A.C.E. Advanced Combat Environment - Public Beta *2*!

[Inkompetent 0]

I tested the RPG-7VR against the side armor of an Abrams and a T-72. The T-72 would take only one round to the side and went fubar skyhigh while the Abrams took 5 hits and sustained turret and mobility kill only. I repeated the test 3 times with consistent results... is the RL armor between the T-72 and M1A1 so different?

Very, very different. First and foremost when it comes to actually destroying the tank completely there are two VAST differences between the Abrams and the T-72, aside from the astronomical difference in armour thickness and technology. The Abrams stores its ammunition in a way that makes it unlikely to get hit or ignite on a hit of the tank, and spare/reserve ammunition is stowed in the back of the turrent behind fire-proof hatches in a compartment with upwards-directed blow out-hatches. If the reserve ammunition should explode the hatches are designed to open easily and let out the force of the explosion upwards to not damage the tank or crew.

The T-72 stores its ammunition under the floor in the crew compartment in a a rotary "dish" letting it have much more ammunition readily available than the Abrams, and within easy reach for the tank's auto-loader (The T-72 has a mechanical auto-loader and not a crewman loading like in the Abrams). The downside is that it is very badly protected from inside the tank, and should the ammunition explode it WILL destroy the entire the tank and blow it to smitherens, most likely with the iconic 'turret flies 30 meters into the air and lands 50 meters away'.

Thus a 'destroyed' Abrams is probably looking quite whole, but is disabled/crippled, while a 'destroyed' T-72 might just as well be burning, blown out scrap metal.

Also, I noticed a HUGE difference in the power of the AT-4 and the SMAW HEAA. The SMAW HEAA would kill a T-72 with one shot to the front while the AT-4 would do almost nothing to the front armor of a T-72... is that how it is in RL too?

Yes. Using an AT-4 against the front armour of even a T-62 can be considered waste of tax-payers' money and your own life. To use it against a T-72 is even more pointless. IRL, even when shooting at the side of a T-72 (without ERA protection on it) one isn't likely to do any considerable damage with an AT-4 (you better volley-fire with an entire infantry squad with AT-4s). AT-4s work well against APCs, IFVs and AFVs. Against MBTs you better call in air support or armour of your own, unless you can get a side-shot with a RPG-29, RPG-7V with PG7VR rocket, SMAW with HEAA or carry around a Javelin.

[jasonnoguchi 11]

@INKO, I LOVE THIS NEW FEATURE SO MUCH!!!!! This level of realism has been SORELY missing in the default game making RPGs and AT-4s way too powerful. :)

[Inkompetent 0]

Oh, and an additional correction about the AT-4. The AT-4 used in ArmA and ACE is the standard HEDP version which is a better all-round weapon since it can be used against both armour and entrenched enemies (i.e. using it against prepared firing positions and buildings), while the HP (High Penetration) version is only effective against armour.

IRL the HEDP version is the most common one used in for example Iraq, but it seems logical considering what they have spent most of the time there fighting. I do not know how the distribution of HEDP vs HP (or the overall availability of HP) was during the start of the war when enemy armour was to be expected.

[king homer 1]

My two cents on the armor system:

Please remember, we cannot simulate every small square centimeter on a tanks hull.

The armor system differentiates between theoretically 10 and practically 8 different armor values:

turret front

turret side left

turret side right

turret back

turret top

hull front

hull side left

hull side right

hull back

hull bottom

Only 8 practically because mines and top attack weapons need special parameters set in config to affect the proper part.

These are divided in KE and CE protection (mm of RHA). We are using data from the internet/books on the protection and penetration. We had to do a lot of research to get all those datas but in the end some might not be correct but I can't tell you because most of it is classified anyway.

Furthermore we removed the explosions when a tank is completely destroyed. There are new factors now like ammo explosion, engine fire, engine explosion which will lead indeed to a complete vehicle destruction.

As Inkompetent stated before, Abrams is pretty unaffected by explosions while older tanks like the T-72A are likely to blow up.

So please do not wonder when vehicles wont blow up in a big fireball when they're hit by powerfull shells.

For example: When using M830A1 HEAT-MP against light armored vehicles like BMP-2 or Shilka it is unlikely they blow up but get disabled to the fullest. But there is always a probability only the turret gets hit and driver still can drive.

The system is still based on BI's basic hitpoint system with few hit selections and this you players have to take in account, is limiting the scripts in all ends.

The goal of this new armor system is NOT the full destruction of every vehicle, it is the capability of taking out vehicles with well placed shells, missiles, rockets.

And yes it will be improved further on but IT IS impossible to simulate real penetration and the randomness coming with it. Keep that in mind, we do our best to have the community satisfied - and this is one step to do so.

Edited January 26, 2010 by King Homer

[Banderas 0]

Thanks for clearing that KingHomer, I hope you and the team don't get offended by our posts, it's really only to give feedback to you what we think might be problematic (for my part at least) and not to whine around.

