ArmA 3 on Steamworks?

[Deadfast 43]

OK, complete, and partially true bullshit which doesn't concern me one bit when I have bought the fricking games and I simply own it because its my freakin money.

I have some bad news for you, you don't. You own a license that Valve could terminate at any point according to the EULA. Now it's the same thing with a physical copy although it's a bit more difficult to terminate the existence of a DVD on your shelf.

[hellfire257 3]

I would like to pay my money to BIS for a game. Why should I be forced to pay additional money to some lamers who give me "achivements" and "ingame chat" (or whatever lame function they have there)?!

+1

I'd rather not have Steam involved, it is just another thing to go wrong. What we have now works fine, IMO.

[Rebel44 10]

But it needs to run a client on your local machine. And whatever this client does, collecting any information or maybee changing something or something else, you allowed it. You don't have control in what they doing with it. This may break laws in some countries btw.

A lot of people claim about data protection when the goverment, police, secret service or whoever come with an idea about data collection, but easy give away the right of the information about themselves to steam, facebook and a lot of other so called "cool, must have (social) networks" (in this case let count steam as a network). This is crazy and stupid in my opinion.

And why the hell i have to run a (online) client for beeing allowed to play a single-player game? Makes no sense. That talking about illegal copies is only blabla and not a reason to do so.

That may not count only for steam there are others (origin for example). And the only reason is to make big money with it and doing it into that "big brother is watching you" direction.

The bad thing is, a lot of new games force you to install steam or similar clients and create an account. I might want to play such a game, but i dont bought and will never buy such a game.

1. If you think this is a problem, read Windows EULA...

2. I consider Valve to be trustworthy company

3. All my important data are encrypted and I have good backup solution.

[ninc00wtop 1]

1. If you think this is a problem, read Windows EULA...

2. I consider Valve to be trustworthy company

3. All my important data are encrypted and I have good backup solution.

1. Horrible logic. And people can install windows offline, at all times. And use it, hacks, etc. Programmers dream tbh.

2. No, thats your malinformed opinion, your opinion should not control fate.

3. Stupid comment, how does that even relate to the discussion at hand?

Ugh.

Stop.

[Ekko 1]

1. Horrible logic. And people can install windows offline, at all times. And use it, hacks, etc. Programmers dream tbh.

2. No, thats your malinformed opinion, your opinion should not control fate.

3. Stupid comment, how does that even relate to the discussion at hand?

Ugh.

Stop.

1. Its not horrible logic, since he is simply stating the obvious and that we customers accept some terms in many different mediums, whether you like it or not. Are you also trying to prove that Windows is a better product since it's easier cracked and abused? Well actually you can download a a pirated copy of steam which enables you to play all possible steam games offline, I just don't remember what it was called. Seems as if you should have stopped there.

2. Oh, so now you have the last word in his opinion huh? "I don't consider your considering valuable enough to control someone's fate" ?... whose fate? You really have something against this nice and optimistic fellow( my opinion, hehe).

3. "Oh I don't know how it relates to the discussion at hand," but maybe just look at what you wro--- oh!? its gone! I suppose you have beaten us... smart plan.

Ugh

And then you stopped.

So, you had 2 supid comments and him one! The winner is! You decide, leave the comments below :cool: Hehe I am such a bastard for responding... :(

Edited November 8, 2012 by Ekko

[ninc00wtop 1]

1. Its not horrible logic, since he is simply stating the obvious and that we customers accept some terms in many different mediums, whether you like it or not. Are you also trying to prove that Windows is a better product since it's easier cracked and abused? Well actually you can download a a pirated copy of steam which enables you to play all possible steam games offline, I just don't remember what it was called. Seems as if you should have stopped there.

2. Oh, so now you have the last word in his opinion huh? "I don't consider your considering valuable enough to control someone's fate" ?... whose fate? You really have something against this nice and optimistic fellow( my opinion, hehe).

3. "Oh I don't know how it relates to the discussion at hand," but maybe just look at what you wro--- oh!? its gone! I suppose you have beaten us... smart plan.

Ugh

And then you stopped.

