Dragon Rising has been released

[Stryker_1 10]

As long as devs and publishers are making profit from mediocre/beta games or series they wont change much.

Why developers should create less but high-quality stuff and features if most players only like to play another soulless but hyped game?

How many games do cover a poor storyline and some bugs with overblown special effects?

There is no real reason to think that developers from other countries wont make profit and try to milk their customers. They are perhaps only using a different marketing. ;)

Basic business 101, supply and demand. The ship will sail if the product sells. Investors see the console market as $$ opportunity and CM appears to be short sighted when considering their reputation as a good games developer. Quality can mean nothing as long as the $$ is rolling in. Look at the North American auto industry, imports have taken a big chunk of market share over recent years. GM always had a philosophy "We Build It, You Buy It" That philosophy worked when you sold everything you made, the quality took a back seat. Consumers in the console market want nothing more than a quick fix and eye candy. Their expectations are lower and the trend with trade ins/ups for console games is working. Buy said title for $65-$70 and once bored with it trade it in for credit and move on to the next. DR great example, I have already given mine away, and I was in EB games the other day, the amount of used copies...LOL...I have countless PC games that I bought years ago and still play to this day. BIS's software is one of them. I have bought BIS's product because it is a PC game and love this kind of simulation. Also because their name is stamped on it! I now watch carefully who the developer is and now really discern before I purchase any game. The crap that is out there :confused: It's interesting that BIS has stayed the course with their business model. BIS has already noted in an interview that they will have to be in the console market for survival.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgkkkKgRSU4

At 4:16

It'll be interesting to see where the games market is headed. Thankfully we'll have ARMA II + Operation Arrowhead + Community for years and years :D

Edited January 24, 2010 by Stryker_1

[Taurus 20]

BIS has already noted in an interview that they will have to be in the console market for survival. It'll be interesting to see where the games market is headed. Thankfully we'll have ARMA II + Operation Arrowhead + Community for years and years :D

That would be horrible. :(

Not related to anything with Dragon Rinsing or anything, but about these dreaded consoles.

Is it because children buys the consoles the games are so popular, or the regular "older" gamer who became fed up with compatibility issues,

the requirement of gaming rigs which the history has never seen?

Previously I mostly enjoyed two types of games.

Racing-sims like Jeoff Crammonds Grand Prix series.

Tactical shooters as Rainbox Six.

Both those gaming types has been destroyed by the consoles, I laughed so hard some weeks before Christmas when I saw a F1 "simulator"

which was to be played on the Wii... I mean seriously?

There are some games which has survived the requirement for both consoles and PC, but they are few.

Dragon Age is one of them, another game I play from time to time is "Flatout" which is a fun racing game.

And ofc Fallout 3.

For the tactical shooters, what is left is ArmA, which is a great game but doesn't really suits my need of a "real" simulator when it comes to bullet keneticts (i.e. piercing through armour), bullets being affected by the wind, etc etc.

And Silent Hunter 3, SH4 wasn't all that fun, and I'm eagerly awaiting SH5, looks awesome.

IMHO, the consoles are destroying the gaming industry, and will be the end of the PC-gaming industry :(

Edited January 24, 2010 by Taurus

[Placebo 28]

IMHO, the consoles are destroying the gaming industry

Nonsense, developers making crappy games at the behest of their publisher backers are what's destroying the gaming industry, plenty of excellent games out there on all formats.

[dm 9]

Nonsense, developers making crappy games at the behest of their publisher backers are what's destroying the gaming industry, plenty of excellent games out there on all formats.

QFT.

Consoles are just an easy scapegoat to gloss over the bigger problem: people willing to lap up whatever shit is pushed in their direction.

Take any of the MW2 "boycotts" for example. The steam groups were specifically "eye opening" when after release you saw at least half of the members of all the various boycott groups "currently playing: call of duty: modern wafare 2"

Until people learn to keep the wallet in their pocket, we're going to continue to see crappy title after crappy title (with the odd diamond in the rough).

