Realtime immersive - Militar simulator cryengine

[bobocz 10]

as far i know Unity Engine, CryEngine and Real Virtuality compete in the serious games area ...

because there are lot of money involved it's obvious there will more companies trying more engines and weird combinations to get foothold into the market

I understand that they compete in this area, but I'm curious, what Intelligent Decisions (not Crytec company) want to use for project Dismount soldier (they won contract in spring for 57 million dollars).

Current dismount soldier description (with interesting videos):

http://www.intelligent.net/idweb/company/dismountedsoldier.html

you can see they are using VBS2.

but

older article http://www.innovationnewsdaily.com/army-virtual-reality-training-games-2037/, they talked about CryEngine3.

extract:

...... Through the video screens, the participant sees a digital version of the battlefield, generated by the most powerful graphics the video game world has to offer. The virtual realism also extends to facial expressions, as well as footprints on the ground or disturbed soil that might indicate a hidden roadside bomb, said Floyd West, program manager for Dismounted Soldier at Intelligent Decisions in Orlando, Fla.

"An IED (improvised explosive device) might be spotted based on disturbed soil or the variation in the color of cement," West told InnovationNewsDaily. "If you can't provide that level of detail, they can't get the training they need."

So what they want to use? VBS2 or CryEngine3, or both?

Maybe now Arma 2 engine (RV3) fulfil requirements for virtual reality? :confused:

Edited December 15, 2011 by BoboCZ

[Dwarden 1124]

well as we all know the VBS2 version 1.5 and 2.0 does offer huge jump in what VBS2 was, is and will be

and sometimes risk with new engine is not worth it if it may cost you loss of dozens of millions contract

[metalcraze 290]

In that I/ITSEC they very much shown VBS2 through virtual glasses. Guess shaders and polys are not as important as features eh?

(I would've wished to play through such system with friends :> Wonder how moving forward and sideways is done)

[nodunit 397]

Neat I guess..but when you think about it, it's still as far away removed from the actual motion compared to a mouse..sure you can..march and turn a bit but the degrees of which are very limited since you have to eyes and motion on screen.

If the point is to get immersed then the glasses are definately the better avenue..otherwise it looks more like 360 motion control or whatever that thing is called.. You can't get as immersed because your eyes still see the room and the focal point is the screen, and you see what your avatar sees, not what "you" see.

Edited December 15, 2011 by NodUnit

[dm 9]

Seems very clumsy to me (the not-related-to-RTI-kinect-video), google searches for the USMC FITE project (wearable PCs with goggles and motion tracking) should return some pretty interesting stuff about how they are currently doing this kind of movement tracking (with VBS)

[abs 2]

Seems very clumsy to me (the not-related-to-RTI-kinect-video), google searches for the USMC FITE project (wearable PCs with goggles and motion tracking) should return some pretty interesting stuff about how they are currently doing this kind of movement tracking (with VBS)

I was thinking the same thing. Who has the time to slow march like that just to walk forward? Also, what if you had to turn 180 degrees or hit the dirt?

Not impressed.

Abs

[msy 22]

Here's a new WIP video

The FLIR and NVG looks really nice!

Look again from 0:47

Can you see the driver behind glass by FLIR in real life?

Edited December 15, 2011 by W0lle
quoted image/video

[metalcraze 290]

But maaan it isn't ready yet - weapons lacking recoil and held perfectly straight while moving, walls not changing bullet trajectory, FLIR seeing through glass, overexaggerated bullet hits and explosions, soldier not reacting to a bomb blowing up 5 meters away, radioactive glowing sky, godrays, sun rays from a nonblinding sun are there unintentionally - you look at wrong things there

You gotta look at teh grafix! What else is important in a game trying to simulate reality?

[walker 0]

Hi all

Part of the problem with the cry engine is that the game itself is aimed at a less discerning and demanding audience. Essentially the quick fix console crowd, not exactly fertile ground for a complex versatile training package.

This makes a cry engine based military simulator a fundamentally flawed concept from the start. They have then compounded their errors by focusing on primes rather than the customer. They are part cause of what engender the plethora of graphical and even dangerous physical errors turning up in the products that use it as a simulation tool and the massive cost of what is nothing more than a poor imitation of VBS. This prime controlled product still remains primarily a tool to extract cost plus projects out of the tax payer. It already costs three times what VBS has and it is not even in the ballpark as far as international adoption that VBS has where it has become the de-facto simulation engine of choice for NATO.

The fact that these cry engine based products demand high end hardware for virtually no training gain and seem not to be interoperable means only fools will adopt them. I remain of the same view as I had back in those earlier and more complex analysis posts I made in this thread.

