends, force you to make use of any social feature, hinder you from taking screenshots/making videos, playing the game.

If you have any of those issues, it's a problem on your end. Most certainly something that can be fixed/dealt with.

Tis a bold post to make. Considering I have 3down which is really 1down steam does do quite a few of those things. Heck I recall last week not being able to play a certain Aliens game because a certain gaseous form of water was down for a while for some update or something.

[BOTA:16 0]

i agree.

steam workshop is a need to improve at least.

that can't handle multiple mod setting. and they automatically update always.

so we can't make "each own version" mods...

of course, It is very useful for casual gameplay.

but not suite to the ARMA community.

if BIS must using this. we need to have very superiority mod handling system in ARMA3....

it's Flexible, Easy to Custom, adapt for all user styles.

Where does it say you HAVE TO USE STEAM WORKSHOP for mods? If you don't want to use it, go download them from the source and install them as you wish. Steam Workshop is a feature of SteamWorks, it is not a requirement.

Why are there so many people complaining about Steam who have obviously no clue how it even works.

[Alwarren 2767]

If there isn't Steam, I wouldn't have to take the trouble to Google "how to stop auto updating", navigate my mouse around and uncheck the box to auto update. It's completely unnecessary.

LOL... well, the default is that you want your game up-to-date. So for the few times I would like to keep my game NOT up-to-date, I take this. And since you know now how to do it, you don't need to google it anymore.

have we reached a stage where we are too retarded to do things for ourselves and instead have a nanny spoon feed us?

Come on, you're overdoing it. Just because something offers comfort doesn't mean the users is retarded. I personally like the comfort of a toilet indoors, an outhouse in this kind of weather would be killer :)

[Masharra 10]

You may have missed the "If Bis must using this" part.

[the.d 0]

That's like saying Arma II is permanently restricted to a DVD drive.

Hmm, no. ArmA2 certainly is not. As I wrote a few pages before, I expected some dodgy copy protection that enforces the use of a disc during the first few months after release. ArmA3, however, will be restricted to Steam. Always. Right?

Yes, which takes, like five seconds, and you can start it offline if you are concerned about the internet connection.

Well, it certainly bothers me, be it from the minimalist's point of view or the fact that I do not like redundancy. :-)

What does that mean? You can't just mix up any game installation. You have to keep the Addon folder in the game folder, for example

I can freely shift my ArmA2 installation to any place I like. Its internal folder structure is kept intact, of course, but I can run it from a USB stick if I wanted to.

What is a "steam-independent archive"?

Anything packed into a .zip or .7z file that does not rely on steam to be usable. For instance, I wrapped up my OFP installation into such an archive (including the required registry keys) and I can extract/install it fully modded and with savegames and play it "out of the box" on any compatible system.

When I re-install Skyrim, the workshop items will be installed with it and I can play the same modded game without any sort of effort. I do have to activate the Nexus mods again, though, but I can just make a backup of the game files and install that, and it will work as well. Seriously, have you tried it out? I fail to see what you are actually criticizing, since the reality is not as you describe it.

The game's modding in terms of provided infrastructure is not what I am criticizing, is it? My main concerns are the permanent binding of ArmA3 to Steam and the fact that such a move not only drives away some potentially crucial community contributors (as you can see here and elsewhere around the forums), it also makes the game more accessible to people with, shall we say, a tendentially shorter attention span. I find all this regrettable.

[Smurf 12]

BIS should make a new dev blog saying that they are optin for health regen, unlock\anchievements based MP, no more MOD support and so on just to mess the whole thing up.

[Alwarren 2767]

Always. Right?

I don't know to be honest, I suppose it could be removed just like any other copy protection. Some games on Steam don't require Steam to run.

I can freely shift my ArmA2 installation to any place I like. Its internal folder structure is kept intact, of course, but I can run it from a USB stick if I wanted to.

I moved my Skyrim installation from the Steam drive to another drive before Steam implemented the secondary Steam libraries. All you have to do is a directoy junction. No big deal, really.

Anything packed into a .zip or .7z file that does not rely on steam to be usable. For instance, I wrapped up my OFP installation into such an archive (including the required registry keys) and I can extract/install it fully modded and with savegames and play it "out of the box" on any compatible system.

Well you can make a backup. Yes, it will require Steam to run.

The game's modding in terms of provided infrastructure is not what I am criticizing, is it? My main concerns are the permanent binding of ArmA3 to Steam and the fact that such a move not only drives away some potentially crucial community contributors (as you can see here and elsewhere around the forums), it also makes the game more accessible to people with, shall we say, a tendentially shorter attention span. I find all this regrettable.

Then, basically, all that bothers you is that Arma 3 will be using DRM. And please, let's not go into this elitist club stuff again, that attitude is certainly regrettable.

