They better have female soldiers...

[therussiandong 10]

There are girls that enjoy playing ArmA :(

One of my best friends is a girl who plays ArmA.

Of course I introduced it to her lol

She hated using the male models so she forced me to download the female US soldiers mod.

Females in A3 please!

[DerKonig 10]

You just made a point and then completely contradicted yourself with an article. Now you're asking me to trust the comment section of an internet page as a reliable source of proof?!

Making generalizations about the genders is, by definition, sexist. Although in general, usually men are more physically large than women, there are plenty of men sadly unfit for combat, and there are plenty of women combat able and strong. Even if you disagree, your article says explicitly that they are passing it soon. This takes place in the future so it makes more women will be serving.

Using something that may not be concrete proof is not a contradiction. The article also does not say there is any sort of serious legislation in motion to increase the number of females in combat roles. If this community paid any attention to military news, they would see that this sort of thing pops up every now and again and gets shot down once it gets placed on the desk of someone sensible. And yes, a comment section is for sure not a solid resource that one might use as for a bibliographic source in a College essay, but be honest. Read the posts. KU's community is one with a highly military background. They know what they're talking about (Most of them, I'll allow that there are, of course, the few internet tough guys and SEAL- wannabes).

EDIT: And yes, I'm aware that making a decision that is influenced solely or heavily on gender is sexism, but the word carries a connotation that causes many to interpret the word as meaning a "sexist" decision is inherently unfair.

Edited May 24, 2011 by DerKonig
Additional thought

[crazyirish93 10]

all u need is a female looking face no need to create character models or new animations problem solved now all the sexists can argue all they like but they should really grow up.

[r3volution 0]

I'm pretty amazed/impressed by the level of blatant sexism on display thus far in this thread, from the 'women are distracting on the battlefield' (which is a very interesting projection I think) to 'girls can't fire accurately because some dumb blond in a youtoob vid can't fire a 12 gauge'. OR the ever popular its not ok if women are shot in a game one, because you know theres a huge ethical leap between killing a bunch of pixels that looks male to a bunch of pixels that might look a bit female.

There have been female soldiers on the battlefield, and in many armies for the last 10 years or so, only recently Australia recommended that Women be allowed to serve in frontline roles. And one only needs to dig through the history books to find plenty of examples of women taking an active role in combat. I know for the patriarchal macho set this will be hard to deal with, but it doesn't make you less of a man because women can fight next to you. And if Arma3 is based around the kind of desperate scenario they describe, women should not be relegated to the role of animated furniture that they were in Arma2.

I don't even feel there should be a hugely different soldier model, and this isn't a concession to the 'cant fight if there's girls there' set, but an acknowlegement that however great the difference between the female and male body, under 50 pounds of combat gear its pretty hard to tell the difference apart from the face and/or hair.

So I don't view it as an impossibility to do, because a slightly altered/tweaked soldier model with diff hair/face texture selections can't be that hard to do for BI at this point in the picture.

So really, why not? The majority of the arguments I see against seem to revolve around some level of sexist opinion, tho there's a few technically based ones. I feel honestly the technical issues are nothing big (if they can be solved by Modders I feel BI should easily be able to implement at this point in development) and that given the scenario they're going with, and the way that military gender policy is headed, that not to not have women present in some combat roles (and I don't mean 50-50 representation, even 5-10% would be fine) is going to detract from the realism of what is supposed to be the biggest and best Mil-Sim yet...

[nodunit 397]

In the end it all boils down to business and PR, as much as the world loves to think we have become so sophisticated we are still living back in the 1800's-

For some reason in games these are okay

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/103/1035800/bayonetta-20091016073514805.jpg

http://www.videogamegirlsdb.com/Images/Mortal_Kombat/Jade/Jade_MKD_wallpaper_01.jpg

http://cdn0.spong.com/pack/x/b/xblades290900l/_-X-Blades-PC-_.jpg

http://www.gta.cz/data/gta4/Clanky/striptyzove-bary/the-triangle-club/the-triangle-club3.jpg

http://www.multiplayergames.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Screen-shot-2010-07-05-at-11.11.25-PM.png

Buuuut when you see something like this in this day and age http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/article/565/565517/call-of-duty-finest-hour-20041111110722200-000.jpg suddenly all hell would break loose. I'm shocked that there wasn't a press outbreak against MGS4 for meryl looking like a more plausible female soldier http://spawnio.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/merylsilverburgh.jpg

The common belief is that women are not big into video games like many guys, looking at the above you have to wonder why :\

_________________________________________________________________________________

As far as realism goes we all know darn well that Arma games are not the most realistic in the world and while the rules are similar they are not exact as ours. From a gaming standpoint what is the harm exactly, are you afraid to see a female soldier fighting, why.

Taking a step back however looking at it as "Female soldier" specificly is too narrow minded, perhaps the topic should be more about female units in Arma being able to use weapons, then female soldiers would fall into place.

Have we become so entrenched in our belief that reality must be duplicated of our world that we will fight tooth and nail to push aside any pretense of what could be and possibility's in a world similar to our own but not held by the same rules?