But I fear this is rather OT... :j:

Edited January 24, 2010 by DM
corrected some wording

[Taurus 20]

Yep, its OT, sorry for bringing it up.

I'm also sorry for even writing on these boards, I'll stop doing this now I think.

As I obviously lack the, what is the word, it begins with e, and ends with ness..

People buying what ever crap which was put in front of them wasn't exactly new with PC games a few years back either.

But I'm yet to see games which are both for consoles and PC which covers great MP experiences, "Online up to 16 people" wow!!

Thanks for the answer DM, and even put bluntly by Placebo.

[Tonci87 163]

QFT.

Consoles are just an easy scapegoat to gloss over the bigger problem: people willing to lap up whatever shit is pushed in their direction.

Take any of the MW2 "boycotts" for example. The steam groups were specifically "eye opening" when after release you saw at least half of the members of all the various boycott groups "currently playing: call of duty: modern wafare 2"

Until people learn to keep the wallet in their pocket, we're going to continue to see crappy title after crappy title (with the odd diamond in the rough).

But I fear this is rather OT... :j:

Thats soo true. I think Gamers(me too) are like drug adicts. They just cant resist.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

Mainstreme game Formula for successful title:

Flashy graphics

Nifty Marketing

game that can be completed between Friday and Monday. Rent it on Friday, beat it, return it Monday. When you have Blockbuster and other big box stores buying thousands of copies to rent over and over makes the money. One title that get's rented for 5 days doesn't make the same amount of cash as one they can turn over faster.

[VanhA-ICON 11]

Is it because children buys the consoles the games are so popular, or the regular "older" gamer who became fed up with compatibility issues,

the requirement of gaming rigs which the history has never seen?

IMHO, the consoles are destroying the gaming industry, and will be the end of the PC-gaming industry :(

Oh, come on.. One should not take gaming that serious. I purchased the original flashpoint and have been playing the series ever since release AND simultaneously I've had PS, PS2 and now PS3.

They co-exist just fine together.

Sometimes it's much more fun to just ease on couch with wireless controller and just play without getting the forehead all wrinkled up.

Sorry the off topic

[Nazul 10]

WTF is this guy talking about?

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/operation-flashpoint-dragon-rising-game-pc-113/399198-does-pc-community-have-mission-designers-game-moders-2.html#post6000912

i believe all the dedicated modding teams like the Arma ACE team have all shut up shop and are looking for a game that supports what they want to achieve

[eble 3]

WTF is this guy talking about?

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/operation-flashpoint-dragon-rising-game-pc-113/399198-does-pc-community-have-mission-designers-game-moders-2.html#post6000912

He didn't explain himself very well, I think he means the modders for DR and not arma2 tho it very confusing to say the least.

[vilas 474]

i read what you wrote about Eastern Europe and yes, passion and love not "sales" here are most important

thats why it differ those products, i know few people working in gaming industry here and don't earning "gold mountains" as coder on west

but they do what they love and it makes other products

also topic about "sequels" in games comes from fact that "teenagers will buy Rambo9, CoD8, GR 14" etc.

look at Russian great games : Stalker, You Are Empty, Ubersoldier (maybe not so suer), old Polish Chrome (best graphics 5 years ago, great maps, but boring scenario), newer Witch... "Wiedzmin" etc.

those games are different from CoDSoFGRSWATs , why ?

it comes from the same as addons

for kids "US special forces in digital desert multicam and camo HK 416 Scar Masada 2050" are "badass", no matter how many games you do, soldier in digital desert camo and black vest - it is "badass" for kids

for us not, and thats why here other titles appear, some more crazy , more Mad-Max visions , crazy visions like from mad house (You are empty)

and because we do not copy CoD 8 MW4 SoF 7 - you notice those games

who need another "US mercenary sepcial forces in digital desert camo and M4 on desert industrial plant leaded by voice of woman from intel" ?