So, you had 2 supid comments and him one! The winner is! You decide, leave the comments below :cool: Hehe I am such a bastard for responding... :(

This doesn't make any sense, why are gamers today in such a rush to handle power- unnecessarily- to third party vendors who should have no business in their First party to End user sale?

[Hicks_09 10]

This doesn't make any sense, why are gamers today in such a rush to handle power- unnecessarily- to third party vendors who should have no business in their First party to End user sale?

I think a lot of it comes down to (depending on perspective) laziness or convenience. People are more than ever in a rush to get what they want, as fast as they want with the minimum of effort. Regardless of what hoops they are having to jump through, consumer rights dispersed with and material worth discarded.

A lot of media has a throw away and disposable approach now. Books are on e-readers - they have no resale value or collectors value, little artistry or sense of ownership. They're just lumped onto an electronic device, used and discarded.

Music seems to fare better. Yes there is digital distribution that is popular. Vinyl and other hard copy mediums however are still popular for people that want ownership, collections and for some a sense of connection.

Film is more of a collectors area. Lots of varieties of editions, cuts, dubs. Harder to get hold of versions and scarcely released versions - just look at Disney. Look at the popularity of box sets as well. "Doing a marathon" doesn't really have the same ring to it when it's streaming or download versions.

I think because games tend to have a strong second hand market they have a tendency to now be perceived as a throw away medium. It's still a relatively young market and with youth tends to come laziness. Take into account that the major game markets are industrialised, high disposable income nations that have a tendency towards reliance on labour saving devices - which further imbues laziness and it starts to make sense.

A lot of that market either doesn't know or simply doesn't care (more likely) that not everyone has un-metered internet connections that would make Seoul blush. You can be reasonably sure though that when there is a hiccup in that service and they can't play the titles tied to their steam account however that they'll whine harder than anyone. They demand everything instantly.

They're not particularly interested in consumer rights, why would they care? They got it on sale, they're not likely to replay the title, they've got a backlog of cheaply bought titles to grind through. If they are able to dispose of the title quickly and conveniently then all the better for them to continue voraciously consuming media. I find it more interesting that a service like gog that is drm free comes out of Europe where consumer rights are taken more seriously than in the States.

In short: Ignorance, Apathy and yes... some people do simply like it. As long as there are choices then there isn't that much of a problem. It's only when it's forced as tying a title to Steam would do that the problems arise.

So they may fawn over Valve and have a perfect internet connection today -

How about when the Subscriber agreement slides into increasingly iffy territory (already happening), customer support gets worse (not great to begin with) and your internet connection becomes more unreliable? All the lame science jokes and digital hats in the world aren't going to help then.

Options and choice are good for consumers. If consumers become too lazy to make use of choice then they're asking to be bent over a barrel and treated lousy.

[pauliesss 2]

No, thanks.

[EDcase 87]

No thanks.

Reasons:

1. I make sure there are minimal processes running in the background.

2. I want to control how I run the game. (I have different icons for different versions and addons)

3. I want control of how I install plugins. (I've seen so many people with problems installing plugins with Steam)

Does the question really matter?

Aren't BIS going to release on Sproket, Steam & DVD anyway?

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Does the question really matter?

Aren't BIS going to release on Sproket, Steam & DVD anyway?

This,

I'm not sure some of the folk here are even aware steam is NOT a requirement for some games.

I only have steam because it is a requirement for Fallout 3 and Black Mesa. Other than Black Mesas connection to Valve there is still no logical reason to force me to use steam other than I wanted to play those games. I have purchased nothing from steam, required none of its functionality and have in fact given very little time to the games that made me install it in the first place. As I understand it steamworks takes invasiveness up a notch but would add nothing to what I can already do with the ArmA franchise.

(PS. maybe its some cult of the middle man)

[chortles 263]

Does the question really matter?

Aren't BIS going to release on Sproket, Steam & DVD anyway?

I'm not sure if DVD is going to happen this time around (Sleeping Dogs is an example of a title that got no PC retail disc release in America, even in Steamworks DVD form) but I was imagining that "BI Store" and Steam versions of ARMA 3 were going to happen anyway; in any case Ivan already said earlier this year that it wouldn't be using Steam Workshop.

