ARMA 2: OA beta build 73116

[Kovah85 10]

I agree. Please vote #11694 if you want, so the issue may get the proper BI attention.

Ah very nice. Was trying to find out if other people noticed the same thing but was searching for the wrong terms. Also, voted.

[langgis08 10]

In ArmA2 the cursor would move just like your crosshair, but now it is not the case.

yes, Kovah, that's very annoying ... quick commands in combat situations are painful and deadly (almost impossible, indeed) with this. I have aiming dead zone maxed out because this is a great feature I wanna keep AND would like to have a flexible command-cursor aswell - this is a cirumstance I don't get in mind, what's against making this more comfortable, it's essential, I think :rolleyes:.

edit

I agree. Please vote #11694 if you want, so the issue may get the proper BI attention.

thx for info

voted +1

Edited September 3, 2010 by langgis08

[vasmkd 12]

Thanks Dwarden for the that fix, that was quick

someone at BIS is working too hard ;)

To ppl replying about manual fire, sorry i didn't explain it correctly and to stop any confusion, since OA u cannot lock ur missles onto a target, u can track it "tab" but the missle wont follow the target (fires straight like FFAR) if manual fire is selected and ur a single person in a chopper or fix wing aircraft with manual fire option.

If u have a gunner present it works fine.

Pre OA (arma 2 and OFP) u could do this with single person in plane/chopper. Maybe its a new feature or a bug. I dunno but would like to know. Its in CIT here if u want to vote http://dev-heaven.net/issues/12299

I just tried to see if it works incase it changed in the beta. This is how i accidently found the gunner crash problem.

Edited September 3, 2010 by vasmkd

[eJay 1]

Any news about possible ULB module fix in next build?

BTW. Nice beta, especially AI in tanks looks a lot wiser!

[seelix 10]

you guys are some hardcore fucks.

thanks for the intense continued work.

:pc:

[Scrub 0]

Dang, if the nations of the world had your work/corporate ethic, the global economic issue would become irrelevant! :)

Great Job on this!

[Big Dawg KS 6]

[73019] Improved: Tracers visible in all directions.

Now if only you can get around to implementingfixing this:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/12481

We'd be able to have some nice tracer effects.. :cool:

[metalcraze 290]

When will you fix the goddamn cursor finally?

Is it too much to ask to make it normal again like it was in AA2?

[AnimalMother92 10]

I love the tracers effects now, much better. Keep churning out the betas please and thank you :D

3 in particular that need some love

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/11588

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/13041

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/13245

Edited September 4, 2010 by AnimalMother92

[rksl-rock 1301]

[73030] Fixed: Airplanes HUDs projected into infinity.

Its a Horrible effect. Especially on custom addons. Anyone using a mixed (part model, part hud command) HUD ,eg the RKSL Typhoon, can no longer use the HUD to aim accurately. It renders the HUD utterly pointless in my opinion. Not to mention if you are using the Class MFD to populate other displays too.

Please either remove it of provide an option to switch between modes. Real world HUDs simply do not behave like this.

Edited September 4, 2010 by RKSL-Rock

[b00tsy 28]

I have a little request to BI. Can you please tweak the install program so that you actually get prompted when the install is finished?

Now when I install a beta the install display mentions that the install is finished after 10 seconds while it is by long not finished. So after 30 minutes I just manually stop the install hoping that it is completed. If I end it to soon I have to reinstall it all over again.

Thanks :)

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Real world HUDs simply do not behave like this.

How do they behave? Don't get me wrong, I'm not even sure what this fix does yet (I'm really not that much into flying). If I read it correctly, it's a projected hud/aim similarly to what red dot sights would do (but don't in Arma). Means aim stays on target if you shift around in the cockpit.

I'm not sure why this fix is needed, as we don't have the option to shift around much, and all you have to do is let go of freelook to center your view. Maybe it was that problem with pilots view having a slight shift making their nonprojected aim non functional? I'm not sure.

How is a HUD based sight supposed to work if it's not projected? Ready to learn. :p

[rksl-rock 1301]

How do they behave? Don't get me wrong, I'm not even sure what this fix does yet (I'm really not that much into flying). If I read it correctly, it's a projected hud/aim similarly to what red dot sights would do (but don't in Arma). Means aim stays on target if you shift around in the cockpit.

Id suggest trying it first before commenting. It will make far more sense.

If you were to try it you'd see that it doesn't actually work like a proper projected aimpoint/red dot sight. Its reversed and grossly exaggerated. But even then its just not realistic

But this "fix" essentially ruins the entire experience of flying the aircraft. It behaves in the reverse of logical behaviour for a proper HUD or weapons sight.

IE if you pull a full loop the hud slides down. Do a negative G dive and it slides up. In reality from a pilots point of view the entire canopy and displays would appear to move the other way due to the G forcing you into or out of your seat. But even then its not correct, due to the way and the degree of translation in the X and Y axis. Its actually comical.

I'm not sure why this fix is needed, as we don't have the option to shift around much, and all you have to do is let go of freelook to center your view. Maybe it was that problem with pilots view having a slight shift making their nonprojected aim non functional? I'm not sure.

How is a HUD based sight supposed to work if it's not projected? Ready to learn. :p

Real world HUDs simply do not move about to this degree. They are actually designed so they do not move. The person's view point may change in relation to the cockpit but the direction of the aim point would not move with the persons eye line in the way this patch makes it move.

Fixed HUDs ie not Helmet mounted displays remain aligned to the longitudinal axis of the aircraft or (weapon turret) they are mounted on. They do not move around with the users viewpoint as these do. HUDs are there to provide accurate targeting information and alignment for the guns and weapons so by their very nature they have to be static. While the only exception to that is the aim point which may sometimes move to allow a more accurate target point while under heavy manoeuvring. But only on some wepaons that do not have a fixed aimpoint. Weapons like rockets and guns dont move relative to the axis of the aircraft.

This latest patch moves the displays around so much that it appears the HUD projector is actually moving around on its own.

For example. These two shots were taken flying straight and level, looking ~10-20 degrees right.

Typhoon without Beta patch

Typhoon with Beta patch

See the difference in the Right hand MFD. (these MFDs are done using the same class MFD command as the HUD) Its the most obvious offset. In reality these wouldn't move. Nor would the actual HUD itself. This effect is especially obvious with Track IR users.

Does that make sense to you?

EDIT: Going back and trying it without the patch also highlights this issue with the exisitng targeting ques moving around when they shouldnt. Try using rockets, or a gun on the A10. The aim point is not only offset but moves around.

Edited September 4, 2010 by RKSL-Rock
Spelling and an extra comment.

[7 0]

@Rock

How was this even a bug? Why did they make it like this?

[rksl-rock 1301]

@Rock

How was this even a bug? Why did they make it like this?

Mate i would love to know why.:cool:

[Beagle 684]

Mate i would love to know why.:cool:

Mods have to adopt to the changes in the official releases, official releases dont have to adopt to mods. Play some flightsims with 6dof and you wil see the same effects as in OA...AND with the activated cameras shaking you have a induced change in viewpoint all the time while manouvering.

[PuFu 4600]

This is something that Myke also posted about on some other thread, HERE

Would be lovely to get a proper info about it from BI though

Mods have to adopt to the changes in the official releases, official releases dont have to adopt to mods. Play some flightsims with 6dof and you wil see the same effects as in OA...AND with the activated cameras shaking you have a induced change in viewpoint all the time while manouvering.

It is about releasing proper documentation about such a change, since it renders the current method of sorting MFDs null.