Project IGI was super, but IGI2 to was boring

SoF 1,2 okay, but 3 was boring

etc.

we don't copy previous scenario, west developers do copy themselves because their customers want it

if customer want - company gave it

so if most of 12-16 years old kids shout "give me another special forces in black vest" they do it, no matter scenario is the same, location is the same, weapons are the same

simply their "market target" demand "special forces on desert area and industrial area" which will be another soulless product - yes "product"

OFP, Stalker etc. are not only "products" - they are "stories" also

thats differ games made of "passion" and games made of "sales"

cause fat manager do not love gaming, he has no other passion than money making

even if his employee have great ideas, he will smash them

cause it is difference like in music:

rock/reggae/punk/metal musician - few friends play something they "feel" in heart and record it and people want to visit show

"pop" music is "created" in mind of fat "manager" : "ooo there must be rhythm and melody, okay, now you will sing about love and sex... ooo Paul or Thomas has a lyrics for you, John will play there bass, Peter will play here on guitar, Mark will fit your voice by software, nooo, don't sing this word like that, do it other way, ooo there we do clip, you have to wear shorter skirt, suuuper, shake ass, super, okay, who's next in next month?"

Judas Priest, Metallica play for 30 years, Phil Collins for 40 years

who will know Britney next year ? who knows now some pop stars from 5 years ago ?

the same with games too

CoD8 in few years, who will remember CoD6 ?

but RTCW1 , Max Payne1, OFP1, AVP 1 , Stalker and some other Russian games - those are great games

but they copy previous scenario, cause next year - next kid becomes customer

who will now buy AVP1, IGI1, RTCW1 ???? me, you, but kids ???

BIS is other example - they made open engine which is in use for years

other companies "close" games and after 2 days of play: no missions, no maps etc. "buy another one"

thats why CM deserve very very big kick between legs - they wasted holy title "OFP" making another "buy another"

and when you talk about East - Finland is east too ;) Max Payne 1 - this was awesome for me :)

i don't know how about you, but me:

- few years on and on AVP1, RTCW, Max Payne1, OFP, Project IGI 1 etc.

DR sucks for me mostly of becoming another CoD 1.132679 "product" using word "Operation Flashpoint"

they can hype and etc.

but should be forbidden to use OFP title, but title was used "for sales", not "for passion"

when you do something under marketing manager - you get other effect than doing it with passion and imagination

if all games would be done only under marketing menagers pressure - most of us would not be here in this community, OFP was made by people full of passion and stood thanx to passion (addons)

noone payed first addonmakers, island makers, mission makers etc. - those guys from 2001, 2002, 2003 - made this community and power of OFP "for free" :)

and lack of this made DR sucking :)

Edited January 25, 2010 by vilas

[Richey79 10]

In the UK, if you say in an interview that passion is more important to you than sales, you can kiss the job goodbye.

Absolutely agree with you Vilas that this type of developer is to be treasured. Look at how long Remedy are taking over Alan Wake. Remember the original Stalker and how THQ had to bring in a foreigner to make the team finish the game rather than adding more things to it? For me, Witcher was a much better game than Dragon Age Origins. There was the sheer ambition of the game 'Boiling Point' - even if it provides another example of ambition overreaching the developers' level of ability and the technology available to them. Heck, Cryostasis had a great story line, even if the gameplay was like playing a version of Killing Floor in which only one enemy ever appeared on screen at a time because the game engine was so hideously optimised.

To meet the whim of investors and shareholders, studios are now forced to 'diversify' and make clones of whatever was the big game of the last couple of years. It may be that 60% of the devs have zero interest in this genre, but who cares when it's all with the goal of making loadsamoney?

Games are now in the position that they make too much money - the wrong people begin to think it's a good idea to get into making games. As a creative industry, they're leaving their infancy, much as cinema did. Think of how many God-awful films you've wasted your time watching. But there's always the pleasure of finding something delightful (and completely unhyped) that was made outside Hollywood.

