AI Still Stubborn

[JuggernautOfWar 1]

So I thought they fixed the stubborn AI problem. I'm using the most recent beta build and the AI still stick in the combat mode, thus ignoring all orders.

[enad 11]

So I thought they fixed the stubborn AI problem. I'm using the most recent beta build and the AI still stick in the combat mode, thus ignoring all orders.

UGH. I had that happen to me yesterday. It is seriously annoying.

Done clearing out all the hostiles, yet they wont change to safe or aware and continue to go prone and crawl around randomly.

I feel your pain man.

[JuggernautOfWar 1]

[72966] Fixed: AI stuck while in combat/stealth mode

Seems they thought they fixed it.

[muttly 10]

Yeah happened to me also yesterday taking them 10 min to get into a jeep.

[Zipper5 74]

Do you mean they stop moving or they get locked into Combat mode until the last enemy they know of is killed? That fix was for a bug where they stopped moving entirely when entering Combat or Stealth. The forcing of Combat mode, which only occurs when the unit detects he's being engaged, lasts until all the enemy units posing a threat to him have been eliminated or have fled. He acts just like he would if you put him into Combat mode manually in that regard.

Frankly they're not hard to control if you know the AI workings well enough. I could do without the feature personally, but I often stick the AI in Combat mode when engaging the enemy so I'm used to how they work when in that mode. Get in some practice if you must.

[trooper117 10]

I'm well aware of the AI's niggles and faults.. but when you are in the middle of a battle and you want one of your AI to move rapidly to a vehicle and man a grenade launcher, its vital he moves there pretty damn quick, mount and man the gun so you can order him to engage. If you quickly set him to safe or aware so that he can get there asp, it's bloody annoying when he won't come out of combat mode and takes several minutes to get his arse in the vehicle, and by then its to late.

The AI command and control system still has a ways to go in my opinion.. and no amount of just 'practice' is going to solve the issue, especially when speed and accuracy of action is vital.

[mrcash2009 0]

Just to let you know this fix wasn't to do with what you are all referring to (I confused it with the same thing too).

It was actually a bug introduced in the previous beta to that fix where under certain condition (I think way-point mode) things were permanently stuck in modes without changing.

So it was a fix of a beta issue.

I for one was looking forward to telling my men to be aware while they were in danger, but no luck :(

It really would be nice if it had an override, becuase as much as its realistic for AI to act like they are in danger and take precautions, the knock on effect of how they act in that mode against a situation where there now is no danger but they take time to realise = the issue.

Or even in situations you need to get them to get out fast.

Edited September 11, 2010 by mrcash2009

[Zipper5 74]

You can actually learn how they best work when in Danger mode with enough practice. For example, I completed AnimalMother's Reaper mission just now without losing a single team mate, yet they were always engaging, being shot at, and in forced Danger mode. And this isn't a one-off; rarely do I lose many AI-controlled team mates when playing in SP because of how long I've spent working with them. If you spend long enough you'll be the same.

However, I'm not defending the issue raised, I too would like it changed back, I'm just arguing the notion that it's impossible to control them when they're Danger-forced. ;)

Edited September 12, 2010 by Zipper5
Beating instead of being :facepalm:

[mrcash2009 0]

Ignore I misread.

[Baz 0]

In my demonstration video of several combat modes in my combat mode video, which is quite long. The AI seem to not get stuck on the danger mode necessarily. It is only after all threats in the area are dead that the AI will return to the assigned combat mode I gave them prior to them setting their own danger combat mode automatically...

I demonstrated combat modes by having the AI 4 man fire team I was in command of clear a village which had a 5 man Takistani insurgent / militia patrol in it who had a seek and destroy waypoint in a placement radius of 250m. And were set to open fire, engage at will, and combat on that waypoint.

http://www.megavideo.com/?v=TJNGHNEE

What I found was the enemy AI troops were not sticking together too much, but at most were in 2 man fire teams and were constantly attempting to flank me on both sides and surround my team. And most of the times it would be individual enemy AI soldiers I would encounter trying to do this.

