Things ArmA 1 and OFP did better than Arma 2

[ProfTournesol 956]

Last I checked whether or not the AI in the game do what it is they are programmed to do has literally nothing to do with my CPU strength. Now perhaps if it were a discussion of lag in some way, sure. But it isn't a discussion of lag, because if it were lag, then it wouldn't just be my AI not engaging, the enemy wouldn't be engaging either. So instead of my AI getting killed by the enemy AI, which is also running off of my computer in SP, it would be a battle that never started as I'd be the only one shooting.

Good effort though...

I don't have this kind of trouble. And it's true that a weak/overloaded CPU may cause bad/irresponsive AI.

[SPC.Spets 21]

maybe it was for the time that OpF was release, the inmersion of the campaign, the fear to aproach an enemy base in the night, alone. running in the forest, long way, just to shot and kill a spetznaz officer. the first time I donwloaded a custom user mission with my 56k connection.

[-GR-Operative 10]

)rStrangelove;1943037']Has someone mentioned the story yet?

In OpF the story and the characters were far more deeper/cooler/simpler to follow and to relate to (as a gamer). In ArmA1 you mostly see some nameless guys shooting/driving around and you're just one of them. In ArmA2 you have the Team Razor characters - a step in the right direction' date=' but everytime they get stuck in the ruined cities / in their vehicles the illusion of 'unique characters' is totally destroyed again.

Never finished ArmA2 because of that. OpF was superior in terms of story, maybe because it was simpler.[/quote']

I know most people like 'living' personalities and such, but I think it's part of the immersion (imho) to control a 'faceless' person. I don't know, I feel it's more immersive this way, I feel I'm there.

Of course, diff people, diff opinion. I got your point.

[Grimfist 0]

Why do you think this is? What did OFP do to give you this impression that ARMA1+2 didn't?

Im trying to put my finger on it, i just this minute finished resistance again, and i think its a number of things, but i cant decide exactly

- characters, i was actually sad when victor died, when miles died i didnt care.

- its less complicated

- sounds are better

- colours are nicer

- when you shoot someone and hear that thud and they fall down

- the way vehicles go all mangled not just blackened

- dont get frustrated with dumb ai and bugs as much (less objects to get stuck on in ofp?) - might not be as intelligent but they actually do what there told.

- ballistics (things are less accurate - rockets are better)

- no grass layer thing

- recoil is nicer

i cant really think - but i do prefer it.

arma 2 is just nicer to look at and has some pretty cool features like back up sights, gear screen, artillery, backpacks, lights etc.

offtopic: i really hope arma 3 has a resistance style campaign with weapon pools and what not.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Grimfist

[lugiahua 26]

Last I checked whether or not the AI in the game do what it is they are programmed to do has literally nothing to do with my CPU strength. Now perhaps if it were a discussion of lag in some way, sure. But it isn't a discussion of lag, because if it were lag, then it wouldn't just be my AI not engaging, the enemy wouldn't be engaging either. So instead of my AI getting killed by the enemy AI, which is also running off of my computer in SP, it would be a battle that never started as I'd be the only one shooting.

Good effort though...

Ask any experienced modders here, they will confirm that the CPU/memory played a huge part on the AI behaviors.

Myself also tested it on different computers before.

[paragraphic l 2]

Might have missed it but:

Interiors for Armored Vehicles: Seriously give'm back!

[Ausbro 10]

Ask any experienced modders here, they will confirm that the CPU/memory played a huge part on the AI behaviors.

Myself also tested it on different computers before.

Sadly there must be more to it too though, as even with an I7 930 @4.2ghz and 6gb of DDR3 RAM @1600mhz my AI frequently fails to engage the enemy in clear sight, especially when they're in vehicles.

The campaign is almost unplayable because of this too, I was recently replaying the ArmA 2 one and in every single mission at some point one or all of my squad members would simply stop responding to any commands and stop moving.

Biggest thing on my ArmA 3 wishlist is a hugely improved AI, as well as being able to play multiplayer without horrendous lag.

