CM Operation Flashpoint 3 announced | "Oops, they're doing it again..."

[EricM 0]

@Fuzzy : MP in arma is really Dr Jekyll and Mr Hide... It depends on the day, the server, the mission...

On a small server with the right guys (or friends) + a small set of objectives = awsome tactical gaming !

On a big public server (probably playing domination or warfare) = there's no way to make everyone play together, and the mission does not really forces you to... though you can get some brilliant moments and it's easy to get in and get out for casual play. Many people aren't native english speakers too, and are shy to use TS or VOIP to coordinate too.

The only way to play bigger AND organized missions is to get into a clan, but then they require you to come and train 3 times a week or you get kicked... Not something I can really stick to with a busy job, Wife and kid.

[Pathy 0]

The only way to play bigger AND organized missions is to get into a clan, but then they require you to come and train 3 times a week or you get kicked... Not something I can really stick to with a busy job, Wife and kid.

Not sure how big you're talking, but not all squads operate like that mate - for us, for example, it's a one-off 3 hour training session when you first join, then after that, as a minimum, it's just turn up to 1 mission a month. I don't want to sound like i'm turning this thread into an advertisement, but on the other hand, it's very definitely a misrepresentation to imply that to join an organized gaming squad in ArmA you've got to give up acres of time. I know some squads that are rather more 'hardcore', and others even more casual.

Depends very much on the squad. Some are demanding, some aren't. Either way, it's the best way to play ArmA2, something that with a 4 player cap, RR will never touch.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Pathy

[EricM 0]

I know some squads that are rather more 'hardcore', and others even more casual.

You're probably right. But when I looked at the recruitment page of a few french clans, I just gave up after reading the addons requirements, ranking systems, time schedules etc...

I don't want to become a professional gamer or pretend I'm a real soldier, I just want to enjoy a slightly more cooperative game from time to time, which is indeed hard to get on a 32 or 64 public warfare server.

Obviously, that's a pb Red River will not have... with 4 people in a corridor, it's hard to lose track...

Not sure how big you're talking,

Anything bigger than 5 people per side starts to become "free for all" on public servers with only strangers. Above that, it's really hard to get people to interact even if you initiate the communication. In my experience at least. It's a little bit easier when there's a small core of people that know each others to create momentum, but entropy is always around the corner.

Edited August 30, 2010 by EricM

[4 IN 1 0]

Back in the OFP:R days MP mission based COOP is a good fun, you hop in, get to know the guy or chating while wait for the mission to finish then start another mission and start work with the peoples to finish the mission, it never when tired as every time the outcome of that mission is different, now through DOM/EVO/WARFARE/that kind of thing basicly ruin MP fun for me, no one play mission based COOP on public and joining a squad is something you cant do when life getting into the way.

[ben_s 11]

I dare anyone from the CM forums to buy Arma2 and download IkaR's F14 and fire up the 'Danger Zone' song and have the time of your life in Air combat chasing Su-34's or what not :)

TBH, Aerial battles suck in ArmA, I would play lock on if i wanted modern air battles (which I do ;))

@everyone, I do find that mutliplayer is quite bad (my opinion) but COOP kicks ass. I always say that. A group of mates playing together is just awsome. IF only the AI was better.. :(

Edited August 30, 2010 by Ben_S

[b0b 10]

TBH, Aerial battles suck in ArmA, I would play lock on if i wanted modern air battles (which I do ;))

@everyone, I do find that mutliplayer is quite bad (my opinion) but COOP kicks ass. I always say that. A group of mates playing together is just awsome. IF only the AI was better.. :(

lulzwut?!

I gather youve never played on expert with insane AI settings? 20 minutes in youll be begging for the AI to be turned down a few notches heheh.

[ricbar89 0]

lulzwut?!

I gather youve never played on expert with insane AI settings? 20 minutes in youll be begging for the AI to be turned down a few notches heheh.

Hard =/= good.

Air battles have always been one of the weaker parts of OFP/ARMA.