At one point in one of my demos I had an enemy automatic rifleman pose a serious threat to my team because he was at an elevated position on a hill overlooking the village and more specifically a corridor through a building that my team had just entered and was trying to pass through to gain entry to courtyard type of area.

My team was basically halted and took refuge in that corridor rather than venture outside. And this was all because of how my friendly AI was thinking... All I did was set them in a certain combat mode and give them a move waypoint.

If the AI finds it is not safe to move or advance to the waypoint I gave them, they will not do so haphazardly and yes, they will be methodical and slow about it.

[bigshot 64]

This new AI auto-danger mode has broken many missions and scripts (including norrins revive because the ai will often not go to revive when in auto danger). There needs to now be a user override "all clear" command available in-game and also that can be called by scripts such as for revive scripts.

I mean come on...if you're playing a mission where there's always enemy around somewhere within 1KM where ever you go the AI (with their god-like spotting abilities) will take forever to come out of danger mode.

When you play in a style that depends upon friendly AI to take certain actions and help you with certain tasks during situations like this or especially firefights, the game now shows in v1.54 how it's seriously broken, more than ever before (not that it was great before mind you, but now its unplayable for anything other than PvP).

**EDIT - the real issue here is that when a player or script gives a command to an AI teamate, the AI should respond to that command immediately (or within reason) regardless of which "mode" they are currently in. In this way the AI wouldn't have to switch "out" of combat mode but merely put their current mode in a sort of holding pattern until the user requested (or script requested) action is complete.

Edited September 11, 2010 by BigShot

[muttly 10]

Yeah was annoeying playing the dlc campaign yesterday.

I knew there was a tank over a hill 2000m or so away running there in combat mode would took ages so trying order my guys into a jeep and had to watch my medic run upto the car lay down then run off he repeated this for 10 min.

If i think its safe then i should be able to make the a.i go into safe mode practicing with a.i in combat mode got nothing to do with it.

[h - 169]

If i think its safe then i should be able to make the a.i go into safe mode practicing with a.i in combat mode got nothing to do with it.

^ this

I find it pretty dumb that the second in command is the only one who can declare all clear...

[st!gar 3]

**EDIT - the real issue here is that when a player or script gives a command to an AI teamate, the AI should respond to that command immediately (or within reason) regardless of which "mode" they are currently in. In this way the AI wouldn't have to switch "out" of combat mode but merely put their current mode in a sort of holding pattern until the user requested (or script requested) action is complete.

^ This, by the gods.

[JuggernautOfWar 1]

I still don't understand why BIS hasn't introduced a fix for it yet. How long has this been a problem? Since OA came out right?

[Zipper5 74]

It's been in the game since the beta patches before OA's release.

[AnimalMother92 10]

You can actually learn how they best work when in Danger mode with enough practice. For example, I completed AnimalMother's Reaper mission just now without losing a single team mate, yet they were always engaging, beating shot at, and in forced Danger mode. And this isn't a one-off; rarely do I lose many AI-controlled team mates when playing in SP because of how long I've spent working with them. If you spend long enough you'll be the same.

:couch:

Oh hi.

Just wait until you play the new version where I've added a trigger at the end that does setDamage on all your team ahahah.

But yeah I agree, the auto-danger mode is actually nice at times and I've gotten used to it. It makes the AI seem like they have some sense of self-preservation, and with Zeus AI your team mates are actually useful in combat. I do however feel that it's a bit overdone at times when I really want to gtfo and the AI prefer to belly-flop every 5 feet :rolleyes:

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

All we need is the ability to call clear like the other squad mates do.

[Decerto 10]

An extra command like "Move *wherever* NOW!" would be good so the AI know you want them to act in a hasty manner and not when they feel it's safe to do so. In real life commanders make orders that may get somone killed and we should be able to make the same decisions, we may lose a guy but the move to a location is so imperative to the outcome of the battle that it is worth the risk.