[mondkalb 1087]

Here are my two cents:

I believe, if there is one thread amongst the gazillion posts in this entire forum that BIS are probably ignoring, they really should read and consider the thoughts and ideas about OFP in this one for Arma 3.

Whenever you hop into any Arma gaming community and start talking about OFP and back then, all the good memories come back and everyone simultaneously agrees on how awesome it was back then and that A2 sadly cannot not live up to that.

OFP did "live longer" from it's campaign and missions than Arma2 did/does, the latter is IMO only surviving because of the huge community creating new content and BIS supporting them with constant patches/updates.

My Cent #2:

Eric Idle once said in an interview:

It’s like when people say, “Would the Beatles get back together again?†What we really mean is, “Can’t we be young again?â€

OFP is now nearly ten years old.

[lwlooz 0]

Hey , it's my favourite Celery thread again , thanks.

Already many things mentioned here. I second those:

• AI: Less Scripted , Less Awkard , More Reliable , Follows order more efficient
  
• Interface: Command Bar, Command System
  
• Atmosphere: De/Briefing , Tank Interiors , Simple but more immersive Lighting
  
• Cold War: Equipment , Factions , Possible Scenarios , Good Campaign
  

Some other things would be:

Innovation:

There is a nostalgia element to this , but only so far as some OFP gamers thought after the brilliant revolutionary game that OFP was ,

that this would go on somewhat in OFP2/OFP3.

I know myself playing with WGL5 and CoC CE and CoC UA thought that in the next game I would play somewhat tactical Company vs Company battles in Multiplayer.

I also imagined in the far future that we could have Fulda Gap Scenarios. But fuck all happened since then.

BIS improved the engine a lot , but they don't make anything out of that.

So we are all sitting here in an endless time loop , doing the same things over and over again for every release of the same game.

It does not suprise me that gets stale and the feeling of OFP is never reached again and some non-zomboid people leave.

So as far as innovation goes, OFP did that a lot better than Arma2.

Diversity:

I get the feeling , especially when reading these forums , the only people supposed to play this game are graphic-whores who care more about the right bolts on weapons and tanks

and believe a war simulation to be just a visual display of everything that happens to one soldier body/vehicle in war as opposed to that war being actually simulated by the game.

Therefore the most favourite game-mode this game is currently made for is people virtually pretending to be soldiers , role-playing and shooting rather dull AI. Yawn.

I believe OFP was more diverse and attracted all kinds of people of different backgrounds and different playing styles.

Good ole PvP Gamers to A&D/TvT/CTI gamers to Coop Gamers.

People wanting to have a bit of fun, sim gamers , wargamers and these people who pretend to be soldiers.

[lugiahua 26]

we have to remember that overtime, the exception from gamers also raised.

If we bring Arma2 campaign back to 2001, it could be a classic pieces that copied by many other games. so I argue that some features in Aram2 were not "worse" then OFP, but instead that people have much higher exception than before. (of course, it's been 8 years)

[Dwarden 1125]

Here are my two cents:

I believe, if there is one thread amongst the gazillion posts in this entire forum that BIS are probably ignoring, they really should read and consider the thoughts and ideas about OFP in this one for Arma 3.

Whenever you hop into any Arma gaming community and start talking about OFP and back then, all the good memories come back and everyone simultaneously agrees on how awesome it was back then and that A2 sadly cannot not live up to that.

OFP did "live longer" from it's campaign and missions than Arma2 did/does, the latter is IMO only surviving because of the huge community creating new content and BIS supporting them with constant patches/updates.

My Cent #2:

Eric Idle once said in an interview:

OFP is now nearly ten years old.

I'm for sure not ignoring the thread and it's posts :)

[Adjutant 10]

Some brilliant points made. I swear CWC/Resistance animations, environment and combat looked better to me than the arma series that followed. The transitions in the campaign were brilliant. At first the brewing storm and the eagerness to fight, then exhaustion and a feeling of hopelessness as I kept getting pinned down in the first battles and had to witness defeat. Then the amazing cutscenes that reflect the players mood and give that necessary break from the action while developing the plot. And you are gradually being drawn in to the story yourself, your enthusiasm grows for it. Losing montignac and falling into enemy encirclement was an experience that no other game or film will repeat. It is just all the pieces coming together, not just one individual aspect of the game.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I think you guys are glorifying too much. Much of what made OFP so awesome back in the day was that it was the only one to do it - the whole concept was so new. It was fighting in the vast openness compared to extreme corridor shooters, where corridors was actually corridors rather than camouflaged corridor fighting we have today.