Myke post explains it very well. And while i do agree with the fact that BI can do some changes without taking into account existing addons, i don't belive those are suppose to render all previous work null(including their own, from vanilla version), and have no backward compatibility. And proper documentation about an alternative solution should also be posted

Edited September 4, 2010 by PuFu

[rksl-rock 1301]

Mods have to adopt to the changes in the official releases, official releases dont have to adopt to mods. Play some flightsims with 6dof and you wil see the same effects as in OA...AND with the activated cameras shaking you have a induced change in viewpoint all the time while manouvering.

Its exactly the same in the stock aircraft too. HUDs are now useless.

And i do play alot of Flgiht sims. And i have worked for companies that make HUDs for various applications and i promise you they do not work like this.

[[frl]myke 14]

This is something that Myke also posted about on some other thread, HERE

Would be lovely to get a proper info about it from BI though

It is about releasing proper documentation about such a change, since it renders the current method of sorting MFDs null.

Myke post explains it very well. And while i do agree with the fact that BI can do some changes without taking into account existing addons, i don't belive those are suppose to render all previous work null(including their own, from vanilla version), and have no backward compatibility. And proper documentation about an alternative solution should also be posted

Just to make it clear in this thread aswell: i'm well aware that it is way too early to expect the BIWIKI already updated. I would expect it not before the next final patch hit the shelves. So i'm not complaining that general fact.

But the past has shown that the BIWIKI wasn't updated, not for ArmA 2 and not for OA, leave alone BAF DLC. So based on what i should assume that this time it would be different?

[Beagle 684]

Its exactly the same in the stock aircraft too. HUDs are now useless.

And i do play alot of Flgiht sims. And i have worked for companies that make HUDs for various applications and i promise you they do not work like this.

I dotn see useless HUD in the stock aircraft, sorry i dotn see the point here, and I think its fulyl clear that we will never see fully realistic HUD representation in the real virtuality engine when even sims liek DCS fail here in regards to absolute replication.

BTW: I worked in the company that builds Leopard II Tanks, but I would lie if I would say I know all about it's systems and how it works.

[[frl]myke 14]

And while they already "fixed" the HUD movements, why didn't they fixed the issue with HUD text/numbers not being occluded when behind model objects? And yes, does affect default BIS aswell, like the A-10.

[rksl-rock 1301]

I dotn see useless HUD in the stock aircraft, sorry i dotn see the point here, and I think its fulyl clear that we will never see fully realistic HUD representation in the real virtuality engine when even sims liek DCS fail here in regards to absolute replication.

BTW: I worked in the company that builds Leopard II Tanks, but I would lie if I would say I know all about it's systems and how it works.

Well sorry but i think you are burying your head in the sand here. BIS wont fix anything unless we tell them what is wrong.

As for working in a company making HUD displays: I was a consulting developer for the human interface design team at BAe Dynamics in 1998. We actually provided software and display formatting for a lot of the Holographic displays now used on the Eurofighter, Rafale etc. I spent quite a lot of time working withthe simulators so I do have real first hand experience of HUDs.

---------- Post added at 13:59 ---------- Previous post was at 13:58 ----------

Myke;1740740']And while they already "fixed" the HUD movements' date=' why didn't they fixed the issue with HUD text/numbers not being occluded when behind model objects? And yes, does affect default BIS aswell, like the A-10.[/quote']

But the "fix" moves them in the wrong directions ;)

[[frl]myke 14]

But the "fix" moves them in the wrong directions ;)

Thats why i used quotes, ya know? :D

[PuFu 4600]

I dotn see useless HUD in the stock aircraft, sorry i dotn see the point here

o'rly?

____OA A10___________CO AV8____

Edited September 4, 2010 by PuFu

[VariousArtist 19]

I have a little request to BI. Can you please tweak the install program so that you actually get prompted when the install is finished?

Now when I install a beta the install display mentions that the install is finished after 10 seconds while it is by long not finished. So after 30 minutes I just manually stop the install hoping that it is completed. If I end it to soon I have to reinstall it all over again.

Thanks :)

Erm, the install displays its finished when its finished. Cos its only 10mb+ it hardly needs much longer than 10 secs anyway... No idea what your problem might be...