[muttly 10]

Dam wish i read more of the group link 4 manual yesterday thats got a FORCE MOVE command that you can use.

Surely not hard for bis put some thing like that in :rolleyes:

[Dwarden 1125]

got some simple sample mission of situation where the AI behaviour and modes break ?

also is it happening with latest public beta version ?

Edited September 12, 2010 by Dwarden

[Fox '09 14]

am i the only person in this thread who can't relate to this? the only time the ai are stubborn for me is when i try to get them to get in my car, there is always 1 guy who runs around for a 30 secs before getting in.

[JuggernautOfWar 1]

...Is it happening with latest public beta version ?

Yes it's happening with the latest beta build. Has been since one of the more recent ArmA 2 patches, and carried over into Operation Arrowhead.

EDIT: You can easily notice the red crosshair in your squad mate's icon. Even if there's no combat for five(!) minutes, if there's any enemy in a pretty huge radius of your squad they will all stay in "combat mode" thus ignoring all orders. Even if you tell them "at ease" they still tout that red crosshair and hunker down. Makes it next to impossible to quickly evac from an area, such as a CASEVAC.

What really pisses me off: If there's enemies within that 'danger radius' of your squad it doesn't even matter if they can see them or not. For example; I once had a team who were stuck in this "danger mode" because there were enemies nearby but hadn't been in a engagement for a few minutes. My team lost track of the enemies and were still in danger mode, but there was nothing in the target order menu because my team didn't see the enemies. Basically they thought there were enemies close by and wouldn't follow my orders because of this. In reality there was very little danger because of a lack of gunfire for a prolonged period of time, so they should have got up off their bellies and followed my orders.

Edited September 12, 2010 by JuggernautOfWar

[TheCrusader 10]

Agreed, was playing the campaign yesterday (using latest beta, but it happened before also) , clearing some villages and the AI took ages to get back into the stryker, even when all enemies were elminiated.

This dragged a 5 minute fight out into a 15min "make the AI get into the vehicle" order spamfest, which actually made me quit the mission.

So please fix that insofar as there is an order like "follow my orders NOW".

Autodangermode is nice and all but right now its terribly overdone to the point of making the AI useless in certain situations.

Cheers

Crusader

[mrcash2009 0]

I am going to have to agree on most here. Its not that it isn't useful or trying to be realistic, but if BIS insist that we need our team AI to "go in alone" with how they stay in threat mode, we as humans should at the very minimum have some kind of override for certain situations.

Situations that have been listed here. IE AI stay in danger "just in case" until they deem it "clear" when you as a human understand its "clear enough" becuase you want everyone to haul ass into a vehicle, flank or start to make some ground forward without delay. The delay with them covering, over watching, pausing, scanning in that mode makes vehicle loading and making a swift move the problem. In situation where there is a threat but not "right now" and you need to haul ass or want them to get in vehicle for cover or re-position/flank, they are more likely to be killed becuase of the time taken.

Maybe danger mode + move should have another option so when AI is under this perceived threat mode of their own choosing they still when directed to a vehicle move like you could have them move in "Aware / Crouched" style, swift steady crouched movement with some pace.

IE : "im fully aware we are in some danger lads, but get swiftly into that vehicle for cover!"

Its not about the feature and how danger mode works or how you can work around it, its ALL about "getting them out of it" or making them move faster while in it, or having some option to make them move quicker in the options/move commands.

Conclusion:

Please add ability /additional combination / option to make team AI in danger mode move like they do in aware mode (keeping them crouched also) .. before anyone picks me up on this, I dont mean have this always for danger mode it should behave as normal by default. I mean danger mode does the exact same thing , but we get "faster move ability" within it to select.

Then we all can be safe in our minds that if we are all in danger and need to shoot & scoot or get into a vehicle we know we can make them move quick, even while in danger, happy medium and all that.

It does come down in the end to what a few threads have been already mentioning "At all costs" and what was requested via GL4 mod also.

Edited September 12, 2010 by mrcash2009