Like Ben_S said, if you want air battles play Lock On or Falcon 4, games that actually simulate aircraft beyond basic avionics and a simple lock on system.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Hard =/= good.

Air battles have always been one of the weaker parts of OFP/ARMA.

Like Ben_S said, if you want air battles play Lock On or Falcon 4, games that actually simulate aircraft beyond basic avionics and a simple lock on system.

However, the way airplanes are simulated in ArmA2 is more than enough for this game.

[ricbar89 0]

However, the way airplanes are simulated in ArmA2 is more than enough for this game.

I'd agree with that, they're capable of doing whats needed, clearing the skys of other aircraft and droppind bombs on people on the ground with or without the help of other people on the ground. :)

[ben_s 11]

Yeah, they're enough. But I would prefer to play lock on or falcon to play with planes as it were.

And yes, good accuracy AI doesn't mean its clever. Not that the AI is bad, its just not as good as other games ive seen.

[Jelliz 10]

And yes, good accuracy AI doesn't mean its clever.

This can actually be tweaked by the mission makers, but it is often overseen. unit setskill ["Aimingaccuracy",0.15] makes the bullets go all over the place, unit setskill ["Aimingaccuracy",1] makes them hit on (almost) every shot.

Not that the AI is bad, its just not as good as other games ive seen.

For such an open environment it simply "pwns" all games. Yet, there are games that gives you the "illusion" that they have good AI, but if you put 100 of those AI's on the map, the performance loss would be even greater than in Arma 2.

[ben_s 11]

Fair point there, but my point was, they're quite dumb at actually using tactics. I mean, overall they're great, its just a part that needs tweaked. (still on A2 not OA here btw)

The AI, whilst they can perform quite alot of tasks fine, they cannot follow orders and often end up getting killed or just standing there doing nothing in middle of firefight. Though, ive seen that on all OFP games, including DR. So its probably just the open world not being able to make them do anything.

Or its my Pentium4 choking up on the AI systems. All are applicable. :)

[Suchy_ 10]

You're probably right. But when I looked at the recruitment page of a few french clans, I just gave up after reading the addons requirements, ranking systems, time schedules etc...

I don't want to become a professional gamer or pretend I'm a real soldier, I just want to enjoy a slightly more cooperative game from time to time, which is indeed hard to get on a 32 or 64 public warfare server.

Obviously, that's a pb Red River will not have... with 4 people in a corridor, it's hard to lose track...

Anything bigger than 5 people per side starts to become "free for all" on public servers with only strangers. Above that, it's really hard to get people to interact even if you initiate the communication. In my experience at least. It's a little bit easier when there's a small core of people that know each others to create momentum, but entropy is always around the corner.

CiA server should suit you right then (http://ciahome.net). Cooperative teamplay without actually LARPing soldiers. No gazillion mods either, just ZeusAI.

The vids stutter a bit, because I recorded them with compression on the fly in high resolution, but you'll get the idea.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Suchy_

[jblackrupert 14]

Most games with "better" AI are corridor shooters where the levels were designed to give the illusion that the AI is smarter then it really is.

Example: F.E.AR

Many of the voices of the AI were fake. Calling for support, He's over there etc.. Put there to make you think they were actually doing those thing

but they were just nothing more then recordings played back at random.

F.E.A.R 2 AI didn't do so well in it's much more open areas.

Crysis with it's wide open areas used tricks to force you into nearly direct path. IE. The x-ray eyed Gunboat at the beach

it's purpose was to keep you on the road and not flank the AI using the beach.

Edited August 31, 2010 by jblackrupert

[nodunit 397]

Crysis with it's wide open areas used tricks to force you into nearly direct path. IE. The x-ray eyed Gunboat at the beach

it's purpose was to keep you on the road and no flank the AI using the beach.

That and to make sure you didn't see the ends of the level, truth be told great as crysis levels were open world they are not..or open world means something else these days.

