-=SARMAT=- Studio presents: WIP screenshots of the new project "Wings of Russia".

[MehMan 0]

What evidence?

---------- Post added at 03:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:14 PM ----------

If there is "strong evidence" then i would like to see it and then I will STFU. Until then these are just accusations that are not warranted in a WIP thread.

Their ArmA releases mostly.

The biggest beef I have with this one:

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=4997

The architecture pack they said from start was from stalker, it was said in the first readme with version 0.something, but in the next version I couldn't find the Stalker bit, just that it's a compliation of models from other games.

They aren't bad guys, this is in the architecture pack readme:

We do not claim for the authorship of modells, converted from other games and ask to take this correctly.

We don't wanted to glorified at the expense of others' work. We wanted to introduce some new and beautiful to ArmA.

We hope this objects will help you in creating of missions, campaigns, islands, videos and screen-arts.

they just need to keep the record straight all the time.

Edited July 20, 2009 by MehMan

[Dwarden 1124]

calm down ... just give the credits to correct people (i can understood mistakes may happen as i got tons of free made models and i lost theirs original credits too for example)

the question is only if you want steal the glory or just improve or use something great done by someone else ...

well written Credits will please everyone unless there are restrictions

(e.g. 'stuff' taken from some other game or paid project with ignoring IP restrictions and IP rights of the authors)

so secure that part and everyone will be happy

[Defunkt 431]

What evidence?

Possibly their track record extends back before Join Date: Jul 2009.

[spooky lynx 73]

USSRsniper, I mean it was always mentioned that this or that model is a port but not the one made from scratch by those guys:)

[manzilla 1]

It's seems more like skepticism then an accusation. Now whether this is an indirect accusation or not can really only be known be the man that stated it. Since he stated it wasn't, that's skepticism.

I'll wait until they release it to see if they have mentioned any credits, if it's warranted. Who knows, maybe it is ported and they give proper credit. As Bruce stated this is only the WIP thread.

[=SEALZ= REt. Bruce 10]

Like I said what evidence what proof of past models? I do not know Sarmat, just happy someone is putting stuff out there. Was it jsut accusations from before too? Leave the guy alone. Work on your own stuff Rock. Do not worry what everyoen else is doing. I will be checking on your models too, since you said they are 100% scratch from you. I am no fool and know how hard it is to make a model from scratch and then make it work in ARMA they way you want. Even porting stuff over gets tricky. I would rather have a ported mod that looks real then a developed mod that does not.

---------- Post added at 03:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:30 PM ----------

Thank you Manzilla...well said. Now if everyone else can man up and wait for the release.

[EMERY 10]

any way who gives a crud have a look at this mig give me give me!

Edited July 20, 2009 by EMERY
cant getpic link to work over it

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Work on your own stuff Rock. Do not worry what everyoen else is doing. I will be checking on your models too, since you said they are 100% scratch from you.

Fell free to "check" my stuff. You wont find my ArmA models anywhere else apart from VBS2.

I am no fool and know how hard it is to make a model from scratch and then make it work in ARMA they way you want. Even porting stuff over gets tricky. I would rather have a ported mod that looks real then a developed mod that does not.

Now there is a bit of implied mud slinging.

Some of us work quite hard to support the community, we don't just sit on the sideline slinging mud. But every member of the community has the right to speak up. And in the 8 years this community has been going, no addon theft has been regarded as acceptable by the majority. Ports are fine as long as they are done fairly and legally. But some people just don't see it that way do they.

But personally I'd rather make my own original stuff at my own pace slowly releasing content at a standard im happy with rather than use other people's content. Likewise I'd rather look, listen and decide for myself what is true and try not listen to other people's biased opinions before posting.

[Hvymtal 1251]

YES!!! AIRLINERS KICK BUTT! excuse me, i need to go :coop: some

---------- Post added at 10:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 PM ----------

Awesome guys, I'll be looking forward to this. It's clear we need some more OPFOR aircraft hope it goes well.

OPFOR? i was thinking "Airliners". and if there's going to be bombers I WANT A B52H!

[bogdanm 0]

Some of us work quite hard to support the community, we don't just sit on the sideline slinging mud.

I’m grateful that you make addons for the community to enjoy but throwing this in our face is just low… So what do you want now? Do you want us to build you a shrine, or take your words for granted and not argue about even though we don’t agree, as gratitude to your hard work?

I’m curious to see how you decide which users support the community and which not? Just give me some names and I’ll do the research myself.