After further testing, I'm overally satisfied with this new armor system, but it sometimes gives me a WTF moment (for example when several sabots just bounces off from the rear of a T-72A, or driving away after being hit by a Maverick), and it is a bit unusual at the first time that you don't get kill count for what you have been "destroyed" (thinking of vehicles here), but that can be lead back to good old OFP times - for example if you damage an airplane enough for it to crash, the "ground will get the kill score" :) Well we have to learn to live without it

[mrcash2009 0]

Make sure your unit has the Map Tools, you should see it in your gear as an item, next to your map and compass and stuff.

I am not sure if its in the current distro of Dom, but you can add it in the editor by going adding this to the units init field:

Thank you as per my early original question some pages back I did ask if it was auto run or scripted .. so I guess that's "yes it scripted" I would have looked further, but initially it seemed like for map it would autorun :)

Shame in a way it would be nice to have this autoinit but maybe a config to turn off if not wanted, seems like something to have permanently for the map, anyway still a great feature,will plug this into my missions :)

Edited January 26, 2010 by mrcash2009

[evolve-r 10]

This weapons not have sound: Glock17 & Clock18 ,M60 ,M4 socom(with miniAimpoint & Iron Sight)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sickboy 13]

This weapons not have sound: Glock17 & Clock18 ,M60 ,M4 socom(with miniAimpoint & Iron Sight)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://dev-heaven.net/wiki/ace-mod2/Bugz (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Edited January 26, 2010 by Sickboy

[Q1184 0]

Regarding mines - they will never destroy a tank or APC. And they will always destroy one of the tracks or take out a couple of wheels. That's what they're for.

[Evil_Echo 11]

...

After further testing, I'm overally satisfied with this new armor system, but it sometimes gives me a WTF moment (for example when several sabots just bounces off from the rear of a T-72A, or driving away after being hit by a Maverick), and it is a bit unusual at the first time that you don't get kill count for what you have been "destroyed" (thinking of vehicles here), but that can be lead back to good old OFP times - for example if you damage an airplane enough for it to crash, the "ground will get the kill score" :) Well we have to learn to live without it

Just like RL - sometimes you have a crew kill and no idea if that tank is really dead - so you pump another round or two into it. Seeing a shot bounce off the hull is another special moment - ( 'reload, reload - HURRY!' ).

I know what you mean about "kill score" also. But as you said, A1 and A2 have not always managed to count all your kills correctly. Otherwise I'd be concidered Death Incarnate due to my knack for placement of artillery strikes so they intersect moving patrols and convoys. And all those jet and helo kills with tank guns/AT-4s.

But to be honest, I stopped caring about kill scores or any other score long ago. Stats just skew the game play for me, all that matters is my team doing well. If the ground gets credit for killing that Ka-50, who cares which of us did it as long as it's out of my sky? More important is that air-cover is down and now we can more easily slip into town to finish our objective and move on.

[manzilla 1]

Kill scores?! Do people actually care about the score? I just want to survive. ;)

[Banderas 0]

Kill scores?! Do people actually care about the score? I just want to survive. ;)

In MP I don't care too.

In SP it's an IL-2 Sturmovik-related illness, I want to paint tallies on the side of my cabin after every clash :D

Edit: I merely apologise if this had been asked, but it hit a nail in my thoughts... in ACE you have to actually use a laser sight to mark targets for several laser-guided aircraft weapons (GBU-12, Kh-29...), and right now the only way to precisely drop/fire these ordnances you have to get it targeted with an infantry-held laser designator. What about the onboard laser targeting/designator systems that these planes (A-10, Su-25) have in RL, will those be implemented?

Edited January 26, 2010 by Banderas

[HateDread 13]

As of latest update, I receive this on mission start-up;

42530.7 (0) XEH: PostInit Finished

Error in expression <(isNil "_id") then

{

;

(findDisplay 46) displayRemoveEventHandler [_key, _id];

}>

Error position: <displayRemoveEventHandler [_key, _id];

}>

Error Type Script, expected Number

File x\cba\addons\events\XEH_preClientInit.sqf, line 40

[trickster1982 10]

Really impressed with the effort you ACE lot have been making here, BIS should hire you if they make an Arma 3! All im waiting for now is some single player ACE missions that really take advantage of all the stuff you've put into it! Plenty of little things to be ironed out (noticed no muzzle flash or smoke when firing from a couple of vehicles) but on the whole top marks!

[manzilla 1]

Really impressed with the effort you ACE lot have been making here, BIS should hire you if they make an Arma 3! All im waiting for now is some single player ACE missions that really take advantage of all the stuff you've put into it! Plenty of little things to be ironed out (noticed no muzzle flash or smoke when firing from a couple of vehicles) but on the whole top marks!

I have a few SP missions over in the User Missions section that take advantage of most of the ACE2 stuff. I'll probably need to add some more stuff but overall it uses a lot of stuff.

[*tcf*jackal 10]

@Banderas - Take a look at Mando Missiles mod. Sounds like this is what you are looking for. Of course, this sort of tech could well make an appearance in ACE should the team decide. But if a mod already does this so well, as Mando does, there may not be much point.

