War with Iran.

[Baff1 0]

The Chinese are a massive threat to the U.S. militarily they can burn every single city in the country to dust, and their submarines can sink American fleets with impunity.

But at what price? Since America is able to reciprocate in kind.

[Big Mac 19]

The Chinese are a massive threat to the U.S. militarily they can burn every single city in the country to dust, and their submarines can sink American fleets with impunity.

But at what price? Since America is able to reciprocate in kind.

It doesn't do ya any good to burn down your own money tree.

[pviera11 10]

I'm implying a hemisphere war, or at least one that covers several seas.

All others - Russia and the like, those are cutting back on mil hardware and personnel, but not China, or India, or Taiwan for that matter (navy).

Think of this year as 1929, or 1930-31. America needs to get 'attacked' in order for the economy to get going, or there would be a 305+ million pissed civilians.

You can't short all of the markets all of the time, and nobody is investing in this volatile bullshit market. :icon_eek:

---------- Post added at 07:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:00 AM ----------

Israel pilots are known to play games involving concrete structures & JDAM ammunitions and sometimes with themselves (unconfirmed).

Even if we did have a war, it wouldn't help the economy out any. Why? Because the U.S. government makes all of its own ammunition, tanks, etc. It isn't handed out to the private sector anymore.

[Baff1 0]

If they bombed all the Chinese factories to the ground it would do wonders for their economy.

Ammunition and tanks isn't all they've got on sale.

[pviera11 10]

I don't have anything against chinese factories, if we gave those jobs to Americans, they would have unions in those factories, and would be wanting 80 dollars an hour. That is the only reason why an I-phone is still at 300 and not 2,000 dollars.

[Big Mac 19]

I don't have anything against chinese factories, if we gave those jobs to Americans, they would have unions in those factories, and would be wanting 80 dollars an hour. That is the only reason why an I-phone is still at 300 and not 2,000 dollars.

I have problem with American companies giving jobs to foreigners so they can get even more rich while the average honest hard working joe is left without a job. Also you really lump all the unions is a very bad light. Very few unions do what you claim they do now. A lot of them did that when the mob controlled them and used unions to blackmail companies, it had very little to do with greedy workers and more to do with criminals using legit organizations as a means of holding big companies over a barrel. Things are totally different now. BTW the iPhone is a POS. Edited August 18, 2010 by Big Mac

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Even if we did have a war, it wouldn't help the economy out any. Why? Because the U.S. government makes all of its own ammunition, tanks, etc. It isn't handed out to the private sector anymore.

And that is another major topic you touched... Most of you will be working for the government by then, be it an industrial job, or a hamburger joint. Ask the USSR.

[pviera11 10]

I have problem with American companies giving jobs to foreigners so they can get even more rich while the average honest hard working joe is left without a job. Also you really lump all the unions is a very bad light. Very few unions do what you claim they do now. A lot of them did that when the mob controlled them and used unions to blackmail companies, it had very little to do with greedy workers and more to do with criminals using legit organizations as a means of holding big companies over a barrel. Things are totally different now. BTW the iPhone is a POS.

All i have to say is, your just another brainwashed American. You are telling me your going to pay 500-1,000 dollars for an I-pod? Or 1,000-5,000for an Xbox-360? Also, why do you have a problem with the rich? Is it because you aren't rich your self? Is it because you cant get out of your dead end job, or your low income job? But with your system I'm sure we would spread all the wealth around real well. No poor, or rich people, just all middle class right? Oh expect for the politicians they would all be rich.

---------- Post added at 08:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:37 PM ----------

And that is another major topic you touched... Most of you will be working for the government by then, be it an industrial job, or a hamburger joint. Ask the USSR.