Edited July 20, 2009 by BogdanM

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

I’m grateful that you make addons for the community to enjoy but throwing this in our face is just low…

Its low to "remind" someone that they arent contributing, just bitching?

So what do you want now? Do you want us to build you a shrine, or take your words for granted and not argue about even though we don’t agree, as gratitude to your hard work?

No mate, id be the first to tell you to tear it down. I'd rather you take the effort your shrine building would cost and put it towards something that benefits us all. Sharing your knowledge, helping on a community website or anything that actually does something to support the wider community.

I'm rather idealistic like that. I believe people should get credit for their work. But at the same time I believe any contribution is worthy of praise. Not just the work of a few.

I’m curious to see how you decide which users support the community and which not? Just give me some names and I’ll do the research myself.

My criteria is simple. Anyone that freely gives their time to improve and support the community. Anyone that spends thier time, money and skills to make content for free. That share what they've learned and those others that run the news sites, provide public servers at their own cost and so many other services.

And if i were to give you a list of names id surely miss most of the deserving off. It wouldn't be fair to them. I only know a few of their names.

Edited July 20, 2009 by RKSL-Rock

[Thunderbird 0]

RKSL-Rock,

I understand your point and there are no doubts about your contribution towards the community through these years, but your attitude is kind of childlish, doesn't matter whether you are right or not, doesn't matter whether you are a 'good' plane modeler or not.

The way you behave makes you sound silly, and truthfully, this is not the first time you act in a such manner.

Does this model belong to you? or maybe do you have a sort of 'Addons Police Professional Card' which makes you different from the rest of us? or the fact that you released a bunch of Addons previously gives you a higher rank than the rest of us?

Truthfully, people playing 'Addons Cops' are seriously hitting my nerves: What about this simple rule?

- If the author of the model in question doesn't show any sign against the release of the Model, then just let it be.

- If the author of the original model is against the use and the release of the Addon in question then just take out the link and disable any Media\Download link in order to make everyone happy.

- Obviously, Asking the author's permission is more than necessary.

People make no money from this stuff, if you are looking after some sort of 'glory' then just write below your 'Download Link' a little message mentioning in BOLD Char. that you did the whole thing from SCRATCH and be proud of it, I'm sure people won't miss it.

People may agree or disagree but this is my 2 cents.

Regards,

TB

Edited July 20, 2009 by Thunderbird

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

... but your attitude is kind of childlish, doesn't matter whether you are right or not, doesn't matter whether you are a 'good' plane modeler or not.

The way you behave makes you sound silly, and truthfully, this is not the first time you act in a such manner.

Coming from you that's more than a bit hypocritical. Your own approach to permissions has historically been a bit dubious. The first few incarnations of FFUR were almost totally sourced without proper credits of permissions. The fall out form that pissed off a lot of addon makers. Download a "new" mod to discover it contains parts of or whoel models that you did not "donate".

... Does this model belong to you? or maybe do you have a sort of 'Addons Police Professional Card' which makes you different from the rest of us? or the fact that you released a bunch of Addons previously gives you a higher rank than the rest of us?

I've already said several times in this thread. I don't expect any special privileges but authors should have their rights respected..

Truthfully, people playing 'Addons Cops' are seriously hitting my nerves

Truthfully people ignoring authors rights pisses me off too. The way that people just take your artwork and rehash it into their own mod without even asking or crediting the actual author... sound familiar?

I'm not alone in commenting about authors rights. There are lots of other people that are just as concerned too. Enough, that there is a project underway to help authors that want to protect their rights and its backed by the big community news sites so don't think its just me complaining.

What about this simple rule?

- If the author of the model in question doesn't show any sign against the release of the Model, then just let it be.

The fact that someone posts a "look at what we made" thread indicated the intent to release. Isn't it better to ask for clarification before it gets to release?

People make no money from this stuff,

Some of the original authors do. And converting their models to other platforms without consent is at the very least insulting and disrespectful. I don't see what is wrong with the old rules of:

"seek permission first"

"credit the original sources and authors"

They've been community rules for many years.

if you are looking after some sort of 'glory' then just write below your 'Download Link' a little message mentioning in BOLD Char. that you did the whole thing from SCRATCH and be proud of it, I'm sure people won't miss it.

I dont want glory, i never have. I just want people to respect addon makers work and right no matter where the material comes from. Is that really too much to ask?

