Dragon Rising has been released

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

But I thought Dragon Rising was so perfect and the AI was so flawless it didn't require any mods!

Oh wait, must've been speaking of another game.

Here's a video of me testing Veteran AI

---------- Post added at 11:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 AM ----------

Expect some copycats. I did a similar test in A2 and got a rifleman to be almost as stupid. He could shoot me at least, but I once managed to run three laps around him, sprint past him and he kept staring in the direction I appeared from, and I couldn't always get him to turn towards me when he was prone.

Figured out something... if you run behind something, then sidestep other direction, then continue in original direction, they get all confused.

[4 IN 1 0]

Luhgnut;1466745']Here's a video of me testing Veteran AI

Can you try that AI hardcore tweak too a few post above? I wonder how they act:j:

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

Can you try that AI hardcore tweak too a few post above? I wonder how they act:j:

I just switched them to the tweak in the above video mission, and they are deadly accurate. It's a big improvement for what it used to be. Problem is now, they never miss. Normal are totally inept, but if you kick it up one notch, they are all snipers with automatics. They went too far with it.

I'm pretty much done with the thing. I loaded it up to see if maybe I was just being too harsh on it. First time through the campaign, it was nearly laughable. And what's with the singing of the pseudo Chinese song in the beginning? At one point the guy sounds like he's puking.

Anyway, I put it on, again, and just looked at how stupid stuff was. I mean even in the very first mission, you have to go BACK to the LZ and secure it. But the LZ you have to secure is exactly in the same spot as you started, but now they spawned enemy. You start the first mission looking at the missle silo's, but they tell you to go the opposite direction, then you fail blowing up the missle silo's that are way off the opposite direction, and you run like a slug, I'm like you know, it's not worth the run. Second mission, I just stopped and looked at the pure stupidity of having to race to clear something before this massive invasion get's stopped. The whole story and mission setups are just plain moronic. I'm done with them. tired of making the video's really. I get an idea in my head and just do it, and the result is just plain stupid.

Edited October 18, 2009 by [RIP] Luhgnut

[Second 0]

Luhgnut;1466794']I just switched them to the tweak in the above video mission' date=' and they are deadly accurate. It's a big improvement for what it used to be. Problem is now, they never miss.[/quote']

By author, apply suppressive fire which reduces accuracy considerably. I think that there are skill-level checks so elite might not care a bit about suppression unlike green. Yeah i'm reading just the thread, so i clearly can't say anything about them.

Or try (if you wish) semi-hard tweak he made, idea of hardcore tweak was indeed to be hardcore.

Oh you edited your post... I would quess you won't be checking it out anymore :p

Edited October 18, 2009 by Second

[niQ® 0]

I like the A. I. how it behaves in this game.

I wish it were so for arma2:)

[4 IN 1 0]

I like the A. I. how it behaves in this game.

I wish it were so for arma2:)

Thanks, but no, thanks. ;)

Edited October 18, 2009 by 4 IN 1

[bangtail 0]

Thanks, but no, thanks. ;)

/signed.

The DR AI doesn't impress me. It's far too "2 dimensional".

Eth

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

I like the A. I. how it behaves in this game.

I wish it were so for arma2:)

First off, the AI in DR is all scripted. They are moronic. You get in the editor and you have to put a "AI Danger" object to clue the AI in that there's .... uh... Danger.

I've worked with their editor as far as I felt the need, simply to make fun of how the game works. You're never really in any "danger" until the script writer decides you should be in danger. You can set the AI level of each entity individually. The majority of the time they are "normal" and as stupid as a box of hard candy. You can literally go around playing Rambo. Then you just spawn in tougher ones on the fly. But they really aren't that tougher. Unless you put that mod somebody made. It's fake AI. They don't think, they don't flank or anything, unless they are in the "Danger" area. If you're outside that, they will just stand there. Hence the lack of real big battle areas, you trip a trigger, spawns in some guys, you're guys are then told they are in a danger area, and ACT like they are doing something. They are like scripted actors. If you don't tell them what to do, they won't do it on their own.

Everything in it is a cheap cop out. So a scenario maker just can constantly spawn in anything, anywhere, with any level of AI. If you go to an area, they want tougher, they just script in you getting hit with a bullet, but nothing really hit you. I mean you can script it to just kill you if you step in the wrong place. It's all horseshit. The game will be dead in 4 months I would guess. Nobody wants to take the time to write all that into a mission. Spawn in stuff, hide it. It's a lot of work to get them to act semi smart. You can shoot at them all day long, but if they aren't standing in a Danger Zone, they won't move for cover. They just squat down and spray bullet's all over. It's all fake.

Edited October 18, 2009 by [RIP] Luhgnut

[falcon988 0]

I posted this on the Codemasters forum today, just thought I'd show it to you all to see what you old school chaps (like me) have to say about it.

"So I just finished the game last night.

It is a FUN game. It is. Standout missions were 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, and 10. Out of eleven missions... not bad! It's at it's best in the stealth missions where the scale makes sense. For example mission 5, with my team's fighting withdrawal under heavy pursuit... that was a blast. Mission 6 with the infiltration into the fuel depot... a blast. Etc. I especially love watching my pursuers disappear under a desperate last second arty strike I call in.

There was something missing in the 'large scale' battles though. Atmospherically they work wonderfully. In terms of gameplay... it feels off. You're part of this 'great offensive' yet inevitably it's just you and your squad doing everything. There's moments that feel great, like the attack up the mountain in mission 9 but... it's mostly in your head. They don't rise to the potential they're capable of.

For example, in OFP there was a fantastic mission for FDFMod depicting a Russian against dug in Finnish fortifications, very similar to mission 9 in DR. And honestly that mission blows this one's away. I still remember to this day just barely clearing the Finnish second line and assembling with the surviving 15 - 20 Russian troops. Casualties had been horrific, all our armor had been taken out, etc. The Russian sergeant (in russian VA) shouted "This is it, one more push!", you 'go over the top' and into the breach once more and the sense of accomplishment you feel when you reach the top of the hill was like no other.

Dragon Rising just, rather inexcusably, lacks that sense of scale. It basically feels like GRAW 2 in the countryside. It's FUN but it's fun in the GRAW/R6 Vegas sort of way. It's good but it's good in a fast food sort of way. It lacks substance, it doesn't leave you satisfied. Honestly there's not a lot of 'Operation Flashpoint' in it.

In that particular FDFMod mission it would have been utterly impossible to have reached the top of the hill with a four man squad. No point in even trying. In Dragon Rising's mission 9 me and one other guy cleared out the monastery single handedly. In mission 11 myself and my two man squad cleared the naval base single handedly. Stuff like this is rather disappointing to me.

The closest Dragon Rising came to really capturing the OFP 'large scale battle' feel was in mission 3. The assault, capture, and defense of that village was very well designed and you -did- feel like you were part of a greater force, not just single handedly defending on your own. And I particularly liked the open endedness of it. Sometimes the PLA break through on the eastern/northern flanks, sometimes the U.S. repels them handily, etc. Reminded me of a stellar old OFP mission called 'Facile Ground'.

DR is a fun and good game, it just doesn't really satisfy me. Feel the way I felt after beating 'GRAW 2'... like, now what? Still, it'll be great fun to play co-op. The last mission isn't so good. Basically ended with me and the team just sitting there shooting PLA guys as they walked up to us.

I honestly don't find it to be overly realistic, despite what everyone on metacritic says. Saying this as someone who's been in the 'real thing' twice now (one 'conventional' and one 'low intensity guerilla' conflict'...a silly distinction if ever there was any), and can judge what's 'realistic' or not. You can die in one hit in GRAW and R6 Vegas too. Being vulnerable to bullets doesn't translate into realism, whether you're a tac-shooter or a milsim (and interestingly, ten years ago there wasn't a discernable difference between those two genres). There's just something missing here....

Maybe if there had been MORE of it, and with a more detailed storyline. storylines help a lot, just look at CoD4. The first Call of Duties were only okay games, but the inclusion of such a powerful and resonant story in CoD4 turned it into the best game of '07.

Just want to reiterate that all the stealth missions are blasts though. Dragon Rising is at it's best when you and your four man spec ops squad are behind enemy lines tracking the movements of a PLA general. Or reinforcing a pinned down fireteam.

There's a LOT of wasted opportunity. I never threw one single grenade, never drove or piloted any vehicle besides a humvee in one mission (and only for a little while), never saw off a PLA armored offensive, never ambushed a convoy... etc! It's only eleven missions and could have been much longer, there could have been much more variety in the missions. Even if there had been just just a small sequence of missions in which the PLA counter-attacks and forces you into a defensive role could have made for some interesting gameplay and changed things up a bit

I'm not sure if Dragon Rising has much longevity. New missions, either official or fanbased, would be great but it doesn't seem like the potential is here for there to be a large creative community like there was for OFP or its unofficial sequels that I won't mention here on this forum.

But it was a fun game. It did provide 7 hours of entertainment. Warrants a good 6/10 from me, or 2.5/4 stars in terms of movie ratings. About the same as I gave R6 Vegas or GRAW 2. It's just a bit disappointing. Like those other two franchises it's a shame to see OFP get so watered down .

Oh and by the way, while I'm here... a compass is SORELY needed in hardcore mode! I would play on hardcore more often if it weren't so darn annoying to have to go to the map screen constantly. Part of the fun of OFP was navigating using the compass and recognizable landmarks on your map. Getting around in hardcore mode in DR is just... annoying! It's a little thing but it would make a huge difference."

[vasmkd 12]

I tried this game over a mates house for the 1st time and it was not that bad but i could not see how this game is being compared to OFP/ARMA series in any way. It is definely more like modern warfare than ARMA with some extra features like editor and being able to drive/pilot vehicles.

It's more like a FPS with an editor and bigger world than ur average FPS.

If ur just looking for a fun game it's ok but you won't experience a OFP style game when on the battlefield. It's a shame they marketed it like a sequal to OFP because it cleary is not.

The graphics are not state of the art either and the AI are average.

I could play this type of game for a very short period but it' not going to fill my need for a mil sim in any way as ARMA2 run smooth for me and the mods/addons will just keep coming and coming.

I honestly thought it would be like ARMA 2 to a point but now that i tried it i can't believe people are comparing the games. Two very different games IMHO.

cheers

[Rista 0]

Luhgnut;1467067']First off' date=' the AI in DR is all scripted. They are moronic. You get in the editor and you have to put a "AI Danger" object to clue the AI in that there's .... uh... Danger.

I've worked with their editor as far as I felt the need, simply to make fun of how the game works. You're never really in any "danger" until the script writer decides you should be in danger. You can set the AI level of each entity individually. The majority of the time they are "normal" and as stupid as a box of hard candy. You can literally go around playing Rambo. Then you just spawn in tougher ones on the fly. But they really aren't that tougher. Unless you put that mod somebody made. It's fake AI. They don't think, they don't flank or anything, unless they are in the "Danger" area. If you're outside that, they will just stand there. Hence the lack of real big battle areas, you trip a trigger, spawns in some guys, you're guys are then told they are in a danger area, and ACT like they are doing something. They are like scripted actors. If you don't tell them what to do, they won't do it on their own.

Everything in it is a cheap cop out. So a scenario maker just can constantly spawn in anything, anywhere, with any level of AI. If you go to an area, they want tougher, they just script in you getting hit with a bullet, but nothing really hit you. I mean you can script it to just kill you if you step in the wrong place. It's all horseshit. The game will be dead in 4 months I would guess. Nobody wants to take the time to write all that into a mission. Spawn in stuff, hide it. It's a lot of work to get them to act semi smart. You can shoot at them all day long, but if they aren't standing in a Danger Zone, they won't move for cover. They just squat down and spray bullet's all over. It's all fake.[/quote']

I remember before DR came out, someone posted that video of 1700 AI in ARMA 2 on CM forums and some of the responses were "63 smart AI > 1700 dumb AI". So much for that, hehe.

Have to admit I haven't played with the editor too much because I've lost interest in the game but some of that stuff is absolutely pathetic. You really need to put a trigger in order for AI to realize they are in danger? :eek: Oh dear.

I wonder did the developers even play the original Operation Flashpoint. Because the game is a disaster at everything that made OFP different from anything else. They seem to have totally missed the point of an "open world game" concept with all the silly restrictions and limitations. Pretty much the only good thing about it is the balance between performance and graphics IMO.

[niQ® 0]

Pretty much the only good thing about it is the balance between performance and graphics IMO.

true. :) what is lacking in arma2.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

I would agree with Falcon988 Review pretty much to the wire.

Here's the screwy part. It's like a shooting gallery where the targets shoot a random fire spread all over, to where you actually get shot. You're just a bit part in a bad movie. You know you won't die. It's not like you have 3 saves only in the game to give you tension. You think you're really doing something and you're not. All this noise and battle and effects, and it's all just really for show. Sure you die, but it's usually by almost pure luck, or they scripted you taking damage. And yes, there is an object in their for AI Danger.

Here....

So you build your battles in the danger zone so the AI knows to fight. You drop one outside of the ring? They stare at you and fire all over. So to simulate a fight, they drop AI outside the ring, with waypoints. They shoot at you but never move under cover, then you put the real fight inside the circle. Now is that dumb as hell or what?

Remember if you quote this, strip out the graphics tags, so Wolle don't get ya.

[Bulldogs 10]

Personally I would have prefered a better balance between graphics and performance in DR. The fact that you can get 100fps on max settings with an 8800GT just doesn't seem right.

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

Personally I would have prefered a better balance between graphics and performance in DR. The fact that you can get 100fps on max settings with an 8800GT just doesn't seem right.

Cause the game really isn't doing anything. The processor really doesn't have to think for the AI.

[starstreams 0]

Personally I would have preferred a better balance between graphics ...

Better is not the word. More like a complete overhaul.

I just picked up my copy yesterday. I'm sorry, are these graphics for real? The screenshots and videos online looked great, what happened? Everything seems to have this fake greenish tint, and not many options to adjust in the graphics settings menu. ArmA-II blows the doors off it.

There's no question that game play, and AI behavior is important, but what good is all that if you're playing a cartoon. I thought this project was all about being as real, and life like as possible. Hopefully an update can do something about these graphics, I don't see this game going anywhere anytime soon as it is now. People are worried about it not having a serial? I don't think anyone is going to be trying to copy this IMO.

On the other hand, I can appreciate how difficult it must be to develop a game of this complexity, and work around the many evolving technologies trying to find a happy balance. In this regard, and many others the developers have my deepest respect. Again, sorry for my negative feedback however, I'm just trying to be honest as what my first impression was.

Edited October 19, 2009 by starstreams

[Hans Ludwig 0]

Better is not the word. More like a complete overhaul.

I just picked up my copy yesterday. I'm sorry, are these graphics for real? The screenshots and videos online looked great, what happened? Everything seems to have this fake greenish tint, and not many options to adjust in the graphics settings menu. ArmA-II blows the doors off it.

There's no question that game play, and AI behavior is important, but what good is all that if you're playing a cartoon. I thought this project was all about being as real, and life like as possible. Hopefully an update can do something about these graphics, I don't see this game going anywhere anytime soon as it is now. People are worried about it not having a serial? I don't think anyone is going to be trying to copy this IMO. Again, sorry.

Out of all the threads and many post created about how much DR sucked balls, and you still bought it? Thanks for letting CM think that people really love this game since you and a lot of others bought it without doing any real research. All you did was enable publishers/developer to churn out more crap.

[stegman 3]

Hi all,

I posted my review on another thread but got shut down.

My own stupid fault for not checking the rest of the forum.

My reviews are here if you’re interested; http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=88649

Since writing it i have had a change of heart, a little.

DR isn't the same as Arma/ArmaII, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a good game.

You need to realize when playing it that it ISNT Arma. Its just an FPS with 'realistic' elements (guns and sounds, before you tear me apart, are supposed to be modelled on real life weapons).

apparently they took USMC weapons into the Nevada desert and recorded the sounds...while the Chinese wouldn’t let them have their guns :butbut:

No surprise when you consider they are made out to be the aggressors in this story line. ;)

Anyway, don’t think OFP2 is the same as OFP1.

If you liked CoD4, then you'll love OFP2, else stay with ArmaII

[jw custom 56]

Anyway, don’t think OFP2 is the same as OFP1.

If you liked CoD4, then you'll love OFP2, else stay with ArmaII

Really, it's called out as the sequel to the original and got the name "Operation Flashpoint" in it's title.... what are people supposed to think then?

[vilas 477]

Luhgnut;1466684']

furthermore' date=' the tree, BOUNCES back the A1M1. So not only absorbs the impact but, but pushes the tank backwards 10KPH, so...

it has a force pushing back of a higher value than the tank. So the tree would have the strength of 1.2748e+7 foot pounds.

[/quote']

as i told before, Codemasters are modern company which cares about our natural environment

and that's why trees are indestructible

BIS are bad, bad and no ecological, they use plastic (DVD is from plastic, not paper) and their forests have weak trees

so i think we should be gratefull for CM for showing us ecological problem of forests damaged by Abrams tanks

ΔΠO ΠANTOΣ KAKOΔΛIMONOΣ !

Edited October 19, 2009 by vilas

[Archamedes 10]

As i said in my earlier post you have to treat this as a completely seperate game from arma and operation flashpoint 1. simply because it has been changed so much, the problems i am seeing is people are seeing it as a sequel which i know yes it is and ironically in order to enjoy the game you MUST shut the door on arma and ofp1 before loading this game up. No comparing, or argueing they have ruined the command interface. Just close your eyes and say "this is a completely new game." It is the only way you can truly enjoy it, i'm sorry but it is. If they called it something else other than flashpoint the game would probably be a bit more successful. The graphics really do look nice and this is what CM are trying to win with but unfortunatly nowadays graphics don't mean shit if the gameplay doesn't hold up.

In short you can't polish a turd but codemasters did sprinkle glitter on it, so rather than buy the game and let the developers know they have made a successful sale download it for free lol. (actually no, that was meant as a joke, don't take that up as being serious.)

[maddogx 13]

DR isn't the same as Arma/ArmaII, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a good game.

That's absolutely true, but it's also the partly the cause of the friction between the Arma2 and DR communities. If you approach DR without any preconceptions it's a fair enough game. Of course, like most games nowadays, it has its share of problems and the story is a bit far-fetched but playing the campaign can still be fun.

There are two problems though:

1. The name Operation Flashpoint sets a pretty high bar in terms of oppenness and replayability which DR fails to clear. The game just doesn't live up to its name.

2. Originally the developers promised a truck load of advanced features, essentially placing DR as a direct competititor to Arma2. But for the last couple of months they have continuously backpedalled on the features list, removing pretty much everything that could have made the game unique, while still hyping the game as if it was cunt-flavored yoghurt.

From the perspective of the BIS community, this is extremely disappointing, hence the proclamations that the game "sucks". On the other hand, from the perspective of someone previously uninvolved with OFP or the Arma series, DR may be a pretty awesome game. The fact that both sides are approaching the game from completely different angles does nothing to stop the flamewars.

[jw custom 56]

As i said in my earlier post you have to treat this as a completely seperate game from arma and operation flashpoint 1. simply because it has been changed so much, the problems i am seeing is people are seeing it as a sequel which i know yes it is and ironically in order to enjoy the game you MUST shut the door on arma and ofp1 before loading this game up. No comparing, or argueing they have ruined the command interface. Just close your eyes and say "this is a completely new game." It is the only way you can truly enjoy it, i'm sorry but it is. If they called it something else other than flashpoint the game would probably be a bit more successful. The graphics really do look nice and this is what CM are trying to win with but unfortunatly nowadays graphics don't mean shit if the gameplay doesn't hold up.

I have tried to take DR as just another shooter(BF or COD which i enjoy), but even then i can't get myself to play it. The washed out graphic and the console feeling you get simply ruins everything.

Ohh one thing did work.... closing my eyes but that brings other problems :p

cunt-flavored yoghurt.

Thats the best kind of yoghurt :D

[dmarkwick 261]

hyping the game as if it was cunt-flavored yoghurt.

I think that's the best thing I've ever read :D

[stegman 3]

That's absolutely true, but it's also the partly the cause of the friction between the Arma2 and DR communities. If you approach DR without any preconceptions it's a fair enough game. Of course, like most games nowadays, it has its share of problems and the story is a bit far-fetched but playing the campaign can still be fun.

There are two problems though:

1. The name Operation Flashpoint sets a pretty high bar in terms of oppenness and replayability which DR fails to clear. The game just doesn't live up to its name.

2. Originally the developers promised a truck load of advanced features, essentially placing DR as a direct competititor to Arma2. But for the last couple of months they have continuously backpedalled on the features list, removing pretty much everything that could have made the game unique, while still hyping the game as if it was cunt-flavored yoghurt.

From the perspective of the BIS community, this is extremely disappointing, hence the proclamations that the game "sucks". On the other hand, from the perspective of someone previously uninvolved with OFP or the Arma series, DR may be a pretty awesome game. The fact that both sides are approaching the game from completely different angles does nothing to stop the flamewars.

Agreed. Fantastic coments too ;)