But now that many of these features are pretty much standard, it doesn't stand the test of time anymore. Sure the campaigns were great, but we did ask for need to feel we're in an actual war rather than one man against the universe setting, and that's what Arma1 gave us. Not the best of campaigns, but at least it was fresh and not a copy of what was already done. I can't imagine a Resistance campaign without getting a feel of something that we've already seen.

As for birds, wtf? We now have skeet machines, and we can play without hurting any real birds :D Although more birds would be nice, no, it's not something I'm gonna spend effort on missing :) As long as there are sounds to use, I'm content - I don't have to be able to shoot down birds.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

I think you guys are glorifying too much. Much of what made OFP so awesome back in the day was that it was the only one to do it - the whole concept was so new. It was fighting in the vast openness compared to extreme corridor shooters, where corridors was actually corridors rather than camouflaged corridor fighting we have today.

It's not that simple. Even when I go back and play OFP now there are still times when I think some things were much better than they were in ArmA. I think what made OFP work so well was the setting; the story really supported the gameplay and vice versa, where in ArmA and ArmA 2 the stories seem more like they have been tacked on to the gameplay. The OFP campaigns also fully demonstrated all the different types of gameplay the game had to offer (flying, tanking, stealth, even non-combat scenarios).

[.kju 3241]

@CarlGustaffa

What is your point? The topic and aim of this thread is clear enough, is it not?

[paragraphic l 2]

It's not that simple. Even when I go back and play OFP now there are still times when I think some things were much better than they were in ArmA. I think what made OFP work so well was the setting; the story really supported the gameplay and vice versa, where in ArmA and ArmA 2 the stories seem more like they have been tacked on to the gameplay. The OFP campaigns also fully demonstrated all the different types of gameplay the game had to offer (flying, tanking, stealth, even non-combat scenarios).

Talking about the setting in OFP being better, I think I just found out why that is for myself. Chernarus is a current day country, with current day setting, it feels 'normal'. Everon and the other islands feel depressing, cold, 'fictional' it's not just that they look like there was a war going on there, they also have something I can't relate to, they don't feel 'normal'.

At least, I believe that is one part of it. Of course the destruction of the villages you come across tell a story, where as Chernarus is untouched by the violence it seems. Which doesn't engage you into any setting, you could just as well be on a holiday having some paintbal fun in the woods.

[NoRailgunner 0]

OFP missions/campaigns were bit more addicting because of:

+ the simple old and now outdated Cold War era concept "good=west" vs "evil=east"

+ voice acting

Some people may try vanilla OFP (again) only to see that some memories and nostalgic feelings only match to a modded OFP eg OFP with ECP / WGL / DynamicRange Soundmod etc. ;)

Imho its better to try + make great campaigns "only for SP" and "only for MP". This cross-over might work for a few missions but its still better to focus on one type of mission aka SP or MP. In SP one can tell more about the story, characters and show how some things do look/work great.

The MP campaign could be more focussed on how players are getting into their place of a group. Maybe include something like a AfterActionReport?

There is no need to go back - only to make all things fit well into one game. Make it consistent, flawless, seamless and completely rounded... :)

[celery 8]

Forgot one biggie: 3D sounds. In Arma 2 the sound position relative to you is updated at ~0.5 second intervals whereas OFP and Armed Assault don't have that limitation.

[LJF 0]

And I still think BIS needs to return to the 80s (or similar cold war setting) at some point. I'm getting bored of all the hi-tech gadgetry.

OFP:

* Awesome animations - seriously, the OFP animations were much looser and while less realistic they were certainly nicer looking, especially the death animations and the swaying equipment.

* Story and setting - it made sense and was rooted in reality, I'm tired of fictional stuff to be honest, it just doesn't stick.