All hail mother Russia! errr.....or mother USA. Anyways, you cant touch one topic now, without starting a chain reaction of other topics. If war did start, it is because there is billions of dollars, that everyone here in the USA, and around the world that people are going to make.(through weapons contracts, armour contracts, security companies, etc.) Now days wars only start when money is to be made(not saying that i want to stop all wars from ever happening, because wars are sometimes necessary) but through all the brainwashing the media does, etc. They are trying to make the country seem like the worst country in the world, and many times when they tell a story about Iran, and you go research it, it is all a lie. Also I'm not going to go into the start of the history of Iran of helping the Sha into power.

[-Snafu- 77]

The Chinese are a massive threat to the U.S. militarily they can burn every single city in the country to dust, and their submarines can sink American fleets with impunity.

But at what price? Since America is able to reciprocate in kind.

Have you ever heard of logistics?

The Chinese are not a threat to the US at the moment. They are in the middle of heavy development of their military industry and armed forces. They are in no state to engage in a major shooting war with the US.

It doesn't matter if they posses a big army with lots of weapons as they do not have the ability to project that power across the globe nor keep it supplied. If China is going to fight a major conventional war it will be one near its borders. Even then supply will still be a massive issue. It's a logistic impossibility to put such a large force in combat. With modern gear armies will be struggling to maintain the necessary ammo, spares, fuel, food etc. Industry would never get geared up in time to replace losses.

They don't even posses an aircraft carrier. There are only three reasons to have an aircraft carrier and that is power projection, power projection and power projection. At the moment I highly doubt they are a threat to the USN and I highly doubt their submarines can, as you (apparently an expert on everything) put it, wipe out their fleets with impunity.

They might be a threat decades down the line but certainly not at the moment.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Snafu

[Big Mac 19]

All i have to say is, your just another brainwashed American. You are telling me your going to pay 500-1,000 dollars for an I-pod? Or 1,000-5,000for an Xbox-360? Also, why do you have a problem with the rich? Is it because you aren't rich your self? Is it because you cant get out of your dead end job, or your low income job? But with your system I'm sure we would spread all the wealth around real well. No poor, or rich people, just all middle class right? Oh expect for the politicians they would all be rich.

I'm brainwashed? Ha ok bud. No I wouldn't have to pay that much for iPhone or Xbox because I wouldn't buy either of them. If you bothered to look at the unemployment rates in the country you'd feel the same way. These companies don't move their factories over there so you can get products at lower prices they do it so they can avoid paying min. wage and pay these people next to nothing and make them work 12 hours a day without any basic benefits. How would you like if you were working at say the local Toyota plant and they decided to pay you 2 bucks an hour, do away with your 401k, take away you health insurance, and make you work 12 hours straight 7 days a week? You'd feel screwed right? Well that's what they're doing to these people.

I have no problem with someone being rich, my granddad was rich as hell, but even he agreed with me on this. It's all about greed and cheap labor while leaving an honest hard working American out of a job, because the fat cats up on the top floor want a bigger pay raise. For the longest time American companies were here, people had good jobs and products were sold at reasonable prices, and 'Made in the USA' actually meant something, it meant something was made rock solid and made to last, not made cheap. What you're suggesting is the same thing that has broken our economy, if people don't have good paying jobs then they have no money to spend, if they have no money to spend then businesses go under. It's not socialism it's common sense.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Big Mac

[pviera11 10]

I'm brainwashed? Ha ok bud. No I wouldn't have to pay that much for iPhone or Xbox because I wouldn't buy either of them. If you bothered to look at the unemployment rates in the country you'd feel the same way. These companies don't move their factories over there so you can get products at lower prices they do it so they can avoid paying min. wage and pay these people next to nothing and make them work 12 hours a day without any basic benefits. How would you like if you were working at say the local Toyota plant and they decided to pay you 2 bucks an hour, do away with your 401k, take away you health insurance, and make you work 12 hours straight 7 days a week? You'd feel screwed right? Well that's what they're doing to these people.