Edited May 24, 2011 by NodUnit

[r3volution 0]

@ Nodunit : Agreed!

I don't see why its totally cool to have the stupidly hyperstylised/hypersexualised female imagery everywhere, and for that to be ok or not ok as the case may be (argument for another day perhaps?). But to then have that used as some kind of argument AGAINST having realistic portrayals of women just serves to belittle both genders. You'd think we'd have the ability to get over Freud's 'Maddonna/Whore' complex about women by now but apparently not...

[johanna 11]

I got my girlfriend to play arma with me, jealous ;)

Not sure, have to see a pic first...

[ArmAriffic 10]

Not sure, have to see a pic first...

Were both 15, soz no pics :)

[Joshua the Grizzly 10]

Its not whether or not there are girls playing Arma. There are quite a few women in wars. You can say all about 'no front line duty', but many women in the US armed forces see combat anyway, because in the geurilla wars of Afghanistan and Iraq, there simply is no frontline... Oh. And there are pilots. So yeah, some women around would be nice. And... let them carry weapons!

[dmarkwick 261]

I'm pretty amazed/impressed by the level of blatant sexism on display thus far in this thread

There are very real and pragmatic reasons for not having women in front line combat roles, now, you can easily apply the descriptive "sexist" because in it's literal sense it is, but it is not mysogynistic. It is pragmatics.

[KEVINMGXP 20]

@DMarkwick and Co

You're actually wrong, the reality is that there is absolutely no intelligent or a logical and sensible reason for women not to be in combat, with the technology of warfare we have to date woman are deployed on the battle field and verious other roles, on a surtain dagree we also have woman leading squads while serving their country and even on top of that you CO might be a woman! Oh darn sikes, now you need to listen to her :rolleyes: They are however in the minority because the job is not that atractive in their own opnion and a female would prefer more of a other role on the combat scene then actualy be in the front line! Like logistics, intelegence even snipers but this is a mere personal opnion of the female soldier it selves! The ones that are bashing this id are just in my opinion rediculously tripping about their masculinity, and that in a game :eek: you're in danger go figure that one out!?

The russian Army putted Moman on the battle field even in WW2, and still they are deploying females to add a surtain valleu to the army and if i remeber correct it is the same with other amry's! Army researchers came up with a new study that concludes that, when a woman is correctly trained, she can be as tough as any man. I believe i readed a report that was don on the institute of environmental medicine at Natick You don't need testosterone to be though, go do some reasearch before you're bashing on this id. A femal gives a imersive vallue on the battle field!

And for the record Females are activly deployed on the battle field!

FIRST WOMAN

SNIPER SCHOOL

NATIONAL GUARD BUREAU

CAMP ROBINS, ARK

10 APRIL 01

go do some reasearch thats all i am saying, @OP yes i love to see actualy females in ArmA3 deployed on the battle field if a soldier is trained it is trained, and when in real combat i doubt you will look at the soldiers boobs is it? :D

Kind regards

Edited May 24, 2011 by KBourne
damn gramma, sorry guy's :p

[r3volution 0]

I understand where you're coming from DMarkwick, and appreciate your cool-headed response.

I suppose regardless of the gender mechanics of whether or not its safe to actually have women on the field of battle, my point is that they are there. As others have said the shifting nature of guerilla warfare frequently places 'non-combatant' female soldiers into combat with the enemy and many nations have abolished restrictions on women serving in combat, as such I think its realistic to then have a small percentage of women present in the Arma3 military forces, or at least Bluefor/Independant side.

[mr. bravo 17]

Sweden has a lot of female soldiers too, in all sorts of roles, both here at home and in Afghanistan, Libya, Kongo, Kosovo, etc. Nothing wrong with that. So I'd very much appreciate official support and functions for adding female heads to soldiers by script or profiles.

But I can understand if it wouldnt be proper for some factions in the game. Still isnt reason enough to skip them completely though.

Mental strength, stamina and a clear cool mind exceeds rough physical strength any day. Know your weaknesses and compensate with your strengths ;) So women can definitely be just as badass and capable of fighting as any male.

[NoRailgunner 0]

What about some better pics?

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5449/013kk.jpg

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk10/djkaplin/Others/italian.jpg

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/6181/17113282.jpg

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5767/imagepopup.jpg

Sorry the picture of the swedish female cleaning her rifle is too hot for BIS devs... :D

Edited May 24, 2011 by NoRailgunner
damn Mr Bravo stop reading my mind!!

[Pyronick 21]

The funny thing is that here in The Netherlands we have a mention worthy amount of women in close combat roles in both the 11. Air Manoeuvre Brigade and the 43. Mechanized Brigade. They just aren't shipped in to combat AFAIK, but they are trained and capable. Only the Marine Corps and Submarine Service are not available for women, while the Commando Corps is.

I have seen German and Danish female soldiers in Wildflecken during combat training with the 1. German/Dutch Corps.

And I do know for a fact that France employs women in close combat roles. And then you obviously have Israel.