I myself wouldn't mind ARMA 3 using Steamworks, but going by earlier BI statements it's not going to happen (and I imagine that there will be a Steam version of ARMA 3 anyway) so it's a non-issue as far as ARMA 3 goes -- you may reasonably expect the same amount of choice as before.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Is there something against enjoying A3 out of the box - without any need to register/subscribe somewhere?? Just simple install/setup and having fun with A3.... :)

[dsi24 12]

Seeing anti-steam people is so quaint, feels like VCR vs CDs.

[aviatormoser 6]

So much paranoia in this thread. At first I thought Steam was just an inconvenience for people to install and run. Now, I realize it's full-fledged fear. I'm pretty sure Steam may have saved PC gaming with their distribution model, but since they are successful, they must be trying to tread on its customers now.

With that logic, BIS is evil, because Arma II is a huge sales success with DayZ. I really don't understand the fear. Or maybe I'm just insensitive.

[Hicks_09 10]

So much paranoia in this thread. At first I thought Steam was just an inconvenience for people to install and run. Now, I realize it's full-fledged fear. I'm pretty sure Steam may have saved PC gaming with their distribution model, but since they are successful, they must be trying to tread on its customers now.

With that logic, BIS is evil, because Arma II is a huge sales success with DayZ. I really don't understand the fear. Or maybe I'm just insensitive.

Not insensitive really no. Just not concerned about the same things that people that don't want or need a superfluous third party drm client are.

PC Gaming didn't need "saving" it's contentedly kept on trundling no matter what has happened. Steam and the other digital distributors have provided another retail outlet, that's all. Some of them however have forced obnoxious drm schemes on top - Valve, EA, Ubisoft while others have gone drm free - gog/CD Projekt. That's all.

[cossack8559 10]

In my opinion, Steam is one of the best things that has happened to PC gaming, I've been using it since 2005, i remeber the first retail game i bought that required me to use Steam, i was annoyed that i had to download a program and run it just to play a game.

After a couple of months it soon changed my opinion, never having to search the net for updates, having all of my friends and games in one place and being able to chat with them through steam even if we were playing different games.

I would love Steam integration, make it optional for the paranoid, but if i am to buy a retail version allow me to enter my code into Steam so that i can link it to my Steam account. This would be great for me as i still love to buy the hard copy of these games as well as use Steam.

[kilroy the nerd 14]

What ArmAriffic said. Trying to get everything to work properly with Steam is a real pain. I like Steam for some things, and ArmA is not one of them. ArmA+Steam=clusterfuck

Also, anything that is running on your computer will take up resources. The fewer, the more precious resources go to the game running. Do please correct me if I'm wrong, though.

Also, didn't we already have an ArmA 2 Steam thread?

[chortles 263]

After a couple of months it soon changed my opinion, never having to search the net for updates, having all of my friends and games in one place and being able to chat with them through steam even if we were playing different games.

Boom, and here we've got the fundamental divide between "why people would be okay with Steam" and "why people are suspicious of Steam WRT Bohemia Interactive"...

Incidental note: I doubt that the Steam code idea will work quite as well as you imagine -- see, while still-sealed copies of PlayStation 3 version of Portal 2 came with Steam key vouchers, they required that a Steam account be created and linked with a corresponding PlayStation Network account, and to date the PS3-related aspects of the Steam client on PC to my knowledge only deal with Portal 2, while to date any Steam functionality on PSN only exists inside Portal 2, so it was basically "get your game on two separate hardware platforms"... doesn't seem be as simple or in BI's interest to give out two "keys" (one physical, one digital) to a single-platform game.

What ArmAriffic said. Trying to get everything to work properly with Steam is a real pain. I like Steam for some things, and ArmA is not one of them. ArmA+Steam=clusterfuck

That suggests that the problem is with the existing game... and "problems with ARMA 2" is part of why we're getting ARMA 3, it looks like. :p I'm left thinking of Ivan's comment that the Steam infrastructure was so different from what BI devs and modders were used to as a reason for not using Steam Workshop... not a negative against Steam, just that implicitly it's "easier to keep on doing what we were doing already than have to learn something new", especially if there's already a planned solution for "making the mod scene easier".

[sapped 10]

keep on crying steam fanboys, the ArmA series is NOT and will NEVER become a steamwork game, cry in ur little corners more

[[frl]myke 14]

keep on crying steam fanboys, the ArmA series is NOT and will NEVER become a steamwork game, cry in ur little corners more

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[Haystack15 10]

I'm fine with Steamworks in ARMA III, only if it comes with the version bought off steam. However If it came with the DVD I version bought from some other vendor then no.

However, if Steamworks included my giant robot bunny that shoots slushies I wished for, then I'll buy.

[Smurf 12]

Steamworks means it NEEDS Steam, there is no "Steamworks free" version, don't matter where you bought it (still you are free to buy it anywhere and activate it in Steam).

The main advantage of a game beign Steamworks is the Workshop stuff, but as we don't know what BIS is planning for mod download\management (somekind of SU\Battlelog?....), hard to say anything.

[blu3sman 11]

That suggests that the problem is with the existing game... and "problems with ARMA 2" is part of why we're getting ARMA 3, it looks like. :p I'm left thinking of Ivan's comment that the Steam infrastructure was so different from what BI devs and modders were used to as a reason for not using Steam Workshop... not a negative against Steam, just that implicitly it's "easier to keep on doing what we were doing already than have to learn something new", especially if there's already a planned solution for "making the mod scene easier".

So if a game doesnt deal well with some 'cool' unnecessary restricting fascist 3rd party app, the problem is in the game; and devs are just too lazy to learn something new..

Wonders of human logic.

[chortles 263]

So if a game doesnt deal well with some 'cool' unnecessary restricting fascist 3rd party app, the problem is in the game; and devs are just too lazy to learn something new..

Wonders of human logic.

since playing Star Trek Online I really do believe this about some devs :lol: Seriously though, it's the conclusion I drew when that remark was made, since to me it would have been enough for Ivan to say that BI didn't want the modding interface to be tied to a particular distribution network, that was a good enough reason not to use Steam Workshop anyway. :rolleyes: In any case, you consider Steam an "unnecessary restricting fascist 3rd party app"... I don't, Cossack8559 doesn't, and for me a "unified game library" is reason enough to use it. Heck, I already had retail discs for A2 and OA but I've shoved them onto a shelf and then bought ARMA 2 and OA on Steam. :p

Steamworks means it NEEDS Steam, there is no "Steamworks free" version, don't matter where you bought it (still you are free to buy it anywhere and activate it in Steam).

The main advantage of a game beign Steamworks is the Workshop stuff, but as we don't know what BIS is planning for mod download\management (somekind of SU\Battlelog?....), hard to say anything.

You're correct in that there's no such thing as "Steamworks free", but you can't activate a non-Steam copy on Steam, only add a shortcut to your Steam Library list for ARMA 2 as a non-Steam game, and I'm not aware of Steam keys for ARMA being sold anywhere else except Steam and the BI Store.

As I said before, ARMA 3 is not using Steam Workshop, and apparently Steamworks is a requirement for Steam Workshop anyway. Six-related applications (such as SixUpdater and SixLauncher) and DayZ Commander are the seemingly two most popular models for existing ARMA 2 mod use, but I imagine that a "built in/bundled" mod user interface for ARMA 3 won't look anything like Battlelog... although I find the "Internet page" server browser model interesting (yes I Alt+Tab that much) there's also such limitations for Battlelog (no dev-sanctioned mods, use of Punkbuster, the emphasis on "stat tracking" and of course so many ads) that we may not be able to draw any other usable ideas from it.

EDIT: I believe that what Night said is true, that ARMA 3 will continue to have Steam and non-Steam distribution, and that the only undiscovered element is what the new mod interface will be like (except "not Steamworks").

Edited November 11, 2012 by Chortles

[Night 1]

I would like to see BIS carry on with how they have the game set out now, in terms of sales. You can buy it for steam, From BIS directly with Sprocket or retail and have it work each and every way. Regardless of anything else this just lets people have their own personal prefrence.