Mando Missiles is soooooooooo good and together with ACE, makes ArmA II a complete package.

Edited January 26, 2010 by *TCF*Jackal

[Alex72 1]

Really impressed with the effort you ACE lot have been making here, BIS should hire you if they make an Arma 3! All im waiting for now is some single player ACE missions that really take advantage of all the stuff you've put into it! Plenty of little things to be ironed out (noticed no muzzle flash or smoke when firing from a couple of vehicles) but on the whole top marks!

There are some real missions like Manzilla, JW Custom and many many more made plus you have my simple ACE test missions with random enemy patrols. You can test all the ACE stuff out in it just to get familiar with all gear and features.

There are tons and tons and tons of ACE powered missions. Start checking the USER MISSION thread plus ARMAHOLIC.COM - everyday. Youll be surprised how many ACE missions come out.

[jasonnoguchi 11]

Really impressed with the effort you ACE lot have been making here, BIS should hire you if they make an Arma 3! All im waiting for now is some single player ACE missions that really take advantage of all the stuff you've put into it! Plenty of little things to be ironed out (noticed no muzzle flash or smoke when firing from a couple of vehicles) but on the whole top marks!

100% Made for ACE campaigns... the SEAL TEAM 6 series http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=94097 . You won't regret it! :)

[boevik 0]

Hello. I would like to see in ACE2 more realism the road. That is to reduce the rate of movement off-road. The same will be an advantage in the use of tracked vehicles. I do not know how much is possible, but it would be great.

Just do not like the view from the cab driver vehicle. Each vehicle (BMP, LAV, etc) has a minimum of three vision devices, it is possible to look only in one. Switching between these devices would enhance the realism of observation.

Hopefully I will be heard.

[manzilla 1]

Hello. I would like to see in ACE2 more realism the road. That is to reduce the rate of movement off-road. The same will be an advantage in the use of tracked vehicles. I do not know how much is possible, but it would be great.

Just do not like the view from the cab driver vehicle. Each vehicle (BMP, LAV, etc) has a minimum of three vision devices, it is possible to look only in one. Switching between these devices would enhance the realism of observation.

Hopefully I will be heard.

Are you saying get rid of command view and 3rd person? No way. There's still some SP players around plus those view have tremendous use for ordering around troops.

Or are you talking about being able to move the head while driving? That's free look and can be done.

Not sure what you are really asking though. My apologies.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Manzilla

[scubaman3D 0]

I tested the RPG-7VR against the side armor of an Abrams and a T-72...is the RL armor between the T-72 and M1A1 so different?

There is a difference in armor. I think the M1 frontal is rated 2x as much as T72 but its hard to quantify exactly how much this means in practical terms. From what I read, there are many cases of M1 (and even M2s) surviving multiple RPG7 hits in Iraq but also cases where they do not. I guess its about the location of the hit and a little bit of luck. Its more difficult to find reports of RPG7 survivability of T72s.

Also, I noticed a HUGE difference in the power of the AT-4 and the SMAW HEAA.. is that how it is in RL too?

Probably not. Again, its difficult to know for certain but based on what I read, the penetration of AT4 and SMAW AT systems should be ~ the same.

These are just feedback... :)

And where do we put feedback like this that's important for us to see? ;)

[jasonnoguchi 11]

@Scubaman, thank you for your attention. :) Yeah, I know the place, just didn't think its that important a feedback as the feature rocks. :) I don't really think it needs to be changed in any way.

[anc 0]

Is there any way for me to put more mods in the shortcut using the updater?

Because my shortcut is full and i wish to put more mods in the list.

"C:\Program Files\Bohemia Interactive\ArmA 2\arma2.exe" -noSplash -noFilePatching -mod=@CBA;@ACE;@ACEX;@ACEX_PLA;@ACEX_SM;@namalsk;@isla_duala;@panthera;@sap_everon;@japahto;@FRAN_quesh_kibrul;@FRAN_sbrodj;@six_aiaktalik;@FFAA_Civiles_Arabes;@FFAA_Terroristas

Best regards

[Jimbo762.au 0]

I have an odd issue. None of the laser range finders work.

I have a battrie I look into them and "re-load" "Fire" nothing happens ideas?

[Inkompetent 0]

Is there any way for me to put more mods in the shortcut using the updater?

Because my shortcut is full and i wish to put more mods in the list.

"C:\Program Files\Bohemia Interactive\ArmA 2\arma2.exe" -noSplash -noFilePatching -mod=@CBA;@ACE;@ACEX;@ACEX_PLA;@ACEX_SM;@namalsk;@isla_duala;@panthera;@sap_everon;@japahto;@FRAN_quesh_kibrul;@FRAN_sbrodj;@six_aiaktalik;@FFAA_Civiles_Arabes;@FFAA_Terroristas

Best regards

Afraid that due to the length limit of the path line in shortcuts you are either limited to an addon manager, or you'll have to start bunch addons together, like making a single "islands" folder and so on. I'm starting to suffer from the same problem.. =/