[frag85 10]

You mean I have to be online to play online? WTF! Are you serious? That is an outrageous request.

All kidding aside, steam is probably the most robust and proven distribution platform out there right now. I am very happy BIS is going to have A3 on steam, exclusive or not since I was probably going to use Steam anyways for ease of access. It makes things so much easier for my friends and myself. There are countless ways it is better than boxed copies. I'm not a big fan of not owning a physical copy of the game, but since steam and other online distribution platforms have come out, its all I use. No CD's to lose, no boxes or manuals with your key to lose. A big one for me is the fact that to buy a boxed game I have to drive 40 miles round trip to a gaming store and at the upfront cost of fuel alone (~$0.44/mile), it is not a cheap trip.

I would also have to imagine the cost of BIS using steam verses the cost of boxing up millions of copies, having those shipped worldwide or even hosting it themselves also maximizes profits for BIS meaning they will be able to dedicate more time to improving the game. Its a win-win for everyone; steam gets paid, BIS gets paid, we get the game.

"Boycotting A3 cause of steam is just like a kid getting pissed at their parents giving them ice cream in a bowl instead of the cup. You get the same thing, just the mode of delivery is different."

[AnimalMother92 10]

I think it's good to see BIS going this direction for A3, Steam really has a lot of benefits. If it makes things easier for them and it gets the game out the door in a more timely fashion, then it's a good move :)

[roberthammer 582]

BIS should make a new dev blog saying that they are optin for health regen, unlock\anchievements based MP, no more MOD support and so on just to mess the whole thing up.

http://files.sharenator.com/TrollDadDanceBlackSS_Which_meme_are_you-s367x530-288564-580.png

^^ + DLC with no cockpits and with new action Figure Ramirez

[NeuroFunker 11]

BIS should make a new dev blog saying that they are optin for health regen, unlock\anchievements based MP, no more MOD support and so on just to mess the whole thing up.

http://files.sharenator.com/TrollDadDanceBlackSS_Which_meme_are_you-s367x530-288564-580.png

why so pessimistic, bruh?

[AlexVestin 24]

Valve, however, is not a bad company to team up with.

Also. Steam will not: slow down internet, crash internet, rob you, crash your computer, make you unable to play multiplayer, cover your face with ads, force you to not buy a dvd, make BIS slaves, make your mods not work, disallow modding completely, keep you from surfing the internet, keep you from downloading mods on sites like armaholic, make it harder to mod arma3, force you into playing with friends, force you to make use of any social feature, hinder you from taking screenshots/making videos, playing the game.

If you have any of those issues, it's a problem on your end. Most certainly something that can be fixed/dealt with.

Tis a bold post to make. Considering I have 3down which is really 1down steam does do quite a few of those things. Heck I recall last week not being able to play a certain Aliens game because a certain gaseous form of water was down for a while for some update or something.

Well yeah, newly released games will have problems. It happens a lot during launch day/week, things break.

Even steam breaks now and then after constantly being online for years and years, and years to come. Nothing is perfect :)

I expect it to be the same for ArmA3. It's great that they'll be able to patch things up easy now if ArmA3 breaks.

Edited February 21, 2013 by AlexVestin

[Masharra 10]

You mean I have to be online to play online? WTF! Are you serious? That is an outrageous request.

All kidding aside, steam is probably the most robust and proven distribution platform out there right now. I am very happy BIS is going to have A3 on steam, exclusive or not since I was probably going to use Steam anyways for ease of access. It makes things so much easier for my friends and myself. There are countless ways it is better than boxed copies. I'm not a big fan of not owning a physical copy of the game, but since steam and other online distribution platforms have come out, its all I use. No CD's to lose, no boxes or manuals with your key to lose. A big one for me is the fact that to buy a boxed game I have to drive 40 miles round trip to a gaming store and at the upfront cost of fuel alone (~$0.44/mile), it is not a cheap trip.

I would also have to imagine the cost of BIS using steam verses the cost of boxing up millions of copies, having those shipped worldwide or even hosting it themselves also maximizes profits for BIS meaning they will be able to dedicate more time to improving the game. Its a win-win for everyone; steam gets paid, BIS gets paid, we get the game.

"Boycotting A3 cause of steam is just like a kid getting pissed at their parents giving them ice cream in a bowl instead of the cup. You get the same thing, just the mode of delivery is different."

until you get shit internet.

I boycotted BO2 because of no ded servers. I didnt play with my friends for 4ish or however long. I boycotted Battlefield because of its shit browser server thingybopper.

I boycotted Borderlands because of its nickel and diming dlc's that I refuse to pay for.

I have my principles and I wont change em for anyone.

FYI you can fit more ice cream in an average bowl than average cup.