What takes the most time when designing missions?

[nkenny 1057]

Poll: What takes the most time when designing missions?

1. Concept and design; Situation and Setting.

2. Choosing a workable location on the map

3. Scripts and other framework

4. Writing the briefing and other finishing touches

5. Equipment and vehicle selection for balance.

6. Seeking tutorials or looking for help.

7. Other-- please specify

8. I don't use the mission editor.

I'll join the poll bandwagon of the Arma3 subforum and ask a question of my own.

Aside from playtesting or bughunting which is largely an enjoyable experience-- What do you find takes the most time when you are creating missions? In what phase of a missions design do you find yourself most likely to loose steam or feel the need to do something else. It would be interesting and helpful if you could comment what types of missions you usually make and how experienced you consider yourself.

I tend to create small to medium scaled coops and adversarial missions-- usually to be played in our internal playgroup. I consider myself reasonably skilled, but not particularly advanced. Usually I have a very specific idea or concept in mind. From a practical point of view and I tend to do use surprisingly few scripted solutions and pretty much the reason I created this thread is to highlight the significant amount of time I spend hunting for good locations on the map! I swear the environments have killed more potential mission concepts than anything else. Mind you I'm not attempting to shift blame on neither Bohemia interactive nor the island designers-- Instead I'm looking for other points of view or what other peoples experiences are. :)

*Note: I post this in the general section because this is really not a thread that deals with the TECHNICAL aspects of mission editing/design. Instead I seek to investigate the PRACTICAL aspects of it.

-k

Edited June 16, 2011 by NkEnNy

[OrLoK 20]

Hullo there,

A very quick reply.

Mission editing can be very simple, but its the addition of scripting, like revives, respawn of vehicles etc which can propel a mission from the mundane to the unforgettable.

Go here kill that gets repetetive after a while, but things that enable enginners, medics, ace stuff, weapon resting really make an impact IMHO.

Rgds

Lok

[maturin 12]

I'm busy designing my first real mission, after a long time spent doing low-tech personal stuff in the editor. And what's taking me the longest is working out why my tasks and briefings aren't working right, teasing out the tiny bullshit details that are derailing everything by trial in error and forum wailing, without any relevant documentation in sight.

[katipo66 94]

Constantly adding to it!

I just make missions for myself

Setup a basic mission, think... would be cool if this could happen, searches forum for solution, find solution, implement solution... 4+hrs.

Play a bit and think, would be cool if this could happen, repeat above process.

scrap that one and port to clean map repeat and refine.

Get bored with that and get enthused with another type mission, this goes in monthly cycles.

Swear to myself never to use mods again, next month use mods!?

100s of unfinished missions in mission folder, try to delete them but never do just in case!

Pray that one day there will be modules for most aspects of mission making... spawn, respawn, revive, patrol, defend, markers etc etc, ive spent about 70% of time in editor 30% actually playing.

[-)rStrangelove 0]

Others - TESTING TESTING TESTING do triggers work, does the mission end, does a vehicle patrol end up underneath a bridge and do all helicopters have decend space at their landing pads.

Testing possibilities are endless tbh.

[sethos 2]

I'm one of those weird people who like to make detailed missions. So it takes me no time to come up with a decent scenario, the objectives and all that but I can spend hours just placing fences, making little FOBs, having signs, bonfires and trash standing around, stuff like that.

It's a disease :P

[ArmAriffic 10]

Pain in the ass scripts and not working properly, that's why I abandoned a campaign I was making the scripts just take ages

[Przemek_kondor 13]

Coding and then testing (especially for MP with dedicated server, other players, JIP) and fixing (and finding source of) bugs.

When mission is something more that putting some units, markers and triggers in editor then there is no other option. Briefing, location etc take about 0.001% of work

[walker 0]

Hi all

As ])rStrangelove and others said:

The one that takes the longest is the one you missed, kind of intrudes on script testing and balance as well though.

Play Testing out endings.

