ArmA 3 on Steamworks?

[Nicholas 5]

BIS makes more money per sale off of Sprocket, because they own it, why would they dump this?

They can still sell games via sprocket of course!! Just like how COD was released with Steamworks, yet it was still sold at Walmart and various other video game retailers. Just have deeper integration with steam so people can easily join a friends game or invite a friend to join them. As I said, perhaps make it optional if it's possible.

Steam Integration - On/Off

Edited May 22, 2011 by Nicholas

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

All of your arguments are null.

Are you an idiot? :confused: How did you come up with that conclusion? How are any of my points null/invalid/etc.?

If you make it so a game requires Steam, then you have to get a steam account and be ONLINE WHEN YOU INSTALL IT. Not only that, but when you first install it it patches the game whether you want it to or not, and you HAVE NO CHOICE in the matter.

Then there's the bandwidth issue. That alone would prevent a large portion of the world, including alot of Australia, New Zealand, even parts of the U.S. (Alot of people have bandwidth caps or very slow speeds, even with the new tech) from playing the game they just bought at a store.

So please, pull your head out of your hindquarters. :j:

Edited May 22, 2011 by Darkhorse 1-6

[Cookieeater 10]

Are you an idiot? :confused: How did you come up with that conclusion? How are any of my points null/invalid/etc.?

If you make it so a game requires Steam, then you have to get a steam account and be ONLINE WHEN YOU INSTALL IT.

Then there's the bandwidth issue. That alone would prevent a large portion of the world, including alot of Australia, New Zealand, even parts of the U.S. (Alot of people have bandwidth caps or very slow speeds, even with the new tech) from playing the game they just bought at a store.

So please, pull your head out of your hindquarters. :j:

Sorry, I was acting a bit mean back there with that statement. Anyways, when a game requires Steam, you can still install from the disc. Games on Steam don't require having to download it from the internet. The bandwidth issue is non existent, because you can still buy physical copies of games that require Steam from any game store out there. When you buy a physical copy of a game, it only requires you to be online when it's installing from the DVD. And who doesn't have internet now a days?

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

People living in middle Tennessee as one example, Aussies, Kiwis, i'd assume Tasmanians :p generally people from every country except Sweden. ;)

I actually have 2 options for internet out here in the TN boonies.

#1 - HughesNet satellite internet, where you pay an outrageous amount for less than 500mb a month IIRC

#2 - Tethering my Verizon cellphone to my PC and using it's 3G internet. I got lucky and found a legal Android app that allows me to use my phones unlimited data plan, instead of paying $50 a month for 2GB with Verizon's tethering plan.

I can play ArmA, BF2, etc. and get fairly decent ping considering I'm running my internet off a cellphone i have to place on a window sill (to ensure it gets a good signal) but it downloads slow, and updating OA has taken 4 days using it with Steam in the past.

*Edit*

Yes, it only requires you to be online while you install, but then as soon as it finishes the installation it automatically starts patching it, and you can't stop it.

Edited May 22, 2011 by Darkhorse 1-6

[Cookieeater 10]

People living in middle Tennessee as one example, Aussies, Kiwis, i'd assume Tasmanians :p generally people from every country except Sweden. ;)

I actually have 2 options for internet out here in the TN boonies.

#1 - HughesNet satellite internet, where you pay an outrageous amount for less than 500mb a month IIRC

#2 - Tethering my Verizon cellphone to my PC and using it's 3G internet. I got lucky and found a legal Android app that allows me to use my phones unlimited data plan, instead of paying $50 a month for 2GB with Verizon's tethering plan.

I can play ArmA, BF2, etc. and get fairly decent ping considering I'm running my internet off a cellphone i have to place on a window sill (to ensure it gets a good signal) but it downloads slow, and updating OA has taken 4 days using it with Steam in the past.

Yes, but you do realize, how are you going to patch OA without the internet? One of your main complaints is patching and auto updating, but why would it matter auto updating in Steam, when without it, you would have to manually download it from BIS? You'll still need the internet any either way. So, why not buy a physical copy of ArmA III when it has Steamworks? You can leave Steam offline forever if you want to, you can disable it from auto updating and download your patches manually. Theres no difference in getting ArmA III with Steamworks and ArmA III without Steamworks, except that you'll have to leave Steam on for 5 minutes while it's installing. Everyone else who leaves Steam on gets to have goodies such as stats, server browser, and more.

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Everyone else who leaves Steam on gets to have goodies such as stats, server browser, and more.

Thats no reason for steam to be forced upon the people who have no desire to use it.

[Cookieeater 10]

It is a reason, as it progresses ArmA III in it's accessibility for everyone else. We can debate about this all day, but ArmA III's Steamwork will be decided on by the community as a whole, and not a minority, nor a one and one conversation. You have to break a few eggs to make an omelet.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Thats no reason for steam to be forced upon the people who have no desire to use it.

That's a pretty lame argument. Isn't the typical response around here "nobody's forcing you to buy/play it?" Same goes with Steamworks integration.

My point is, you can't always make things optional. Sometimes in order to bring new enhancements you have to add additional requirements. It's just like ArmA 3 having more intensive hardware requirements; are you going to say these new requirements shouldn't be forced on those of us who have no desire to have improved graphics or physics in the game?

Like I said before, the vast majority of anti-steam people here are always unable to come up with any valid reasons for objection. I'm not saying there aren't any valid reasons for objection (I can think of several), but the ones people use tend to be misinformed or just plain untrue.

Edited May 22, 2011 by Big Dawg KS

[metalcraze 290]

But guys! guys!

Steam has ACHIEVEMENTS! I mean you can show off to your friends who have the exactly same achievements how awesome you are.

Who cares about being forced to use only Steam's server browser and not being able to use the one you prefer, only Steam's anti-cheat that devs have no say about. And hugeass patches. And mods not working. And no modselectors. And being eternally stuck with a crappy DRM.

Who cares about that when you can select your userpic and everyone will see it! That's so awesome!

[Big Dawg KS 6]

And mods not working. And no modselectors. And being eternally stuck with a crappy DRM.

And this is exactly what I was talking about with the misinformation and lies...

Also, you'd be surprised how many customers Steam achievements can bring in. Even if people only buy the game for achievement-whoring purposes, it's still good for the devs.

[Tonmeister 14]

"Steam sux!!"

well you said it.. not me

[metalcraze 290]

Also, you'd be surprised how many customers Steam achievements can bring in. Even if people only buy the game for achievement-whoring purposes, it's still good for the devs.

And that's another reason why it shouldn't be Steam-only and have Steamworks.

Players who want to measure their e-peen should stay away from ArmA.

Who cares about more players if they are going to be junk ruining the game for everyone who wants to play the game not be "awesome"?

[Mr. Charles 22]

I like Steam, but not in my ArmA, nuff said

[Tonmeister 14]

But guys! guys!

Steam has ACHIEVEMENTS! I mean you can show off to your friends who have the exactly same achievements how awesome you are.

Who cares about being forced to use only Steam's server browser and not being able to use the one you prefer, only Steam's anti-cheat that devs have no say about. And hugeass patches. And mods not working. And no modselectors. And being eternally stuck with a crappy DRM.

Who cares about that when you can select your userpic and everyone will see it! That's so awesome!

thats awesome. there is no substitute for awesomeness. look how awesome i am. I'm pumping my awesome chest. awesome....

@ BigDawgKS "Like I said before, the vast majority of anti-steam people here are always unable to come up with any valid reasons for objection. "

I've got one. Its just doesn't suite me. It's as simple as that and I couldn't care less if steam was the best piece of middleware out there.

Edited May 22, 2011 by Ebolavirus

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Who cares about more players if they are going to be junk ruining the game for everyone who wants to play the game not be "awesome"?

And how would they be ruining the game? They buy it, play it for the achievements, then move on. Why should you care so much?

---------- Post added at 03:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:48 AM ----------

Its just doesn't suite me.

Yep. Exactly my point. Like I said though, if it doesn't suit you then don't buy it, right?

What if I told you that not having 100% steam integration doesn't suit me? Of course, how could BIS not realize that... it's out of the question now.

And this is why there can be no constructive discussions about Steamworks on these forums. :confused_o:

[NoRailgunner 0]

Not long ago BIS made a poll about "Steam only distribution" and the majority of people voted - no.

Maybe its possible for BIS/publishers to keep all kind of distribution channels? All people would have a chance to buy+play A3 how they like. Just avoiding dependency, regulations and delays from a single "saviour"... ;)

Sure Steam's "epic Sales everyday & holdiday!!1!11" marketing is addicting to many people... But is it worth to sell great game only via Steam?

[Primarch 10]

But guys! guys!

Steam has ACHIEVEMENTS! I mean you can show off to your friends who have the exactly same achievements how awesome you are.

Who cares about being forced to use only Steam's server browser and not being able to use the one you prefer, only Steam's anti-cheat that devs have no say about. And hugeass patches. And mods not working. And no modselectors. And being eternally stuck with a crappy DRM.

Who cares about that when you can select your userpic and everyone will see it! That's so awesome!

Please, just go away. You have no credibility in any discussion after you said DX 11 is useless. You are troll.

On topic: Steamworks integration would be cool, make it so it has the server browser. I don't really care about anything else. If you have problems either running the steam so it takes resources of your computer too much you need to go away and play some dosbox games since it's already year 2011, I have no problems when some program takes 6megs of my ram. If you do, how about you start upgrading your PC since you can't play anything past 2000. The problem is at your end if you have issues with the DRM, mods and patches.

[warrick 10]

I don't get it why distribution isn't good as is now. You can play through steam if you bought that version, the others have sprocket and the dvd version. There is no point forcing steam on all.

Anyways, only the steam version should get this integration, if any. In this case, maybe everyone would be happy :).

Edited May 22, 2011 by warrick

[Tonmeister 14]

Yep. Exactly my point. Like I said though, if it doesn't suit you then don't buy it, right?

What if I told you that not having 100% steam integration doesn't suit me? Of course, how could BIS not realize that... it's out of the question now.

And this is why there can be no constructive discussions about Steamworks on these forums. :confused_o:

well that would be a sad day for me if Arma went over to steam. because no, i would not purchase it. my opinions about steam are for me and i don't wish to express them in this forum based on the implication of "uninformed, technical dunce or proliferating lies". which doesn't help if your after constructive discussions.

[neokika 62]

Hi,

I have to fully agree with Big Dawg KS, steam+arma myths:

• You need steam on to run Arma steam version! -WRONG (No need to even turn ON steam to play, you can play steamLess anytime, just like non-steam versions)
  
• MODS work differently then non-steam! -WRONG (They work EXACTLY the same way)
  
• Patches in steam are always late! -WRONG (Latest patches from BIS work in both steam and non-steam)
  

_neo_

[Deadfast 43]

If I buy a game on DVD at the shop I expect it to contain the following thing:

• Visual C++ Redistributable 20xx - because the game was compiled on a VC++ compiler
  
• DirectX Redistributable - I'm usually up-to-date but why not
  
• DRM - because the world is doomed but that's a different story
  
• The Game - well, yeah...
  

Nowhere on the list is an online distribution platform.

I accept Steam for what it is, I have it installed and I have bought a few games with it. Games that require Steam because I bought them on Steam, makes sense. But for a retail game to force me to install Steam? No, thanks.

• You need steam on to run Arma steam version! -WRONG (No need to even turn ON steam to play, you can play steamLess anytime, just like non-steam versions)
  

With Steamworks that would change. No Steam, no game.

[neokika 62]

With Steamworks that would change. No Steam, no game.

Hey,

That is true, but there are some interesting things that make Steam appealing:

• Environment friendly ;)
  
• Easy marketing
  
• Perfect for Independent Developers
  
• More profitable since hard copies costs money and more then 50% never get sold (Already conflicting with the first point)
  

Anyway, in my opinion there should always be a retail option, I just feel that people tend to hate Steam before they even try it. :D

_neo_

[sethos 2]

Most of the gaming market and its fanbase has embraced Steam as its an improvement, not BIS nor many of the narrowminded fans. There's a reason why the Steam version of ArmA 2 is a broken mess, because it wasn't made with Steam in mind. Actually creating it to support and work with Steam would solve that right away. Imagine cloud saving of profiles, saves and settings - So when you re-install, all your settings and profiles are restored. Imagine a stats tracking system, there's a lot of potential in Steamworks.

Steamworks is the way to go, definitely - I couldn't live without Steam, don't have to download patches and shit, just click when you want to play and the game is ready to go.

Edited May 22, 2011 by Sethos

[Deadfast 43]

Hey,

That is true, but there are some interesting things that make Steam appealing:

• Environment friendly ;)
  
• Easy marketing
  
• Perfect for Independent Developers
  
• More profitable since hard copies costs money and more then 50% never get sold (Already conflicting with the first point)
  

Anyway, in my opinion there should always be a retail option, I just feel that people tend to hate Steam before they even try it. :D

_neo_

You (and a large number of others) are confusing Steam and Steamworks, they aren't the same.

Steam is a game distribution platform.

Steamworks is an API that when built into a game forces you to use Steam, even if you bought the game retail.

I have no issue with the former (and I actually use it too) but strongly object to the second.

[neokika 62]

You (and a large number of others) are confusing Steam and Steamworks, they aren't the same.

Steam is a game distribution platform.

Steamworks is an API that when built into a game forces you to use Steam, even if you bought the game retail.

I have no issue with the former but strongly object to the second.

Wait mate,

All I was saying was that I agree with Big Dawg KS when he says that most people simply don't accept steam and then create these myths about it that are not true.

I have not said that I wanted steam-works, or did I even mentioned it, all I was trying to do was to show that some, if not most of these "issues" are myths. That's why I gave the example of the mod management etc.

I don't even think Steam-works fits Arma games, or even bring something new/good to it.

With that said, I see steam has a great platform, good for players and even better for Developers and to our beloved environment. ;)

_neo_