I have no problem with someone being rich, my granddad was rich as hell, but even he agreed with me on this. It's all about greed and cheap labor while leaving an honest hard working American out of a job, because the fat cats up on the top floor want a bigger pay raise. For the longest time American companies were here, people had good jobs and products were sold at reasonable prices, and 'Made in the USA' actually meant something, it meant something was made rock solid and made to last, not made cheap. What you're suggesting is the same thing that has broken our economy, if people don't have good paying jobs then they have no money to spend, if they have no money to spend then businesses go under. It's not socialism it's common sense.

Bigmac, your trying to speak about an issue that you have no clue about. True there is alot of unemployment in the country, but who's fault is that? I had to close down two businesses, because the government was taxing me nearly 70%, i couldn't hire employees, i had to lay over 20 off, and i couldn't even barley keep a profit going to pay my businesses expenses. Now, if i chose to move to China, only pay 10% of taxes over there. Are you going to tell me i am an evil man because i did that? Because i decided to get away from a government that was taxing me nearly 70%, and dint want me to get ahead in life? Also last i checked the unemployment was the fault of the government, they have been purposely destroying the government, and the economy, not to mention burning down America, and our constitution

[Big Mac 19]

Bigmac, your trying to speak about an issue that you have no clue about. True there is alot of unemployment in the country, but who's fault is that? I had to close down two businesses, because the government was taxing me nearly 70%, i couldn't hire employees, i had to lay over 20 off, and i couldn't even barley keep a profit going to pay my businesses expenses. Now, if i chose to move to China, only pay 10% of taxes over there. Are you going to tell me i am an evil man because i did that? Because i decided to get away from a government that was taxing me nearly 70%, and dint want me to get ahead in life? Also last i checked the unemployment was the fault of the government, they have been purposely destroying the government, and the economy, not to mention burning down America, and our constitution

I have no clue? Okay try telling that to others like me who are trying they're damnedest to find a decent paying job. I find that whole bullshit about the government taxing you 70% to be a load of bullshit.

There are two explanations as to why your businesses failed:

1. The product you were trying to sell wouldn't sell and so there for weren't able to turn a profit, but at least were able to break even since you went on to start another business.

2. You were just incompetent.

I'm not saying anyone is evil, just human. Moving your business to china wouldn't have done you any good because of those two points I've listed which are the leading causes for small business failures.

The government can be blamed for a lot of things, but not for imposing 70% taxes on small businesses. That would mean you wouldn't even be able to break even and you'd spend the next 20 years paying off the government. Don't blame the government for your mistakes. Unemployment is indirectly the fault of the government, but it has a lot more to do with businesses taking their jobs overseas and there by making thousands of people here jobless with little to no money and have to draw unemployment which further strains the government.

So lets sum it up for ya, there's no money flowing into businesses and into the pockets of the employees working in those businesses who then take their money and pay bills and go out and for dinner, rent movies, buy a car, go on vacation etc. all the while putting money into other businesses who continue the cycle and this is known as an ECONOMY. And it's because people have no jobs because there's very few jobs left in the US. Maybe now you've had a crash course in economics you'll understand why we're in such a bind. You should really watch CNBC sometimes, best show for economics.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Big Mac

[pviera11 10]

I have no clue? Okay try telling that to others like me who are trying they're damnedest to find a decent paying job. I find that whole bullshit about the government taxing you 70% to be a load of bullshit.

There are two explanations as to why your businesses failed:

1. The product you were trying to sell wouldn't sell and so there for weren't able to turn a profit, but at least were able to break even since you went on to start another business.

2. You were just incompetent.

I'm not saying anyone is evil, just human. Moving your business to china wouldn't have done you any good because of those two points I've listed which are the leading causes for small business failures.

The government can be blamed for a lot of things, but not for imposing 70% taxes on small businesses. That would mean you wouldn't even be able to break even and you'd spend the next 20 years paying off the government. Don't blame the government for your mistakes.

