AI Still Stubborn

[Baz 0]

well i experienced an odd problem in this user made campaign called Joint Operations... It does use a slew of addons but I have never really experienced this problem before in my playing of the game...

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=11418

long story short... When I would place my AI in the addon vehicles and I had a 4 man fireteam seperated as team red in a different vehicle...

They would not follow me in formation in the other vehicle or even move to a waypoint i gave them... They essentially would not listen.

I seemed to fix it after telling them to get out and back in again, after doing so myself in the other vehicle. But it would appear again sometimes... Dunno if it was the addons, CBA, the mission... The game engine perhaps???

[JuggernautOfWar 1]

Baz I think that is a problem with the mission itself, though unsure.

[rübe 127]

Why can only AI issue the "all clear" command? The player needs to be able to say that too, and not only if he's in charge, but also as a grunt under AI command. If the player says "all clear", then for the love of god ... it's all clear. :)

A big problem are also enemy units that get known to your group (thus switching to danger mode), but aren't any danger at all and soon gone again. For example have a vehicle drive by your group at some distance (say 300-500m), your group recognizes the vehicle, but the vehicle doesn't note you and simple drives along.. The problem here is, that the group will think like forever that they're still in danger, since the enemy vehicle is still alive. It's way too long in memory (knownTargets) or get's classified as dangerous for no good reason. Nobody is in immediate danger.

[Psycho78 10]

Maybe the AI need "threat levels", making spotting enemies, being spotted by enemies, and fired upon by enemies giving the AI increasing levels of self-preservation. But there should still be a "That's an ORDER!" option for commanders.

We also need demotion and court martial options. ;)

[Baz 0]

What I would like to see more of tho is the bounding movements, and suppressive fire usage... Mainly a kind of leap frog retreat and advance that you see small teams such as navy seals use IRL... Basically when the whole team needs to retreat, there is bounding movement along with suppressive fire used to effect a safe tactical retreat from a position while still laying down heavy fire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSj_Mp-jHWo

watch from 3:30 they come under "first contact" with an enemy force and then at 4:10 the team leader signals he wants to pull back and the team in two 3 man fire teams do a tactical pull back while providing covering fire to the other fireteam which is moving. And if you notice they go from movement as a 3 man fireteam... To movement as individual soldiers covering one another... Also in he video you see a CQB style exercise and IRL the individual soldiers are panning their focus around while they are moving in a CQB style environment... This is so that no enemy "sneeks" up on them and they have all sectors covered. The AI in the game do not do this, they fixate their focus at a point rather than keeping their heads on a swivel like this...

The suppressive fire gripe that I have with the game is that it seems that suppressive fire only is laid down when an enemy unit that was once visibly has either moved out of LOS or into cover. and essentially suppressive fire command just tells your team to fire at the area where the bad guy was last seen.

Suppressive fire technique known as talking guns: Essentially the alternation of weapons fire from 1 AR soldier to another, providing continuous firepower downrange...

why M249 SAW is not ideal for CQB environment:

The AI in the game doesn't matter if in vehicles or on foot... They do not provide TRUE suppressive fire... Where the enemy should be crapping their pants and dare not poke their heads up. IE: you better be in cover or you're dead. The shear amount of firepower coming down on you is overwhelming and demoralizing...

[Psycho78 10]

Some effective supressive fire would be great. I guess the soldiers don't have any sort of morale variable, that combined with the possibility of surrender would be very interesting.

[JuggernautOfWar 1]

Yes Psycho that would be a very nice feature. However I think we should stick to the actual problem itself, rather than letting the thread turn into an "AI suggestion thread". I want to make it clear to the developers this is not a mere suggestion; but rather a serious flaw in a central game mechanic which must be resolved.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Some effective supressive fire would be great. I guess the soldiers don't have any sort of morale variable, that combined with the possibility of surrender would be very interesting.

Well, they obviously have a morale variable since OFP, and there is already a surrendering module.

[old_painless 182]

Yes Psycho that would be a very nice feature. However I think we should stick to the actual problem itself, rather than letting the thread turn into an "AI suggestion thread". I want to make it clear to the developers this is not a mere suggestion; but rather a serious flaw in a central game mechanic which must be resolved.

There seem to be a bit more attention from BIS towards debates on issues in the Troubleshooting forum. I hate this problem too. Donno if we can move this thread?

-OP

[pvt. phillips 10]

All we need is the ability to call clear like the other squad mates do.