[vilas 474]

aaa Witcher - i forget, yes, Wiedzmin=witcher :)

they do own-previous clones, cause next kid in next year want new game

kid doesn't know "it was made already five times"

cause kid is like born today and buy today

who will now go to shop to search for MaxPayne1, RTCW1, AVP1, IGI1 ???

next year, next kid will have 12, 15 and want "new"

and gets new

older gamer , who grown on AVP1, Wolfenstein 3D, Doom - value good things

kids have no taste at all

concerning non-hyped movies - i know, i watch those non hyped or simply old movies :)

and in my city there is cinema with non-hollywood movies from whole world (Mexico, Iran, Irish, French, Russian etc. ) or old movies from 50s 60s too

in Poland we also have some TV channels about "culture" and non-pop movies (TVP Kultura, Kino Polska, Ale Kino) that show sometimes very weird movies , off-movies , things like Padre Noster, Delikatessen, I aka Icaruss, 12 angry men etc. or etiudes like "Krok, Rejs, Hydrozagadka"

kids go to next "booom booom famous actor spent few months on gym, has M16A1 and ammo belt (from M240) and neverending ammo and woman around him and he blows whole building from this M16"

and my friends watch ... other movies

but one customer has 15 years old, his taste is "i like music from radio, i like movies from advertisement, my girl must look like from MTV and i wear not comfortable trousers cause they are on Bravo"

and another customer is 30, much more IQ, some education, verified taste etc.

CM can do (and will do) DR2, DR3 and pathetic boys will buy it

they will be moaning that there is no support for 2, next year next kid will buy DR3 ...

cause their customers change every year

BIS customers are here since 8 years

makes difference

we are BIS advertisements and no matter of CM-like hypes, i was active on some forums to say "buy Arma2, f*** DR"

i am showing on for example one forum about PC - Arma2 screens telling "look , you can have our national army ONLY in this game, look Polish soldier, no other game like this, here you can have all unit what you want, no other game allow to have own army and play it"

i bought OFP RES because my neighbor came to me "look i made own mission, look i tried to do street bus and they will get in, get out in other city" , my friend Tom was making on desert island own constructions in editor and me - "never seen it before"

it made OFP great, and it also made DR "knocking below bottom level"

357-th page about how DR sucks :D

cause in DR i will never see Lego warriors, Dinosaurs, Rambo, Polish army, Norwegian Army, Swedish army, HK G3, FAL, UZI, Merkava, knights versus laser guns, cow vs. T80 :)

look at CM attitude towards community - zero care

BIS ?

i moaned about not realistic weapon ranges, patch 1.05 - boom BIS made realistic ranges :)

Edited January 25, 2010 by vilas

[Emberwolf 0]

WTF is this guy talking about?

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/operation-flashpoint-dragon-rising-game-pc-113/399198-does-pc-community-have-mission-designers-game-moders-2.html#post6000912

ACE is so active that they had to adopt an SVN-style distribution system just to make it easier for users to stay up to date. Hell, some ACE servers are set up to update themselves and restart automatically.

The perpetual stream of blatant lies from these DR players is getting extremely tiring.

[myshaak 0]

Vilas, agree with you on all points!

However, in Czech Rep. we have a saying, roughly translated as: "An exception proves a point." And yesterday I found a very interesting exception - I found a video on youtube about one of my most favourite "oldschool" game, Trespasser (1998).. and the video was made by a 12 year old kid! And that kid knew about the game, about the developement, about story and about the whole thing much more than I do and I used to be a hardcore fan.

So I guess that even between the gamers you would call CoD-kiddies there are a few exceptions interested in "gaming relics" :)

[vilas 474]

wyjątek potwierdza regułę - exeption proves general rule ;)

but also jaskółka wiosny nie czyni - first sparrow do not mean that spring comes

old games , OFP, Arma2 have "atmosphere, feeling, passion " even when i look at Arma2 and i am surpise "BIS made one brick out of wall , woow, they spent some time to make irregular corner of house, woood there is a hole in this roof , woow there is flower here and near this can"

but most of so called COD-gamers do not feel it, like on Polish forum of young gamers "who cares T73 or T69, tank must sound almighty" when i told them about Arma in Dragon Rising topic

DR customers are:

- or not informed about Arma2

- wrongly informed about Arma2 by black PR marketing

- *** (dirty words) ignorants (if they say they DO like military games and they care about some realistic accents in games)

- simple kids who want to "shoot some stuff yeaaaah" (if they not care about some realism, some military accuracy) , for them it is just another shooter between CoD5, SoF4, Commando Seal Recon SWAT Superhero War SEALS Specnaz game

[Bulldogs 10]

It reminds me of a recent interview I was reading with Irrational Games, creators of System Shock 2, Tribes : Vengence, Freedom Fighters, Bioshock, etc.