Unemployment is indirectly the fault of the government, but it has a lot more to do with businesses taking their jobs overseas and there by making thousands of people here jobless and little to no money so theres no money flowing into businesses.

Please don't talk about my leadership skills, come here to new york, and try to start a businesses, i have lead my businesses, to great success, yes i could of kept them running, but for what? Getting taxed 70%? Having to deal with lazy employees all day? Who do nothing but sit there, and text on their cellphones. I run a business now, that i run by my self, now i don't have to rely on lazy Americans, who don't want to do their job, but cry for a high pay. I dont have to hire people like you!

[Big Mac 19]

Please don't talk about my leadership skills, come here to new york, and try to start a businesses, i have lead my businesses, to great success, yes i could of kept them running, but for what? Getting taxed 70%? Having to deal with lazy employees all day? Who do nothing but sit there, and text on their cellphones. I run a business now, that i run by my self, now i don't have to rely on lazy Americans, who don't want to do their job, but cry for a high pay. I dont have to hire people like you!

HAHAHA Bud I worked 9 hours a day, 6 days a week making 25 bucks an hour and that's not counting overtime. I was doing a job most people can't do (Pipe welding) and I was laid off because of manpower cuts and even though I worked there for 4 years I was the low man on the totem pole. I'd happily go back to it if I could find a steady job doing it.

You're a joke talking about getting taxed out your ass and blaming the government for your failure as a businessman. It's people that blame the government for their problems that are the lazy Americans. I know many people who are not lazy and want to work. How about you go back to running your business in the ground, maybe this time you'll realize it's you that's the problem, not the government. If you can't handle dealing with people who are lazy then maybe you shouldn't be running a business. I've fired people before and didn't think twice about it.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Big Mac

[pviera11 10]

HAHAHA Bud I worked 9 hours a day, 6 days a week making 25 bucks an hour and that's not counting overtime. I was doing a job most people can't do (Pipe welding) and I was laid off because of manpower cuts and even though I worked there for 4 years I was the low man on the totem pole. I'd happily go back to it if I could find a steady job doing it.

You're a joke talking about getting taxed out your ass and blaming the government for your failure as a businessman. It's people that blame the government for their problems that are the lazy Americans. I know many people who are not lazy and want to work. How about you go back to running your business in the ground, maybe this time you'll realize it's you that's the problem, not the government. If you can't handle dealing with people who are lazy then maybe you shouldn't be running a business. I've fired people before and didn't think twice about it.

Just remember in the end, poor people don't give jobs, only rich people. As soon as a boss who owns his business, hears you talk that kind of B.S., you wont have that job, or you wont even be hired if people know you talk that way. So i will stick to my wealth, while you are collecting unemployment checks =)

I almost forgot you probally belong to a union, or used to. That is why you are so brainwashed. Your not even worth commenting on.

Edited August 19, 2010 by pviera11

[Big Mac 19]

Just remember in the end, poor people don't give jobs, only rich people. As soon as a boss who owns his business, hears you talk that kind of B.S., you wont have that job, or you wont even be hired if people know you talk that way. So i will stick to my wealth, while you are collecting unemployment checks =)

I almost forgot you probally belong to a union, or used to. That is why you are so brainwashed. Your not even worth commenting on.

Dude you're hilarious in your ignorance. Go back to pretending to run a business. Edited August 19, 2010 by Big Mac

[deltaGhost 10]

Just remember in the end, poor people don't give jobs, only rich people. As soon as a boss who owns his business, hears you talk that kind of B.S., you wont have that job, or you wont even be hired if people know you talk that way. So i will stick to my wealth, while you are collecting unemployment checks =)

I almost forgot you probally belong to a union, or used to. That is why you are so brainwashed. Your not even worth commenting on.

that has nothign to see with the war , go back tothe office civilian

[mosh 0]

Just remember in the end, poor people don't give jobs, only rich people. As soon as a boss who owns his business, hears you talk that kind of B.S., you wont have that job, or you wont even be hired if people know you talk that way. So i will stick to my wealth, while you are collecting unemployment checks =)

I almost forgot you probally belong to a union, or used to. That is why you are so brainwashed. Your not even worth commenting on.

