War with Iran.

[comradechaos 10]

I was pretty sure the Iranian Gov't would like the Taliban gone too.

[Big Mac 19]

Iran is not some terrorist organization, it is a proper country with a parliament and as much as dictatorship elements may exists, random nuclear bombings will not take place. Were not that stupid.

The IRGC has been labeled a terrorist organization with some hard proof to back up that label and it's officially sanctioned by the Iranian government. America is by no means innocent we trained some of central and south america's most infamous characters at the "School of the Americas" but in retrospect I do not believe we ever sent one our military units to intentionally bomb embassies or hijack planes. I just fear what the IRGC would do with a nuke and I don't believe it would be a random nuclear bombing, but pretty much turning Tel Aviv into the world's biggest glass bowl. Edited July 19, 2010 by Big Mac

[maturin 12]

The IRGC has been labeled a terrorist organization with some hard proof to back up that label and it's officially sanctioned by the Iranian government. America is by no means innocent we trained some of central and south america's most infamous characters at the "School of the Americas" but in retrospect I do not believe we ever sent one our military units to intentionally bomb embassies or hijack planes. I just fear what the IRGC would do with a nuke and I don't believe it would be a random nuclear bombing, but pretty much turning Tel Aviv into the world's biggest glass bowl.

The IRGC is a faction within the Islamic Republic of Iran. At the moment, they control the state, which is why a nuclear-armed Iran would be so unacceptable. But no one seems to think that they are an actual political organization rather than a league of super villains bent on the destruction of the human race. What do the rulers of the Islamic Republic of Iran want? To remain the rulers of a Republic that is Iranian and Islamic. It rather hard to have a republic, much less an Islamic one, when your country (or semi-inhabited landmass) is dotted with seventy glass bowls. That's how many nukes Israel is thought to have, IIRC.

As has been stated previously in the thread, the most Iran could hope to achieve with a nuclear weapon is to force Israel to disarm, a remote hope that would take the region to brink of nuclear war. Attempting such a coup would be incredibly reckless, and it would require fanatic resolve and an adept command of realpolitik, or at least an understanding of the limits of international involvement and the nerve to push the envelope. I think all that describes Iran's rulers better than grunting "Terrorists!"

The Iraq War made Iran a regional hegemon of sorts. They're feeling their oats. But all the confrontation with the West, the nuclear issue and the assertion of complete and equal sovereignty, serves to shore up support domestically as well. They've got millions of troublesome young people to deal with, and they're not very well-equipped for it, especially now that the hardliners are in control. If they can't get them all killed in uniform, they will have problems.

Edited July 19, 2010 by maturin

[Sky999 10]

The US will always support Israel unless they do something inexplicable.

Why is that I wonder? The US should start to care more about it's own people than that of another country.

[kyfohatl 10]

Taliban is a Sunni Islamist political movement. I doubt there will be much joining with the predominently Shia Islam Iranians (89% according to wikipedia). Al-Qaeda is thought to be primarily Sunni as well.

Good point, though cooperation with Al-Qaeda and Taliban may not necessarily be out of will, as I have herd several times in the news about how the Taliban force people to cooperate. I could be wrong though. But anything can happen in an unstable country, I'd say the least they could do if they were unable to gain large community support is to establish some bases around the region, making them harder to track down and defeat.

@ Big Mac: Look, I agree that the Iranian government at times may be very unresonable, but I can assure you that they are not going to be a threat. Growing up in Iran, I have become use to Iran's contineous stream of threat making, and NONE of them have been seroius or resulted in Iran actually preparing for war (as far as I rememeber, from 1990s onwards). So when the Iranian president says, "Israel must be wiped from the map", most Iranians take it for bulshit (cause we're used to it) whilst everyone else gets very worked up about it. What I'm trying to say is that don't worry, neither the Iraninan nor the Israeli government have the guts to actually go to war against each other so nothing is going to happen. All they've been doing for the past 20-25 years has been sitting in their chairs and mouthing!

[walker 0]

Hi all

In actual fact Al Qaeda is Wahhabi. Which many Muslims do not even accept as being Islamic.

Some facts:

Bin Laden was raised as an extremist Wahhabi but after being an alcoholic playboy and after being sent off to a succession of extreme Muslim schools to get "clean", wonder what they were cleaning his brain perhaps? He converted fully from being a Muslim to become a fully paid up brain cleaned member of the extremist Wahhabi sect. His family then sent him off to be an administrator, accountant and conduit for Saudi Arabian funds to Maktab al-Khidamat (MAK).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maktab_al-Khidamat

Did you know Al Qaeda is a Wahhabi organisation?

Did you know the Madrassas that taught the Taliban (Taliban means student) were all Wahhabi?

Did you know that the "Imams" all the Al Qaeda terrorists on 9/11 were under before their attack were Wahhabi?

Do you remember those US citizens from Alexandria Va. who were captured in Pakistan a few months back?

Did you know that Alexandria Va. is known as the Wahhabi corridor?

Remember Maj. Nidal M. Hasan's Imam was Anwar al-Aulaqi?

Remember the Time Square bomber was in contact with Anwar al-Aulaqi?

If you use goggle you find Anwar al-Aulaqi is clearly listed as being Wahhabi.

The Saudis fund: orphanages, Madrasahs and schools throughout the Middle East, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Palestine with one requirement; that the thought taught to the children are Wahhabi, and that Wahhabi "Imams" run the schools and teaching. Saudi Arabia then uses Wahhabism to infiltrate other nations. Saddam Hussein kept the Wahhabi sect out of Iraq for precisely that very reason. And the Monarch of Saudi Arabia's one requirement to America for letting them invade from there was that the Wahhabi sect was allowed to move in to Iraq. Soon after this Al Qaeda in Iraq began to recruit?

Did you know Wahhabi is NOT a even a valid religion? It is just a barely 200 year old sect and it is an anti Islamic sect at that. It attempts to replace the Koran with the teachings of Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab' notice it calls itself by its founders name, incidentally breaking rules set down in the Koran. Abd-al-Wahhab' was a snake oil sales man of the worst order, the Wahhabis at his instigation have actually made attempts to destroy the Muslim Prophet Mohammed's grave just like the Taliban destroyed the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan.

Wahhabi Al Qaeda has killed tens of thousands of Muslims and regularly blows up mosques including 3 in Pakistan in the last month alone killing hundreds of devout Muslims at prayer?

Wahhabism has about as much to do with Islam as the Ku Klux Klan has to do with Christianity.

http://www.nationalreview.com/interrogatory/interrogatory111802.asp

It always amazes me that this key factor of Wahhabism is hardly ever talked about in the media. Especially when it is the obvious fracture line to exploit in Al Qaeda's defeat. I guess it is down to the power of Oil money combined with various groupings wanting to create a monster to frighten others with.

As to any one who thinks Al Qaeda is pro Iran they need their brain damage looked at by a professional. Iran had even less to do with 9/11 than Iraq; and we all remember where that fantasy lead. And Al Qaeda regularly attacks Shiites and Shiite mosques. Though they attack Sunni mosques almost as often nowadays.

Kind Regards walker

Edited July 20, 2010 by walker

[froggyluv 2130]

Walker you are very correct about the Wahabis.

There is a Sufi Muslim fellowship in my hometown which is kind of an esoteric version of Islam and is very liberal. Jewish and Christians go there as well and they have a close relationship with the local orthadox jewish neighbors.

Anyways, some Wahabis came from Saudi Arabia to "check out" this strange mosque and basically ridiculed the sufi's and then offerered a few million dollars to "adopt" the mosque and their followers, start a new school there and bring in their version of the Quran and scriptures.

The sufi's politely refused.

Wahabis are a very dangerous miltant sect that the saudi's embraced for strong arm protection a long time ago and now they have to continue to feed the beast.

[comradechaos 10]

Walker you are very correct about the Wahabis.

There is a Sufi Muslim fellowship in my hometown which is kind of an esoteric version of Islam and is very liberal. Jewish and Christians go there as well and they have a close relationship with the local orthadox jewish neighbors.

Anyways, some Wahabis came from Saudi Arabia to "check out" this strange mosque and basically ridiculed the sufi's and then offerered a few million dollars to "adopt" the mosque and their followers, start a new school there and bring in their version of the Quran and scriptures.

The sufi's politely refused.

Wahabis are a very dangerous miltant sect that the saudi's embraced for strong arm protection a long time ago and now they have to continue to feed the beast.

This is also a supporting reason:

[eble 3]

Going back to the chance Israel might bomb the Iranian Nuclear facilities, I did some digging on this and found out some information about the sole Iraqi nuclear facility it had.

The site was then targeted by Coalition forces on January 17, 1991, halting the weapons program. Three days into the Desert Storm air raids, 56 F-16s attacked the facility followed by F-117 raids three days later. The facility, one of Iraq's most fortified targets, was not fully destroyed until another raid, when 48 F-16s targeted the facility 7 more times for over a month along with 17 F-111Fs weeks later. Only 19 days into the strikes did the US Defense Intelligence Agency find the site to be "severely degraded".[citation needed]

now think this is one site only, just one and look at the aircraft required and the time frame, it took 19 days to completely take out a non-working if heavly defended site.

I've not got exact details on the number of Iranian sites that being used for nuclear manufacturing/testing etc but I thought they had at least 4/5?

given that it took the US with almost total air control a minimum 19 days to destroy one facility, what chance would Israel have to take out multi targets and be confident that had destroyed them to the point dirty bombs couldn't be made and placed onto a missile system.

seems both the Iranians (ironic really) and Israelies both wanted to the destroy the reactor before fuel was added which would have made a strike against the facility almost impossible on a political level.

Although most agreed that Iraq was years away from being able to build a nuclear weapon, the Iranians and the Israelis felt any raid must occur well before nuclear fuel was loaded to prevent radioactive contamination. Further, Israel's Menachem Begin feared that Israel's next elected government would not act until a nuclear weapon was created[citation needed].

Iran attacked and damaged the site on September 30, 1980 with two F-4 Phantoms, shortly after the outbreak of the Iran-Iraq War. This was the first attack on a nuclear reactor and only the third on a nuclear facility in history of the world. It was also the first instance of a pre-emptive attack on a nuclear reactor to forestall the development of a nuclear weapon, though it did not achieve its objective as France repaired the reactor after the Iranian attack.[8][9][10][11][12]

Given that some of the Iranian facilities will be going online in what 2/3 months, the window for a pre-emptive strike is closing fast, no one will be willing to risk Nuclear fallout across the middle east, even the very supportive Saudi's might not want 1/2 of the country being unusable for the next 1000 years.

[jakerod 254]

Going back to the chance Israel might bomb the Iranian Nuclear facilities, I did some digging on this and found out some information about the sole Iraqi nuclear facility it had.

now think this is one site only, just one and look at the aircraft required and the time frame, it took 19 days to completely take out a non-working if heavly defended site.

I've not got exact details on the number of Iranian sites that being used for nuclear manufacturing/testing etc but I thought they had at least 4/5?

given that it took the US with almost total air control a minimum 19 days to destroy one facility, what chance would Israel have to take out multi targets and be confident that had destroyed them to the point dirty bombs couldn't be made and placed onto a missile system.

seems both the Iranians (ironic really) and Israelies both wanted to the destroy the reactor before fuel was added which would have made a strike against the facility almost impossible on a political level.

Given that some of the Iranian facilities will be going online in what 2/3 months, the window for a pre-emptive strike is closing fast, no one will be willing to risk Nuclear fallout across the middle east, even the very supportive Saudi's might not want 1/2 of the country being unusable for the next 1000 years.

Operation Opera (Wikipedia)

I thought you might be interested.

[echo1 0]

The IRGC has been labeled a terrorist organization with some hard proof to back up that label and it's officially sanctioned by the Iranian government. America is by no means innocent we trained some of central and south america's most infamous characters at the "School of the Americas" but in retrospect I do not believe we ever sent one our military units to intentionally bomb embassies or hijack planes. I just fear what the IRGC would do with a nuke and I don't believe it would be a random nuclear bombing, but pretty much turning Tel Aviv into the world's biggest glass bowl.

Could be worse, a country like Pakistan could have nuclear weapons.

Oh wait...

[Big Mac 19]

Could be worse, a country like Pakistan could have nuclear weapons.

Oh wait...

We were talking about Iran..

[echo1 0]

No shit Sherlock.

My point was that there is at least one nuclear-armed power in the world that is far more unstable, yet the US doesn't seem to care. Seems like they have their priorities wrong.

[sgt_hawkins 9]

No shit Sherlock.

My point was that there is at least one nuclear-armed power in the world that is far more unstable, yet the US doesn't seem to care. Seems like they have their priorities wrong.

We should just give them nukes..if they are anything like the enemy I fought in Iraq..they will just blow themselves up...

[Big Mac 19]

No shit Sherlock.

My point was that there is at least one nuclear-armed power in the world that is far more unstable, yet the US doesn't seem to care. Seems like they have their priorities wrong.

Actually it does care that's why it's trying to keep the Taliban from gaining control in Pakistan and trying to keep Iran who is pretty much controlled by the IRGC a group known for terrorist acts from developing a nuclear weapon...

We should just give them nukes..if they are anything like the enemy I fought in Iraq..they will just blow themselves up...

And few million innocent people along with them? Maybe a few thousand American troops as well? Edited July 21, 2010 by Big Mac

[eble 3]

Actually it does care that's why it's trying to keep the Taliban from gaining control in Pakistan and trying to keep Iran who is pretty much controlled by the IRGC a group known for terrorist acts from developing a nuclear weapon...

And few million innocent people along with them? Maybe a few thousand American troops as well?

The US doesn't give a crap about Pakistan, lets not forget the Taliban actually came from Pakistan in the first place.

The US is showing interest in Pakistan to keep the level of trouble down on the border.

Just read up on how the Soviets withdrew from Afghistan to see how the west will do it, it's exactly the same plan, except the soviets trained a much larger Afghan force.

[Big Mac 19]

The US doesn't give a crap about Pakistan, lets not forget the Taliban actually came from Pakistan in the first place.

The US is showing interest in Pakistan to keep the level of trouble down on the border.

Wrong, Wrong and Wrong. The US gives quite a big crap about Pakistan because of it's strategic location to ghanny. It's also gives a crap about them because they do have nukes and there for wants to keep a western friendly government in power.

The Taliban came from the southern part of Afghanistan and were supported by the the ISI.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Wrong, Wrong and Wrong. The US gives quite a big crap about Pakistan because of it's strategic location to ghanny. It's also gives a crap about them because they do have nukes and there for wants to keep a western friendly government in power.

The Taliban came from the southern part of Afghanistan and were supported by the the ISI.

You are correct, but a large number of their recruits and field commanders came from Pakistani madrassas. The Taliban was also supported by the US (for a short while)and Saudi Arabia. Of course, their activities in Kabul, Herat, and Mazar-e-sharif made it difficult for other nations to support them. Except Pakistan.

[Big Mac 19]

That's true. I was referring to their origins.

[sgt_hawkins 9]

Nuke them all and take their oil...its the American way....

[HyperU2 11]

Nuke them all and take their oil...its the American way....

Japan had oil?

[sgt_hawkins 9]

Japan had oil?

No they attacked Pearl Harbor...That was our way of saying....You hit me.....I burn your country in half...not to mention all the factories that we destroyed in Japan..really boosted American companies..because we had no competition..Gm.. Ford??? Our economy really took off after that... Maybe we should try it again..

[Big Mac 19]

How does dropping nukes on 3rd world countries bring up our economy? I find this outlandish theory...interesting...

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Nuke them all and take their oil...its the American way....

nevermind

[Baff1 0]

Japan had oil?

Yes, Japan's expansion into the West Pacific was primarily to secure oil fields to fuel it's war in China.

Previously it had bought it's oil from America, but Roosevelt had placed them under embargo in an attempt to cripple their navy.

---------- Post added at 07:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:48 PM ----------

How does dropping nukes on 3rd world countries bring up our economy? I find this outlandish theory...interesting...

It takes out your rival producers.

Anything you destroy must be rebuilt.

Which increases world demand for goods which you can produce.

Potentially, it unlocks the markets of the country you attack also.

Edited July 22, 2010 by Baff1