By the way there are several companies already using VBS to do the same things that these cry engine products are mimicking, while each VBS product remains interoperable; as others have pointed out just do a Google search. This stuff just ain't new anymore.

Kind regards walker

Edited December 15, 2011 by walker
grammar

[Dwarden 1124]

I was thinking the same thing. Who has the time to slow march like that just to walk forward? Also, what if you had to turn 180 degrees or hit the dirt?

Not impressed.

Abs

try overlap your legs for constant turning and at same moment hit the dirt ...

feel sorry for the person trying it :)

[froggyluv 2130]

Strange that the Army is so enarmored with higher fidelity graphics for a training tool. I guess now we know why VBS launched that report disputing the effectivness of higher graphics in training applications.

I thought VBS2.0 had Arma2's graphics and those are pretty damn photorealistic tho maybe not quite as "pleasant" to look at as Cry's.

I wonder if they are also meaning animation/physics as part of their "high fidelity" definition.

[Cripsis 10]

Strange that the Army is so enarmored with higher fidelity graphics for a training tool.

I read in a press release that the Dismounted Soldier Training System provides the ability to show human expressions for fear, anger and aggression and that an expressionless face can actually introduce negative training.

[nodunit 397]

I thought the idea for training was simulation of equipment, tactics and getting used to them before employing them in the real world. A bit like flight simulators that pilots go through..I didn't realise we were becoming "VR soldiers"

[metalcraze 290]

I read in a press release that the Dismounted Soldier Training System provides the ability to show human expressions for fear, anger and aggression and that an expressionless face can actually introduce negative training.

OK this is getting ridiculous. But something tells me DSTS isn't too popular among military.

[nodunit 397]

I thought the idea for simulation was a cheaper way to get familiar with equipment, tactics and so on before employing them in the real world. A bit like flight simulators that pilots go through..I didn't realise we were becoming "VR soldiers"

[4 IN 1 0]

It is to my understanding that USArmy always do that, and result in a lots of money wasted in the progress.

[Cripsis 10]

I thought the idea for simulation was a cheaper way to get familiar with equipment, tactics and so on before employing them in the real world. A bit like flight simulators that pilots go through..I didn't realise we were becoming "VR soldiers"

The military is starting to use computer simulations to teach observational skills, for example soldiers must find the differences between 2 scenes in a short amount of time, each time a new scene is displayed the soldiers are given less time to spot differences.

[nodunit 397]

I sure hope that they wouldn't rely on computers to do all the scene spotting, what we see on computers and how well we see it varies greatly from how well we see in the real world. I sure hope we aren't moving further and further to an era where we let the simulations do all the training, reading a text book a dozen times is great but it counts for jack until you get hands on experience.

Weapons accuracy, body memory, fear..these aren't things you can perfectly emulate, there is always some variable that in the end just won't beat going out to the range or crawling under a barbed wire low fence while bullets whiz over your head. It should get you ready for some things, not be a back door out to provide training for all things..and the idea of trying to simulate fear and other things sounds disturbing..there is a great difference between acting under stress in a game and acting under stress in real life and likewise the reactions that come from that.

Edited December 16, 2011 by NodUnit

[Cripsis 10]

I sure hope that they wouldn't rely on computers to do all the scene spotting

Don't worry, the troops are encouraged to play these simulations in their own time on their own accord.

[Dwarden 1124]

The military is starting to use computer simulations to teach observational skills, for example soldiers must find the differences between 2 scenes in a short amount of time, each time a new scene is displayed the soldiers are given less time to spot differences.

rendered scenes or photos?

cause rendering correctly photo-realistic scenes is dream all simulations and games will try to reach for many years to come

[Cripsis 10]

rendered scenes or photos?

Both rendered scenes and rendered stillframes.

[Dwarden 1124]

Both rendered scenes and rendered stillframes.

unless some really advanced renderer used then i fear that could be quite misleading as e.g. correct tonemapping (shades of grey, colors) is often doom of many resulting pics ...

[Cripsis 10]

unless some really advanced renderer used then i fear that could be quite misleading as e.g. correct tonemapping (shades of grey, colors) is often doom of many resulting pics ...

Marines at Camp Lejeune helped develop some of these games, one is used for Scout Sniper training. IMHO the graphics are actually inferior to those in ARMA 2 but the lighting is pretty good.

[Choki 10]

Bye arma!

[NielsS 10]

Bye arma!

Bye Choki!

What racks my brain is that they use VBS2 and want higher fidelity graphics and then turn to Cryengine 3? Really??! Cryengine 3 is just a watered down version of Cryengine 2 to make it work on consoles with some flashy and blurry effects added to please the kids.

Unless they plan to use this simulator for Xbox Kinect i don't see this working at all.:confused: