Development Blog & Reveals

[zoog 18]

On this benefit topic

So without repeating all that bla bla in the article - what are the actual benefits that make Steam so special?

I think the most important thing is that it saves BIS a shitload of time and money to incorporate an existing system instead of building something by themselves or incorporating different 3rd party features. I think Steam somehow offers stuff which they wanted to incorporate into Arma 3 any way, and this way you can get the whole package without x-months of extra development time. On top of that they do mention the Arma 2 patch process and making sure it works, from a developers point of view, for ever variant of Arma 2 ever released both retail, digital and via Steam. I do believe it cost them lots and lots of resources to QA all these updates.

I think it's a solution that very much suits BIS's business needs. In the end it's a business, and top priority is to stay economically viable.

Personally I'm neutral about Steam. We just have to see how it all works out IMO. Lots of assumptions are being made.

Edited February 21, 2013 by zoog

[ProfTournesol 956]

Meh.

I'd much prefer if I could continue not to use Steam for ArmA, since I'm not interested in 90% of the services that Steam offers and have little use for it (I only really use it to run Valve software), but I do not see how Steam can possibly 'ruin' ArmA. I'm more concerned about these remarks in the dev blog:

I concur.

[^Th0mas^ 10]

Well, the game could still be bought on DVD, right?

[NoRailgunner 0]

Simple - wait until a game is released and wait bit of time more to get all the infos and pieces that advertisment/marketing can't show. It was BIS decision to Steamify A3 because

There was a very real chance there would be no Arma 3 this year otherwise.

Now ask yourself how would one (incl. "game experts" in the media) have dealt with the following news from BIS: "A3 - delayed into Q1/Q2 2014!" ?

[antoineflemming 14]

Well, the game could still be bought on DVD, right?

Yes, as is clearly stated.

[astast 12]

You can set Steam so it doesn't update your games automatically.

Yes i know that but at some point it just has to do it anyway

[the.d 0]

Oh boy.. I know I will probably harvest some really hateful comments for this but here it goes:

I expected ArmA3 to feature some kind of dubious (but, sadly, a presumably necessary) copy protection, something that would make me rant and rage for a couple of months and force me to wait for the release of the first proper beta patches.

I expected the usual release troubles, the inevitable glitches and bugs that a game of this complexity will always have to suffer from during its initial release phase.

I expected to be able to tolerate all this, because the (OFP/)ArmA games and expansions have managed to overcome literally thousands of deficiencies.

They overcame these faults, partly thanks to a developer team with an open ear but to no small part thanks to an incredible community. A very industrious community dedicated to polishing the rough edges of what I would call one of the last bastions of true PC gaming. A Steam-only release not only means this game will never be independent. It also means a major part of this community, certainly the die-hard classical PC gaming supporters, is not going to be very happy with such restrictions. I find this particularly sad because it seems to me that with the release of ArmA2OA the number of capable and talented community contributors was as high as ever, even compared to the times of Operation Flashpoint.

Instead, please excuse my polemics I cannot help it, we can expect a flood of Herp-Derps, adolescent short attention span drones that could not figure out how to install a beta patch before, much less how to run and/or configure add-ons. Yes, call me an elitist but the nicest thing about this game series is exactly this: It is not meant for everyone. It takes patience to learn not only about the gameplay elements but also about the game as a program and its structure. It is supposed to be a niche market, I thought; a game for people who still care about complexity and true challenges, who value emergent gameplay and immersion above today's "top seller" recipe - a recipe that can be best described as "a pseudo-railshooter with contemporary graphics and an orchestral soundtrack slapped over it".

Somebody in this threat wrote earlier something along the lines of "So what, Steam won't interfere with the game in any way, you can still play it." - On this I beg to differ: Considering you have to load a rather cumbersome online gaming platform that bombards you with pseudo-ads to mostly shitty console-port games and an unnecessarily large GUI just to even change so much as the ingame options seems very frustrating to me.