For all it's faults I can't really make fun of RV's AI much, sure they have their stupid moments (hey so do we humans) but their fully dynamics..you look at the AI of other games they are useless unless you give them an area to operate and waypoints to travel along.

Crack open a crysis level and you'll see sphere with lines connected all around surrounded by a colored wall to keep the AI in..case and point, make a map, place an AI, walk up to him..punch him, shoot him..he'll say he's being attacked and so on but he won't do anything.

Want to set up tank AI? well it gets even more fun, same with helo's, if it moves it needs waypoint paths, don't even think of having a mass battle of ANYTHING if you aren't a wiz with the editor.

Although like you said..it could be your processor since low performance= dunce cap AI but at least they can swim, have you ever seen Crysis AI try to swim? It is hil-arious.

Edited August 31, 2010 by NodUnit

[4 IN 1 0]

That and to make sure you didn't see the ends of the level, truth be told great as crysis levels were open world they are not..or open world means something else these days.

For all it's faults I can't really make fun of RV's AI much, sure they have their stupid moments (hey so do we humans) but their fully dynamics..you look at the AI of other games they are useless unless you give them an area to operate and waypoints to travel along.

Crack open a crysis level and you'll see sphere with lines connected all around surrounded by a colored wall to keep the AI in..case and point, make a map, place an AI, walk up to him..punch him, shoot him..he'll say he's being attacked and so on but he won't do anything.

Want to set up tank AI? well it gets even more fun, same with helo's, if it moves it needs waypoint paths, don't even think of having a mass battle of ANYTHING if you aren't a wiz with the editor.

Although like you said..it could be your processor since low performance= dunce cap AI but at least they can swim, have you ever seen Crysis AI try to swim? It is hil-arious.

Mind you, RV's AI also need waypoint to function, it just that they dont need another trigger to force them into danger mode

[nodunit 397]

I understand waypoints to tell them specific area's and so on but they will advance on you, order eachother and work together to kill you and others.

What I meant in my example (and I should have included this) is literal move, even a single step, you can shoot them, punch them, throw them do anything you want even run them over or drop a car and they will stand there and take it.

[TenBensons 10]

Co-op with an organised group. There are plenty of them out there, just give the Squads and Fanpages forum a browse, find a group that sounds about right for you, and go and experience how ArmA ought to be played. Shameless and quick example from my own group:

[YOTUBE]cCKy6T7mrOA[/YOUTUBE]

Take that, 4 player max co-op!

This is what im talking about... Helmand with MTP/DPM units, have had a look at your clanpage and im impressed, a nice relaxed atmos. (it was the anal like entry req. of other clans putting me off..) so i shal sign up read your docs and hopefuly start my first tour.:yay:

Edited September 3, 2010 by Placebo

[max power 21]

Mind you, RV's AI also need waypoint to function, it just that they dont need another trigger to force them into danger mode

They don't need a way point to function. They need way points to tell them to travel and what to do when they get there. In other words, they don't just invent jobs for themselves for no reason.

[ben_s 11]

I agree that RV's AI is good and dynamic, but it can really be stupid, the ammount of times ive suddenly been bumped and teammates stand there getting picked off by incoming fire. Its just hilarous to watch. And how they seem to not be able to follow simple orders, But I suppose its all made up on how well they can spot, engage flank and eliminate the enemy without alot of stupid orders.

Too bad we can't get awsome AI in open world games.

[TenBensons 10]

Too bad we can't get awsome AI in open world games.

Yet...;)

[andersson 285]

Remember that peoples experience with A2 AI differs as they get smarter/dumber depending on how much CPU they get.

They have (are supposed to have) one core for themself for all the AI calculations, the faster that core is the smarter the AI and in high intensive situations a faster core makes for better responding AI.

[ben_s 11]

Yeah, I already stated that earlier.

[matchy7 10]

hope theres planes on this one

---------- Post added at 02:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:02 PM ----------

u also get a sa80 woohoo

[Zipper5 74]

What? :confused: