Dragon Rising has been released

[sudayev 27]

Reading Vilas's post regaring how things are handled at the CM forums only one thing comes to my mind. After their game took serious bashing from the original OFP fans they try to overhaul this already battered opinion by deletion of posts including any criticism. You might remember their big words almost slogan-like: Hardcore realism, revolution comes to combat sims and such ... blah blah blah In the end everything turn to be a pile of dung wrapped in a decorative paper.

No wonder Ofp fans are offended, CodeBusters should appologize for.

After my recent rig update I've compared both games. Arma II really rocks my socks and brings many warm OFP-like feelings. DR really irritated me with tons of bugs, unnatural colors, inferior testures, f*cked up lods, limited ai, no free addons, short campaign und viele mehr.

There was only one thing I could dream about in Arma2 - particle effects. Those were good compared to BIs ones.

Nevertheless DR landed in recycle bin. Comeback ? Not likely, maybe later after many rice bowls, patches and addons.

[Zipper5 74]

Ordered the PS3 version today. Hopefully they get rid of the bugs quickly, but that's something we're all used to by now.

I curious what will await me when I open the package tomorrow. I didn't read up a lot before ordering it - there's no serious alternative on the PS3 anyways. BIS will most likely (if at all) release ArmA II only for the XBox 360, so no sense in waiting for something better.

If you have never played OFP, ArmA or ArmA II on the PC, for whatever reason, then you'll probably love what DR brings you. If you have, even if it was OFP, and you understood even just the basics of it, you'll be extremely disappointed, like most of us here were.

[Mr.Wolf 10]

If you have never played OFP, ArmA or ArmA II on the PC, for whatever reason, then you'll probably love what DR brings you. If you have, even if it was OFP, and you understood even just the basics of it, you'll be extremely disappointed, like most of us here were.

I loved original OFP:CWC and I played first ArmA (imho bad game)...and you know what? I enjoy OFPDR too. I don't think it's such a bad game as most of people here claim.

Of course it's not perfect (and MP is total crap), but if you compare ArmA 1.0, ArmA II 1.0 and OFPDR 1.0, OFPDR clearly wins...That game just works, and is very well playable. It has some bugs, but nothing critical.

Try some AI tweaks and custom missions. I haven't expected that, but some missions really have "flashpoint feeling" (especially on hardcore mode without saves).

[maturin 12]

CoD4 1.0 had like, no bugs. It clearly wins.

You can't really compare Arma and DR. The only way you can is to line up the elements and features they share, and compare the gameplay where it overlaps. And then, if you are a dishonest game industry critic or a fanboy, you studiously ignore the 60% of content and possibility that Arma offers and is simply beyond DR's wildest dreams. The console port is simply incapable of doing half what Arma can do. And no amount of mods or patches can change that.

But have you seen the javelin animation?!?

Edited October 27, 2009 by maturin

[william1 0]

I loved original OFP:CWC and I played first ArmA (imho bad game)...and you know what? I enjoy OFPDR too. I don't think it's such a bad game as most of people here claim.

Of course it's not perfect (and MP is total crap), but if you compare ArmA 1.0, ArmA II 1.0 and OFPDR 1.0, OFPDR clearly wins...That game just works, and is very well playable. It has some bugs, but nothing critical.

Try some AI tweaks and custom missions. I haven't expected that, but some missions really have "flashpoint feeling" (especially on hardcore mode without saves).

completely agree, not to mention than DR AI is much better than ofp or Arma AI

[Zipper5 74]

Of course it's not perfect (and MP is total crap), but if you compare ArmA 1.0, ArmA II 1.0 and OFPDR 1.0, OFPDR clearly wins...That game just works, and is very well playable. It has some bugs, but nothing critical.

Saying that ArmA and ArmA II don't work and aren't playable is just wrong. Both work flawlessly for me. DR also performs very well, but doesn't exactly bear a huge load.

Try some AI tweaks and custom missions. I haven't expected that, but some missions really have "flashpoint feeling" (especially on hardcore mode without saves).

Well, DR is uninstalled on my PC, never to be installed again. However, I did try the AI tweaks and messed around with a few custom missions, even tried creating my own. The AI tweaks are just stupid, now instead of never hitting you, they always hit you. It seems you can only have one extreme or the other due to the way CM made their AI. Also, all custom missions currently released for the game are extremely poorly made, but I don't blame them. I blame the lack of any scripting information being released to the public, as well as CM encrypting their files obviously intending on people not to look at them. Denying the fanbase the ability to mod already makes this game a bastard child of the OFP name.

Saying the game evokes any form of a "Flashpoint feeling" is wrong in my opinion. I played through the entire campaign (once I got past one mission that just randomly decided to end on the 5th playthrough) and played all of the SP missions, and then played in MP. Not a single time did I enjoy myself. Not only does it not give a feeling of playing OFP, but it doesn't give any sense of fun at all. For me, at least. Hardcore is also ridiculous and just a cop-out by the developers. Not once did I see anyone in their fanbase say that they should remove everything. If there was, it was probably only one. It's worse than COD4's Hardcore mode, and makes the game even less enjoyable.

completely agree, not to mention than DR AI is much better than ofp or Arma AI

Eugh...

Edited October 27, 2009 by Zipper5

[kavoven 4]

I posted one review on this and got a few thumbs down. lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2VKpNYB01U

Haha, I caught myself several times trying to use the right enter key to switch to 3rd person mode :D

[Leopardi 0]

completely agree, not to mention than DR AI is much better than ofp or Arma AI

how exactly is a dumbass AI that misses all his ammunition if you strafe near him better than arma ai? And then the AI guy gets an overload and starts shooting at a random direction the rest of his ammunition?

[william1 0]

The AI tweaks are just stupid, now instead of never hitting you, they always hit you. It seems you can only have one extreme or the other due to the way CM made their AI

Eugh...

how exactly is a dumbass AI that misses all his ammunition if you strafe near him better than arma ai? And then the AI guy gets an overload and starts shooting at a random direction the rest of his ammunition?

and even like that it is clearly better , so you can imagine how it is arma ai...

Edited October 27, 2009 by william1

[EricM 0]

That game just works,

MP isn't a gamebreaker ? Arma has bugs because it tries (and does) so much more, without constraints imposed on the player... And on my machine it works.

And to see that DR runs at 120 FPS on a PC is a testimony that CM didn't fully use the computer potential : anything past 20/30 FPS is considered fluid to most human eyes, and there is no visible gain perceived above 50/60 fps.

So instead of 100's of FPS they could have thrown twice as many entities or simulate more stuff in the game to get a solid 30/40 FPS.

DR AI is much better than ofp or Arma AI

Talking about arma 1 and OFP from 2001 ?

Edited October 27, 2009 by EricM

[Mr.Wolf 10]

Saying that ArmA and ArmA II don't work and aren't playable is just wrong. Both work flawlessly for me. DR also performs very well, but doesn't exactly bear a huge load.

I talk about 1.0 versions, and honestly, those just don't work properly:).

The AI tweaks are just stupid, now instead of never hitting you, they always hit you.

Wrong. You can choose from 6 difficulties, and without dispersion fix it's not more difficult than vanilla game (it doesn't effect acuracy, only AI acting - covering, flanking etc...)

Also, all custom missions currently released for the game are extremely poorly made, but I don't blame them.

Every day it's better and better. Mission makers just need time to discover all LUA possibilities.

Denying the fanbase the ability to mod already makes this game a bastard child of the OFP name.

I agree with this, it's a shame:(.

Saying the game evokes any form of a "Flashpoint feeling" is wrong in my opinion.

Well, this is subjective...

Edited October 27, 2009 by Mr.Wolf

[Leopardi 0]

Eugh...

and even like that it is clearly better , so you can imagine how it is arma ai...

eh, no it's not. are you really that stupid or just trolling?

[Zipper5 74]

I talk about 1.0 versions, and honestly, those just don't work properly:).

I cannot attest to v1.0, but v1.01 that got shipped with the 505 Games version worked perfectly fine for me. It's only gotten better since. Even then, v1.0 was out for, what, a day or two before v1.01 was released? DR has been released for over a week and nothing has changed.

Wrong. You can choose from 6 difficulties, and without dispersion fix it's not more difficult that vanilla game (it doesn't effect acuracy, only AI acting - covering, flanking etc...)

Hm, I highly doubt someone has already been able to do such a complex modification to the AI system without any tools what so ever. Judging from how DR's AI already acts by default, however, it might not be that complex... :j:

I never knew this fix you speak of existed, I only tried that dispersion fix, which is what I based my comment off.

[william1 0]

eh, no it's not. are you really that stupid or just trolling?

yes, it is. are you really that stupid or just trolling?

[Zipper5 74]

yes, it is. are you really that stupid or just trolling?

Hey, william1, could you please stay out of this thread in the future? Posts like yours contributed to the last one being closed, and now you're doing the same thing in this thread. We're discussing, and you're flamebaiting.

[william1 0]

, well , i have the same right to post in this thread as you, and i'm not the one who is flamebaiting like i'm not the one who started using words like stupid to rebate an opinion.

[Mr.Wolf 10]

I cannot attest to v1.0, but v1.01 that got shipped with the 505 Games version worked perfectly fine for me. It's only gotten better since. Even then, v1.0 was out for, what, a day or two before v1.01 was released? DR has been released for over a week and nothing has changed.

Well, I admit that I can't talk about ArmA2, because I played only demo and few minutes of german release, but comparing to ArmA1 version 1.08, DR 1.0 is still much more polished.

Hm, I highly doubt someone has already been able to do such a complex modification to the AI system without any tools what so ever. Judging from how DR's AI already acts by default, however, it might not be that complex... :j:

Core of AI is not bad, only engaging values are f*cked...Look at this post:

That new Ultimate AI mod is actually pretty good as it really opens up the firefight distance, enhances AI cover schemes a takes away that stupid 'bullet shield' that protects both player and AI.

Testing things out, I placed 20 US soldiers all in a village while 20 Chinese forces where incoming. I also placed an empty LAV and a 4man squad in a boat about 400 meters away, all with no real waypoints or orders.

The results were pretty impressive! The US forces stood around doing absolutely nothing until the Chinese were spotted, but then proceeded to send one firesquad far wide to flank and another firesquad actually jumped into the LAV and prepared for combat. The men in the boat, upon hearing gunfire, disembarked, and began working there way up scraggly rock, and flanked the Chinese from the other side. I have to admit, it looked pretty convincing and all of this done without any orders.

Another nice thing I noticed were AI really using cover very well. There was 1 Chinese soldier that was using a wall to pop and shoot many US so I sent my Ai team over to take him out. My squad actually used different angles to approach the wall but the Chinese soldier kept maneuvering correctly and eliminated my guys one at a time. The effeciency that an Ai bot was able to inch and adjust using that little wall was pretty impressive.

This mod has made the game much more interesting and it's worth a try. I'm starting to suffer from a psychotic split trying to analyze this game

I never knew this fix you speak of existed, I only tried that dispersion fix, which is what I based my comment off.

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=391694

[Zipper5 74]

, well , i have the same right to post in this thread as you, and i'm not the one who is flamebaiting like i'm not the one who started using words like stupid to rebate an opinion.

To say that DR's AI is better than ArmA II's AI over and over and over again should be considered trolling. Before the game's release, sure, you could say that. But post-release it's incredibly evident that the AI in DR is terrible by default, and anyone who says otherwise must be blind to the countless videos, statements, screenshots, and even to them playing the game themselves. It is AI like in COD4. It's spawned, shoots, and does little else but be cannon fodder for the player. It needs heavy scripting and the placement of many different gamelogic-like elements in the editor to get them to do incredibly simple things that they should already do by default. Sure, ArmA II's AI isn't perfect at all, but it's so obviously better than DR's AI, despite it's flaws.

[vilas 477]

like someone said before

FPS above 25 is not mentioned by human eye

for usual human movie is good with 24 photos per second (usual movie in cinema)

so there is no difference for player 50 or 30 FP

FPS we can only treat "how much free power left to my PC"

[william1 0]

To say that DR's AI is better than ArmA II's AI over and over and over again should be considered trolling.

ah OK, and then saying the opposiite is not trolling? good logic.

Before the game's release, sure, you could say that. But post-release it's incredibly evident that the AI in DR is terrible by default, and anyone who says otherwise must be blind to the countless videos, statements, screenshots, and even to them playing the game themselves. It is

DR is great by default, it desn't need scripting to flank you, search for cover, leaning behind trees or maneovering , it really feels like you are fighting against a threating enemy.

[Dwarden 1125]

like someone said before

FPS above 25 is not mentioned by human eye

for usual human movie is good with 24 photos per second (usual movie in cinema)

so there is no difference for player 50 or 30 FP

FPS we can only treat "how much free power left to my PC"

http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm

:cool:

[TimRiceSE 10]

You realise that OFP DR and ArmA2 were both supposed to be released around may/june this year right? the difference is ArmA2 got released, OFPDR didnt (and apparently at this stage it was very very broken) so they had 6 months extra to work on it. And its still a piece of shit. A polished piece of shit, admittedly.

[Zipper5 74]

ah OK, and then saying the opposiite is not trolling? good logic.

What I'm saying is that it's fact that DR's AI is heavily scripted and ArmA II's is not. Given the range of things that ArmA II's AI does successfully & dynamically compared to the range of things DR's AI does successfully & dynamically, it is a proven fact that ArmA II's AI is the winner out of the two. I don't know what you're seeing that makes it seem better, as I have yet to see anything done by their AI equal to or better than what ArmA II's can.

DR is great by default, it desn't need scripting to flank you, search for cover, leaning behind trees or maneovering , it really feels like you are fighting against a threating enemy.

Yes, it does. Have you even tried the mission editor? You have to tell it to do even the most basic parts of AI programing. Not once did I ever feel I was threatened by the AI, only when they rolled up in tanks. Suddenly their accuracy shot up when that happened...

But hey, to each his own. If you enjoy DR then alright, enjoy it. It just saddens me that this gives them the incentive to make any sequels to the game...

Edited October 27, 2009 by Zipper5

[markushaze 10]

I think this goes in the Most fabulous quotes section :-)

By TimRiceSE

You realise that OFP DR and ArmA2 were both supposed to be released around may/june this year right? the difference is ArmA2 got released, OFPDR didnt so they had 6 months extra to work on it. And its still a piece of shit. A polished piece of shit, admittedly.

I haven't played the game ...what was the title? ah Dragoons Ricing.

no, but judging from the reviews, it cant be THAT great.

Now, its been released, and the user reviews.. sorry, i mean the Mil-Sim Fan reviews tell me its ( see the quote above ), no way i`m gonna install that!

Thanx.

Rock on BIS :-) ( no i am not a fanboy, just a satisfied customer :-)

[max power 21]

Rock on BIS :-) ( no i am not a fanboy, just a satisfied customer :-)

With the way 'fanboi' is thrown around these forums, they are pretty much the same thing.