Dear BIS, I understand it is very important to make a profit and to be successful as a company. However, if your solution to do this is by constraining your flagship title to an awkward mandatory online gaming platform and potentially sacrificing a truly radiant community in order to milk the console-port / Steam "mainstream" segment I find this absolutely disappointing.

Edited February 21, 2013 by The.D

[TSAndrey 1]

I like Steam and I think Arma 3 will work great with Steam Workshop. I just hope they don't include VAC, as it could lead to a hacking chaos

[antoineflemming 14]

They might go for the money and its ok by me, but you can make a cross over arma3 and say it goodby: its the worst move they could make!, but it seems all gamecompanys are going foreward by providing there stuff only digital no more dvd's,with is a shame because it made gaming where it is today,and only steam and other will benifit of it,not BI or us will see any benifits off it.

btw not a Steam fan like you made have read,they dont provide you with anything,only thing they intrested in are cold hard bucks to give to their bosses and shareholders but nothing for the users!

lets hope it will be a steam free DVD, or a DLC using steam(dont care)can only hope for a DVD not using Steam!!!

How many of you idiots are going to keep saying there are no DVDs? Do you actually know how Steam works? yeah, you have to have Steam to play the game. But you can still buy a DVD.

[Dwarden 1124]

metalcraze since where we said we will block any community made tools or user installed mods ? ... stop jumping to false conclusions

please look at e.g. Skyrim mod scene and Civilization 5 mod scene ...

Edited February 21, 2013 by Dwarden

[On_Sabbatical 11]

You can in steam save the game files ,put them on a DVD then print the other side of it with some sexy arma 3 wallpaper and store it with your DVD collection !

[hoot 0]

Meh.

[...]I'm more concerned about these remarks in the dev blog:

Indeed. One could start reading between the lines...

[NeMeSiS 11]

Now ask yourself how would one (incl. "game experts" in the media) have dealt with the following news from BIS: "A3 - delayed into Q1/Q2 2014!" ?

"As expected, ArmA3 will not be released in 2013". :p

[Alwarren 2765]

Anyone of you guys ever read their license agreement?

Well, have you read your DVD distribution license agreement? Buying software is never an ownership transfer. It gives you a license to use/install it. From that point of view, Steam isn't any different. The only difference is that you can sell your DVD and transfer the license to someone else, but from what I understand, Steam wants to go there as well.

[Masharra 10]

How many of you idiots are going to keep saying there are no DVDs? Do you actually know how Steam works? yeah, you have to have Steam to play the game. But you can still buy a DVD.

I think you are misunderstanding. Some people want a DVD that does not involve steam in anyway. Not after install not before install NO steam period.

Hence the " Steam Free DVD"

Well, have you read your DVD distribution license agreement? Buying software is never an ownership transfer. It gives you a license to use/install it. From that point of view, Steam isn't any different. The only difference is that you can sell your DVD and transfer the license to someone else, but from what I understand, Steam wants to go there as well.

IIRC Steam was sued by some European court because they didnt have a way to do that, and their response was quite resistant to the allowing of resales.

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/game/3423715/valve-sued-in-germany-over-game-ownership/

[TSAndrey 1]

People that won't buy Arma 3 because of this are crybabies TBH

Why is Steam so bad for you? You can still buy a DVD copy, mods will be easire to manage (Steam Workshop), faster updates, anti-piracy... Is it such a problem to make a Steam account to play Arma 3? Steam also makes it easy to play with friends and manage games

[zoog 18]

metalcraze since where we said we will block any community made tools or user installed mods ? ... stop jumping to false conclusions

Maybe it's time for some official rumor control. Unfortunately, things like this get out of hand rather quickly on the internetz :(

[ProfTournesol 956]

How many of you idiots are going to keep saying there are no DVDs? Do you actually know how Steam works? yeah, you have to have Steam to play the game. But you can still buy a DVD.

I think you are misunderstanding. Some people want a DVD that does not involve steam in anyway. Not after install not before install NO steam period.