* Missions - I really liked how "average" the missions were, you felt like a soldier and not like a ... super commando? It just feels strange now.

* Minimalism - everything OFP did was purely functional, it was really quick and got the job done.

ArmA1:

* Clarity - a lot of it is the post processing, but ArmA1 on the whole just felt very crisp and sharp whereas A2 feels blurry and slow.

* Island - Sahrani was the best island in any BI game ever :)

Talking about the setting in OFP being better, I think I just found out why that is for myself. Chernarus is a current day country, with current day setting, it feels 'normal'. Everon and the other islands feel depressing, cold, 'fictional' it's not just that they look like there was a war going on there, they also have something I can't relate to, they don't feel 'normal'.

Absolutely, ArmA1/2/3 (I assume 3 will be similar) feel like they got the gameplay and then invented a story and world to go with it, instead of telling the story of a world ... if you know what I mean. With CWC everything just felt right, I can still go back to it and enjoy it even though it misses many many improvements present in A1/2/OA.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

* Island - Sahrani was the best island in any BI game ever :)

Sahrani was from ArmA, not OFP. :raisebrow:

[Smurf 12]

Sahrani was from ArmA, not OFP. :raisebrow:

ArmA1:

* Island - Sahrani was the best island in any BI game ever

??

[Big Dawg KS 6]

??

Didn't see that.

[badlymad 0]

It's not that simple. Even when I go back and play OFP now there are still times when I think some things were much better than they were in ArmA. I think what made OFP work so well was the setting; the story really supported the gameplay and vice versa, where in ArmA and ArmA 2 the stories seem more like they have been tacked on to the gameplay. The OFP campaigns also fully demonstrated all the different types of gameplay the game had to offer (flying, tanking, stealth, even non-combat scenarios).

This is a good point - one of the great things about OFP was that the campaign was structured in such a way that it felt as though the action was naturally "escalating" - you would start by encountering a few enemies, nobody even knew who the enemy were exactly during the initial missions, and by the time you did know you were already thrust into a situation which was terrifying in its minimalism (After Montignac). It would be great if ArmA 3 could capture the sense of foreboding in its campaign where you didn't feel capable of taking on the entire world, which is what I felt was the case with ArmA 2's campaign.

[enad 11]

Viktor Troska and James Gastovski.

Nuff said.

But more seriously, the Resistance and black ops CWC missions were some of the best styles of missions in OFP that you just don't see in ArmA 2 (what with the sneaking around and scavaging/stealing stuff).

And I still think BIS needs to return to the 80s (or similar cold war setting) at some point. I'm getting bored of all the hi-tech gadgetry.

Imagine an HD Remake of OFP on the ArmA 3 engine, I would cry...of joy.

That would be damn awesome, there's a lack of modern cold war era games.

[MoS 0]

Omg you guys made me pack out my OFP/Resistance stuff. I got a nostalgia-shock when seeing the game manuals. Installing this game right now!

Let´s see how far my senses can cope with technology from nearly 10 years ago :D

EDIT: This is unbelievable! The graphics dont disgust me at all! It´s so great being back to Malden. I´ve just accomplished the "Take the car" scenario and guess what!? I got killed by GRENADES! AI actually throws grenades!!! 10 years ago AI was capable of throwing grenades perfectly... and now?

Also AI reacts instantly and feels way more intelligent. I spotted a guy and shot at him when my magazine went dry. I was standing at a corner and got back behind cover while reloading. I popped half of my body outside again when I got instantly killed! AI reacted like a human player would do - wait and see if he comes back at the same spot. I had no chance... this is great I tells ya!

The overall feeling plus max FPS is like a dream. The world "feels" persistent again due to enhanced viewdistance, perfect control over my body/gun and no graphical glitches like LOD switching.

Also driving is a pleasure again! Remember when we had a pointing cue and the steerwheel actually turned right to it?

I never understood why they changed that...

You guys have to try playing OFP again. I guess I´ll stick with it for now as all my current games got boring and ArmA II doesn´t bind me as much as OFP does...

Edited June 4, 2011 by MoS