You're so far off topic it isn't even funny. Please take your nonsense somewhere else so the rest of us don't have to read this crap.

[Akira 0]

Just remember in the end, poor people don't give jobs, only rich people. As soon as a boss who owns his business, hears you talk that kind of B.S., you wont have that job, or you wont even be hired if people know you talk that way. So i will stick to my wealth, while you are collecting unemployment checks =)

I almost forgot you probally belong to a union, or used to. That is why you are so brainwashed. Your not even worth commenting on.

You sound (and write) like someone who lives on their parents' dime.

[pviera11 10]

For one, you don't know how i sound, sure you know how i write. But i think i hit a nice spot on you about the unions. I don't live off of anyone, i never held open my hand, and begged for a paycheck unlike some other people. But im going to stop going off topic with you people again, it goes nowhere.

Edited August 19, 2010 by pviera11

[HotShot 0]

To bring this back from the personal bitching and towards a constructive topic:

4 Pipelines blown up in Iran in 3 weeks

My knowledge of this topic is scarce and not something I play too much attention to, but I looked where they took place and all were *close* to the Iraq border. This is merely a conspiracy theory, but its not unforeseeable that the U.S. etc would want to hamper Iran's gas flow/profits, although it seems to be on a small scale.

[Big Mac 19]

For one, you don't know how i sound, sure you know how i write. But i think i hit a nice spot on you about the unions. I don't live off of anyone, i never held open my hand, and begged for a paycheck unlike some other people. But im going to stop going off topic with you people again, it goes nowhere.

Sure you have it's called welfare..

[pviera11 10]

To bring this back from the personal bitching and towards a constructive topic:

4 Pipelines blown up in Iran in 3 weeks

My knowledge of this topic is scarce and not something I play too much attention to, but I looked where they took place and all were *close* to the Iraq border. This is merely a conspiracy theory, but its not unforeseeable that the U.S. etc would want to hamper Iran's gas flow/profits, although it seems to be on a small scale.

I wouldn't call it a conspiracy theory, a while ago Iran spotted U.S. recon units near the borders of Iran, and some even crossing over into Iran. The U.S says it doesn't know anything about that, but maybe if there was recon units, Iran would of already killed them, and that would of made the news.

[Baff1 0]

Have you ever heard of logistics?

The Chinese are not a threat to the US at the moment. They are in the middle of heavy development of their military industry and armed forces. They are in no state to engage in a major shooting war with the US.

What is the logistics chain of an ICBM exactly?

The Chinese have been in the position to start a shooting war with the US for decades. And anybody else for that matter.

The other thing they have is the most advanced submarine force in the world. Also the most advanced anti-shipping missiles. They can defend themselves. They can destroy the U.S. logisitcal train to all it's pacific colonies.

There was a Pentagon report out on China's military capabilites last week. Worth checking out I expect. I haven't read it myself, just the newspaper reports of it. It pretty much says the same thing they said last year and the year before as far as I can tell.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Baff1

[pviera11 10]

What is the logistics chain of an ICBM exactly?

The Chinese have been in the position to start a shooting war with the US for decades. And anybody else for that matter.

The other thing they have is the most advanced submarine force in the world. They can defend themselves. They can destroy the U.S. logisitcal train to all it's pacific colonies.

There was a Pentagon report out on China's military capabilites last week. Worth checking out I expect. I haven't read it myself, just the newspaper reports of it. It pretty much says the same thing they said last year and the year before as far as I can tell.

People view China as some kind of big threat, when they forget that they have the biggest trade with us, are they going to throw away all that money they make yearly, just to have a shooting war with the united states, and achieve what? They can happily sit there, collecting money from the U.S. and building up their military for the next 20-50 years.