Kind Regards

[sander 14]

Other-- please specify! gets my vote. Testing is the most crucial part of mission creation, overshadowing by far the other aspects. Scouting terrain comes second, as for me terrain tends to dictate mission and not the other way around. Walking, driving or flying all over the map provides a feel for the lay of the land and what kind of scenario would fit a location. Briefings can sometimes also take up a bit of time.

Regards,

Sander

[glowbal 13]

Other, testing. I spend atleast 14 hours testing when making a mission, with multiple play throughs, client and server side.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

7 - growing new hair after having pulled out the old one :D

If it's MP, most of the time is spent figuring out why stuff don't work (from regular locality issues, via remote objects that cannot be accessed, to netcode efficiency). For MP you typically do AI without too much detail. A considerable amount of time is also spent on what is available wrt gear; I really can't stand flying medic AT sniper wannabies - although I'm using it myself sometimes when I'm allowed (and I hate myself for doing it). That being said, I don't really create any MP from scratch (don't have the energy or time), but I'll happily modify something existing to suit own squad and personal ideals when I think something is out of whack (pretty much always).

For SP, most of the time is spent converting ideas into something that actually works as planned. I only make SP missions for my own amusement, and often have things in them that few will ever see (like I have an old school non NVG mission at night, where rain will wash off camo paint - kinda ridiculous, but I needed to know if it could be done. Or a custom combat patrol movement system where AI currently goes completely out of order for reasons I just don't understand - like at halts where the whole formation suddenly changes direction for "no reason". Or manually voice commands when radio is stripped to simulate radio silence periods - a lot of work for little real gain, but it's something I need :D) No custom voices, only text based, and usually without an ending.

I also spend a considerable amount of time making scripts from scratch that I have done before. Often related to weather and special effects (like bluenightyellowdaysdesaturatedweather, lol, or dust storms and goggles etc), or automatic placement of sounds and lights (for night missions). Tons of hours spent on small details that nobody would even notice. :D

Ended up voting on "Scripts and other framework", with "Equipment and vehicle selection for balance" being a good secondary.

[Nephris1 10]

Where is the option betatesting? Spending days and days on it....

That makes most of my maps mostly moving to the file tomb or trashcan once.

Local and global issues killing most motivation at some point for me...,as i am just too stupid i guess....

growing new hair after having pulled out the old onev

Bullseye!

Nice 1!!:D

[sick1 13]

To me every aspect of making a mission takes up a considerable and equal amount of time. If you do it enough, you can streamline most of the process using a systematic approach. The key is to make sure you enjoy working on it. I like to watch war movies or military documentaries while I'm working on a mission. I get a lot of cool ideas that way and i don't become bored just messing with the editor.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Cutscenes. Cutscenes. Cutscenes.

Did I mention cutscenes? Oh, and placing objects.

[2nd ranger 282]

Testing is always going to be the most time-consuming. But assuming there are no major bugs, the parts of the actual meat & potatoes mission-making process that take the most time for me are:

• Learning - It seems that every time I make a mission, I end up having to learn something completely new, because each new idea is more ambitious or complex than the last, and ends up being beyond my existing knowledge. Either that or I just want to make my missions more efficient or whatever by learning something like FSM.

• AI workarounds - Sometimes the AI will just NOT do what I want. So alot of time is spent on developing complex solutions for what should be simple actions. The last time It was to make an AI walk right up to the back of a car, the time before that it was to make them run to a location without stopping. Both required unjustifiably complex scripting.

• Cosmetics - I also spend entirely too much time on PPeffects, but the look of a mission is important to me so I want to get it just right. I also spend alot of time on sounds, but I don't regard that as wasted time because I enjoy it and sounds are also an important aspect of a mission.
  

Then there are things like CarlGustaffa mentioned, that I spend waaaay too much time on just because I had an idea and want to know if it works, and probably no-one will ever see. Placing units and objects used to consume countless hours but now a simple copyToClipboard trigger eliminates that problem.

But outside of the actual mission-making process, my number one time waster is deciding what the hell to do. I think of a mission idea but don't quite know what the meat of it is going to be. So after previewing the PPEffects 500 times, I run around in the editor and shoot at imaginary enemies while trying to decide what the mission is going to be about. Very few missions emerge from this part of the process. Most perish.

[nettrucker 142]

Definitely testing so I voted for others.

kind regards

[LeadCommando65 10]

The devil hides in the details - at least for me.

Placing objects, balancing the mission, setting up objectives & finish triggers, and so on ...

But also finding a good place on the map can be time consuming, although I haven't experienced it as much negative as the design of the details (voted on the detail stuff).

Also testing the missions costs very much time, especially if it's a larger mission (playtime/area/unit count).

My missions are mostly small coop missions (2-8 players). I'm using as much scripting as the mission requires which heavily varies for each mission, but this has never been a problem for me. I managed to release only one mission so far, cause I don't have so much time. Sadly, all the other good ideas remain in my brain or as unfinished scratches of mission in the A2 folder.

Edited June 16, 2011 by LeadCommando65

[Zipper5 74]

Cutscenes. Setting them up, getting the right angles, adding effects, animations, sounds, scripting them & then bug-fixing them. Easily the most time-consuming task for myself when making missions.

[mr burns 132]

-Concept and design; Situation and Setting.

-Choosing a workable location on the map

-Equipment and vehicle selection for balance

A mixture of those three for me, with the last point being one the most unpleasant for it´s search-needy nature (class name here, classname there, it never ends..).

2nd point is purely cosmetical but also crucial. Nobody wants to fight in Stary Sobor for the 304859609th time. Sometimes when playing missions we pass interesting places and if i´m lucky i can remember it the day after - no active location scouting here.

Not doing lot´s of beta testing anymore because my framework (or rather workflow) is now quite fleshed out and i tend to avoid doing stuff that i´m not good at :D

Voted for "other" - specified by orlok

Go here kill that gets repetetive after a while, but things that enable enginners, medics, ace stuff, weapon resting really make an impact IMHO

Edited June 16, 2011 by Mr Burns

[.kju 3245]

(MP) Testing

[icebreakr 3159]

1. Testing AI behaviour and timings

2. Placement of objects in crappy 2d and then rechecking in 3D (trial & error, hours fly by)

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

I voted scripts. More specifically its the MP testing of those scripts; ie, JIP.

In order for the mission to work properly (for me) it has to be play tested in a server environment, with more than a single person to check if things are operating as intended.

I run the dedicated server exe and connect to it with the client exe, using the same computer for both, but I don't always have the additional person to help.

[mr burns 132]

-Ziggy-;1957238']I voted scripts. More specifically its the MP testing of those scripts; ie' date=' JIP.

In order for the mission to work properly (for me) it has to be play tested in a server environment, with more than a single person to check if things are operating as intended.

I run the dedicated server exe and connect to it with the client exe, using the same computer for both, but I don't always have the additional person to help.[/quote']

There´s a great solution to this: Forget that JIP (kind of) exists and treat every mission as you´d be dealing with OFP - saves a countless ammount of hours and many bald spots on your head - also brings out the good ´ol OFP feeling in oyur maps as you have to keep it nice & simple :p

When we were still playing (& making) revive/jip missions the testing of even the smallest features took at least 10 revisions ...

You need a Xeno degree in ArmA science to manage every little neccessity for JIP and client/serverside/whatnot. It´s crazy.

[Muerte LOL 10]

Other: unit placement, finding that right spot where the enemy has the angle on you, making sure it doesn't stick through a wall or fall off and at the same time trying to make sure that it is a realistic position for the situation.

Scripts (finding them) would be second for me, once found and saved somewhere there is not much to it, thank god for copy and paste ;).

Testing not so much, when you have triggers that work copy them from your other missions and alter them as needed. Set captive radio command makes short work of most of it. Changing the size of or moving detection triggers is easy enough to see if they fire or not then just resize them back or move them back into place.