They were talking about how their creative process is based around not what they think people want, but what they want in a game. They point extra queues to Bioshock stating that they have some pretty weird facinations and they were all stunned when Bioshock was a hit because it was just some weird stuff that came out of their heads that they never expected such a wide audience for.

Just a pity that the Bioshock publishers have dumped them to have a larger developer make Bioshock 2.

[Tonci87 163]

If you like some weird but really good Films, then seach for... Well in german its called "In China essen sie Hunde" witch means "They eat Dogs in China" (he Film has nothing to do with China or Dogs). I think it was a Swedish production. Very very good Film^^.

Its really a shame if you nask someone "Hey do you know Arma2?" And he says "Never heard of it" After that you tell him something about it, show him some Vids on Youtube and he wants to have it^^. Arma is just great, but BIS needs a little more Advertising. Especially here in Germany where Arma came out first, and especially because of the very negative Tests at release (Arma2=buggy as Hell, but didn´t say that they tested without the release Patch) there are many People that don´t know how great the game is.

[templargfx 10]

DR customers are:

- or not informed about Arma2

- wrongly informed about Arma2 by black PR marketing

- *** (dirty words) ignorants (if they say they DO like military games and they care about some realistic accents in games)

- simple kids who want to "shoot some stuff yeaaaah" (if they not care about some realism, some military accuracy) , for them it is just another shooter between CoD5, SoF4, Commando Seal Recon SWAT Superhero War SEALS Specnaz game

Some people do just like it you know, and they are allowed to, without you insulting there intelligence. (and funnily enough you just end up insulting yours)

[vilas 474]

Some people do just like it you know, and they are allowed to, without you insulting there intelligence. (and funnily enough you just end up insulting yours)

i know that some people may like it, i know

i have seen in tv guy who said he will eat his excrements to be famous too

also i have seen in TV such guys who thought they can sing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSN28fMv9zE

i am sure they also find more realism in Dragon Rising

me, fully expetacione fulfilmentum

shoot some, yeah, bang some, yeah, hugh hardcore, yeah

real and true sequel to PFO ...sorry OFP, the most realistic military simulation i ever plate ... sorry played

i had a deram, i had a draem, i had a dream - game of the year

i will start countles battles in Drangon Rising

and for sure they would never been banned because they told "in Arma2 there is no 63AI limit, there are jets and team can have more than 3 units"

behold thine belief and support CM thou sinners !

Edited January 25, 2010 by vilas

[templargfx 10]

I'll slot you into the "mature" arma2 fan list then

[Bulldogs 10]

You've really gotta admire the effort Vilas go's to.

[bascule42 10]

lmfao vilas....that's a slice of fried comedy gold.

[jw custom 56]

Some people do just like it you know, and they are allowed to...

Or they hyped it up to kick ArmA 2's a$$ even before it got released, now they know have crappy it is but are too proud/embarrassed to admit they were wrong lol :p

[vilas 474]

Positive feedback part 1 ( http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1553657&postcount=3570 )

POSITIVE FEEDBACK PART 2

i've working in this business for 20 years and i have never seen anything comparable to Dragon Rising

[iM]http://unrealitymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/childhoodtitlle.jpg[/img]>100kb

this shooter really frightened me

we're gonna make soundtrack for it when we will get some crack

thanx to dedicated servers every night we meet each other in multiplayer

looking forward to see next patch from Codemasters that will kick Arma2 ass finally

Edited January 25, 2010 by Placebo