Hence the " Steam Free DVD"

^This, plus calling people idiots is really not needed.

[froggyluv 2130]

So wait, just to be clear...is THIS the 24 hour huge news?

:p

[Jimmyfingers2 10]

God bless steam, I can play Games from it , keep mods upto date and even chat to my brother i law while playing, yeh well maybe not the last one :) :) My other games run great on steam so i have no problem at all.

[derdoe 10]

How many of you idiots are going to keep saying there are no DVDs? Do you actually know how Steam works? yeah, you have to have Steam to play the game. But you can still buy a DVD.

Its not about DVDs, its about the stupid things that Steam brings along, e.g. slowing down game starts, updating every 5 minutes, making internet connections to not work properly anymore (e.g. cannot surf internet while steam is updating) etc etc... I dont want that. I was more than happy the way OFP, ArmA, ArmA2 were released. BIS might think its a step forward but actually its a step back into slavery for them. BIS was an independent game development studio, i dont know what the future brings but independent they are not anymore.

[Raptor 10]

Indeed. One could start reading between the lines...

Indeed that let me listen attentively. No good omen for the game. :(

[antoineflemming 14]

Its not about DVDs, its about the stupid things that Steam brings along, e.g. slowing down game starts, updating every 5 minutes, making internet connections to not work properly anymore (e.g. cannot surf internet while steam is updating) etc etc... I dont want that. I was more than happy the way OFP, ArmA, ArmA2 were released. BIS might think its a step forward but actually its a step back into slavery for them. BIS was an independent game development studio, i dont know what the future brings but independent they are not anymore.

Hmmm, I can use my internet when Steam is updating... I bet BIS was trying to implement a lot of social features and new mod management/mp management, and they couldn't get that working in time. Because that's what I see Steam bringing to the table for BIS.

[Alwarren 2765]

Modding? Steam Workshop is terrible. It doesn't give any proper info on the mod, it's not comfortable to dig through, it certainly won't know which folder I want to have a mod in. And modfolders was the best invention because they let me put together a mod config like a lego. Didn't need Steam for that.

What are you comparing it to? Now, you have (at worst) a "mygreatmod.7z" which contains "mygreatmod.pbo" and nothing else. unless you know what to do with it, you're stonewalled. A number of people copy this file to the rest of the PBO's in the addon folder and screw up their installation.

Steam Workshop certainly has room for improvement (the Search function to start with), but at the very least, it makes it dead easy to install a mod. This hasn't got anything to do with a user being dumb, and the presence of programs like PlayWith Six is a clear indication that there is a need for such functionality.

Do you use it? Probably not, you'll probably go for six updater or Armarize like myself, or download the stuff manually, because you know how it works. Most people here do I suppose, still there are a larger number of people, and hopefully new players, that don't know what an addon folder is. I see this as a clear win, regardless of how good or bad the implementation is now.

Downloading mods you lack when you try joining a server? This isn't about downloading some "clan logo" "mod" but downloading gigs of islands and models. Per person

Again, this is something that you can't even do now. If you play on a server that requires, say, Lingor, you will start to search for it. Yeah we all know Armaholic is the place to start looking for, or Arma2base.de, but you still have to download gigs of data, then and now. So again, I don't see a downside in this, only a gain.

"Social" gaming with join-your-friend? But that won't work in a game like ArmA where you gather on set times and play. Many servers are also passworded. Many servers will also use external communication software so you can't avoid all these with a single click.

That proved to be not true for DayZ for example. It would be one aspect of multiplayer that might be improved in Arma 3. Personally, I prefer the style as I play now (join a clan server to play with people you know with similar mindset), but why artificially restrict this? If Arma 3 has a decent hop-in-and-play game mode, this is something you want.

And again, since it is something we do not have at all right now, yes, it's an advantage.

So without repeating all that bla bla in the article - what are the actual benefits that make Steam so special?

Could turn this around, why is Steam such a bad thing?

[krazikilla 5]