In my opinion this is all we need to fix this problem. And If BI can i notice my squad mates say where are you? And you cant say im at 100934 like the ai team leaders can. Then again I can just go to my map and click move to that team leader(my position).

Edited September 13, 2010 by Pvt. Phillips

[bigshot 64]

In my opinion this is all we need to fix this problem. And If BI can i notice my squad mates say where are you? And you cant say im at 100934 like the ai team leaders can. Then again I can just go to my map and click move to that team leader(my position).

actually, you dont have to bother answering them when they ask where you are because they ALWAYS know where you are and will come to you as long as you have requested a return to formation. Don't understand why this annoying feature still remains in the game really (where the AI constantly asks you where you are, even though they really know). Wish they would just take that out already as it's pointless with no real use or need.

Yea, a new ability for the group leader and/or player to call CLEAR is "clearly" needed now.

Edited September 13, 2010 by BigShot

[AnimalMother92 10]

Yea, a new ability for the group leader and/or player to call CLEAR is "clearly" needed now.

Agreed, it's needed for times when you absolutely have to move.

[rübe 127]

but please guys, I want to be able to issue that command as a simple grunt too (and not only as leader). And second, we also need to be able to issue that command by means of scripting.

Pretty please? :)

[old_painless 182]

Always wondered what GL4s "Force Move" feature was about - perhaps this can be solved in a mod?

[[frl]myke 14]

actually, you dont have to bother answering them when they ask where you are because they ALWAYS know where you are and will come to you as long as you have requested a return to formation. Don't understand why this annoying feature still remains in the game really (where the AI constantly asks you where you are, even though they really know). Wish they would just take that out already as it's pointless with no real use or need.

I wouldn't say it is of no real use. I see it as help to keep track of my men. While with a 2-3 man group it is easy to keep track of each groupmember, on larger groups it becomes much harder. Or dou you count them time by time to see if everyone is here?

So i see it as player info that one of the group member probably has a problem to catch up. What you do with this info is up to you and probably depending on your actual situation and mission. Screw him or try to solve the problem.

[tpw 2315]

but please guys, I want to be able to issue that command as a simple grunt too (and not only as leader). And second, we also need to be able to issue that command by means of scripting.

Pretty please? :)

I think I might be able to help you:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=107520

[Psycho78 10]

I think I might be able to help you:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=107520

Interesting. That's only good if you can edit the mission though, correct?

[JuggernautOfWar 1]

Interesting. That's only good if you can edit the mission though, correct?

I believe so. We need something in the standard GUI for on-the-fly orders in any mission. Great workaround though. :p

[tpw 2315]

I believe so. We need something in the standard GUI for on-the-fly orders in any mission. Great workaround though. :p

Thanks!

[dmarkwick 261]

Interesting. That's only good if you can edit the mission though, correct?

You could make yourself a tiny addon that adds that action, and keep the Clear.sqf in your ArmA2 Other Profiles\YourName\Scripts folder, and it'll work in any mission :)

[Zipper5 74]

Wow, I would never have thought that near-killing the AI and then healing them in a split second gets rid of the forced Danger mode, lol. Who even thought that up? I would never have put them together. :p

The mysteries of RealVirtuality...

[Psycho78 10]

You could make yourself a tiny addon that adds that action, and keep the Clear.sqf in your ArmA2 Other Profiles\YourName\Scripts folder, and it'll work in any mission :)

How would you do that specifically? That wouldn't add the action to the command menus would it?

Seems like adding the command to the normal menus would be a great opportunity for a mod-maker, hint hint.

[dmarkwick 261]

How would you do that specifically? That wouldn't add the action to the command menus would it?

Seems like adding the command to the normal menus would be a great opportunity for a mod-maker, hint hint.

Well I have a working version, using the action menu unfortunately right now. But in any case, it's a working version, in that the action is applied to the player automatically. I'm just not seeing the intended effect, the AI still seem to remain in danger mode, if that little red crosshair icon is the indicator.

Edited September 15, 2010 by DMarkwick

[Psycho78 10]

So maybe the AI stating "Clear!" does not cause the clear condition, it's an effect of them already deciding it's clear. :(

[bigshot 64]

Well I have a working version, using the action menu unfortunately right now. But in any case, it's a working version, in that the action is applied to the player automatically. I'm just not seeing the intended effect, the AI still seem to remain in danger mode, if that little red crosshair icon is the indicator.

well, when you say they are still in danger mode i know you mean the danger icon is still there, BUT, do they now respond to your commands anyway (in other words they may actually be out of danger mode even though the visual icon and audible "all clear!" cues arent there)?