[KEVINMGXP 20]

The funny thing is that here in The Netherlands we have a mention worthy amount of women in close combat roles in both the 11. Air Manoeuvre Brigade and the 43. Mechanized Brigade. They just aren't shipped in to combat AFAIK, but they are trained and capable. Only the Marine Corps and Submarine Service are not available for women, while the Commando Corps is.

I have seen German and Danish female soldiers in Wildflecken during combat training with the 1. German/Dutch Corps.

And I do know for a fact that France employs women in close combat roles. And then you obviously have Israel.

Same here in belgium mate ;-) i don't see any reason not to have them, surtain country's will train them but not deploy them others will actualy deploy them.

kind regards

[PeterBitt 10]

you know the german KSK?

there are some women that do the tests to become a KSK soldier scince 2001, but never one single female made it into KSK because of lack of physical and mental strenght.

[Pyronick 21]

Same here in belgium mate ;-) i don't see any reason not to have them, surtain country's will train them but not deploy them others will actualy deploy them.

kind regards

Belgium, The Netherlands. There isn't really much difference IMO. :cool:

I mean if it weren't for the political crisis in Belgium in 2007 and the disintegration of the Dutch cabinet in 2006, the Air Component and the Royal Netherlands Airforce would likely have fused in 2012-2013.

Same for the Marine component and the Royal Netherland Navy.

We might actually still have our Leopards and Belgium could have kept or updated their Leopards 1s to Leopard 2s.

you know the german KSK?

there are some women that do the tests to become a KSK soldier scince 2001, but never one single female made it into KSK because of lack of physical and mental strenght.

The same applies to the KCT (Commando Corps) in the Royal Dutch Army. It's more or less the same as the KSK. They usually train together. Edited May 24, 2011 by SgtH3nry3

[max power 21]

you know the german KSK?

there are some women that do the tests to become a KSK soldier scince 2001, but never one single female made it into KSK because of lack of physical and mental strenght.

I don't doubt that, if there is a physical strength test that must be passed, less women than men will pass because they are smaller in size on average. However, this 'mental strength' bullshit is likely a euphemism for being hazed out of the application process.

[Mr. Charles 22]

you know the german KSK?

there are some women that do the tests to become a KSK soldier scince 2001, but never one single female made it into KSK because of lack of physical and mental strenght.

Yea, every man passes the tests, so the women are just wimpy :j:

[KEVINMGXP 20]

you know the german KSK?

there are some women that do the tests to become a KSK soldier scince 2001, but never one single female made it into KSK because of lack of physical and mental strenght.

well i know the russians have special forces snipers that are females, i don't think it is because they are female i think it is just all a state of hart and mind and how baddly you wan't to sucseed! Its nothing different for a male nor a female. I also think it is harder for a woman because the mere opinion of the mayoraty of the male soldier is hah a woman they can't do it! To be honnest to put that on the gender is plain and simple not right, maybe the training program needs to be fine tuned on the KSK i don't know but as said already if the female is trained propperly they can be as though as any male it is just a fact.

kind regards.

[dmarkwick 261]

go do some reasearch

I'm not denying the reality of it. I'm questioning the pragmatics of it. You can say what you like about the subject, but having females in front line combat has its issues, like it or not. I suggest that for a more efficient fighting force, we simply don't need to complicate such a visceral role with any more issues than necessary :)

As someone pointed out rather cleverly in this discussion, the first girl who gets a bullet in the face will be recieved differently from a man. But that is only one issue, IMO there are more.

[PeterBitt 10]

Yea, every man passes the tests, so the women are just wimpy :j:

cmon i didnt say that ... for sure MANY men fail in these tests, KSK are the thoughest of the tough. but it is a good example that women ARENT capable of some things that tough men can do.

@Max Power: mental strenght and mental balance are one of the major skills you need as a KSK member. i watched a very nice doku on "phoenix" with many interviews and stuff, and they said the main reasons for people failing in the tests are mental ones.

Edited May 24, 2011 by PeterBitt

[KEVINMGXP 20]

having females in front line combat has its issues, like it or not. I suggest that for a more efficient fighting force, we simply don't need to complicate such a visceral role with any more issues than necessary :)

Having males on the battle field has it issues also, it is how you approuch those issues that can solves them! Name some examples of the issue you can have with a female soldier on the battle field? Lets see how we put our vallues out on those ;) you would be suprised how they can easely be solved!

kind regards

[Panthro 10]

It is a fact that the human race as individuals devotes a huge amount of time & energy on sex & all it's precursor interactions, this is hard wired in the brain.

That goes for BOTH genders, not just men, as such it is only the warm and fuzzy logic of modern Political correctness that doesn't acknowledge these traits

as fundamental and undeniable, the last thing the forces need is extra complexity & unpredictable alliances in the field.

Oh and BTW in my clan we have a couple of female FPS players and one is a captain & has been since the early Desert Combat days.

WWW.G3TSOME.COM <---- blatant plug ;P

that said I hope they do make female soldiers

Edited May 24, 2011 by Panthro