[=SEALZ= REt. Bruce 10]

The fact that someone posts a "look at what we made" thread indicated the intent to release. Isn't it better to ask for clarification before it gets to release?

I dont want glory, i never have. I just want people to respect addon makers work and right no matter where the material comes from. Is that really too much to ask?

I can do the same thing to you that you do to everyone else and rip your thoughts apart sentence by sentence.

The point that is trying to be made here (since your simple mind does not comprehend logic) is that this is a WIP. Why can't you wait for a release then post your concerns if no credit is given. There is no place here for the "MOD Police". Take your socialist agenda elswhere. And stop trying to act smart by ripping everyone's comments apart sentence by sentnece...it makes you look like an egotistical SOB.

[mercenar1e 10]

I made an account on this website solely for the constant arguments between users in this thread, please as someone interested in "Wings of Russia" can you please stop as it is hard to track how far a long it is before release.

[Defunkt 431]

Truthfully, people playing 'Addons Cops' are seriously hitting my nerves: What about this simple rule?

- If the author of the model in question doesn't show any sign against the release of the Model, then just let it be.

So it's up to every author to patrol every game forum personally to make sure they get to veto unauthorised use of their work or, as has been suggested by RKSL-Rock (perfectly reasonably given SARMAT's apparent track record), should this audience expect credits and any applicable permissions be spelled out up front? One possibility defines a community that respects the tremendous amount of work involved in creating these assets and the other is decidedly greedy, grabbing and unworthy. Honestly!

[mercenar1e 10]

oh and while im in here, Rock, i saw your youtube channel, sweet F35B. ETA?

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

I can do the same thing to you that you do to everyone else and rip your thoughts apart sentence by sentence.

You can try but you arent very good at it :)

The point that is trying to be made here (since your simple mind does not comprehend logic) is that this is a WIP. Why can't you wait for a release then post your concerns if no credit is given. There is no place here for the "MOD Police".

You see its not just me that sees the logic of what i am saying and fails to understand yours:

So it's up to every author to patrol every game forum personally to make sure they get to veto unauthorised use of their work or, as has been suggested by RKSL-Rock (perfectly reasonably given SARMAT's apparent track record), should this audience expect credits and any applicable permissions be spelled out up front? One possibility defines a community that respects the tremendous amount of work involved in creating these assets and the other is decidedly greedy, grabbing and unworthy. Honestly!

Someone else sees it too.

What i don't get is why you cant see that this benefits the community? All it does is deter the more unscrupulous people that prefer to steal content and post it as their own.

If genuine addons makers that carry out ports (with full permission) or make original content don't feel that their efforts will be respected they wont mod for the game. All you will have is a load of old low res rehashed or un optimised addons sourced from older games.

Take your socialist agenda elswhere. And stop trying to act smart by ripping everyone's comments apart sentence by sentnece...it makes you look like an egotistical SOB.

If wanting people to get credit for their own work is socialist then: "Viva La Revolution". Better that than have people stealing.

And you may think im an egotist, but at least I am being a public spirited egotist. :bounce3:

oh and while im in here, Rock, i saw your youtube channel, sweet F35B. ETA?

Thats probably best left to another thread

Edited July 21, 2009 by RKSL-Rock

[=SEALZ= REt. Bruce 10]

Defunkt,

The answer to your question is YES. It is up to the developer of said mod to prove that it is their mod if they feel it has been stolen. It is not your job to tell everyone to prove that it is theirs. There is a thing called a law suit. You can use a law suit if someone steals your stuff without permission. DO NOT TRY to act like the ARMA Gods.

To make the point even more simply, WIP stands for work in progress. SO this isn't even released yet and individuals feel it is there job to police everything. If you are so upset with people stealing mods blah, blah, blah...go to court, then things won't have to be so retarded as it is here.

No one except the developer of the mod knows if something is stolen or not. So back off.

STOP THE INSANITY

[Defunkt 431]

You're clearly too selfish and stupid to realise that what you're suggesting will spell the end of all decent user-content. The good developers like RKSL and whoever made these aircraft (which may or may not be SARMAT, pity they didn't just say) will give up being ripped-off.

[=SEALZ= REt. Bruce 10]

You can try but you arent very good at it :)

I am better at it then you.:rolleyes:

You see its not just me that sees the logic of what i am saying and fails to understand yours: Someone else sees it too.

Oh I'm sorry you have a couple of people in here that agree with you. The majority of people who do download and use mods could care less who did what. You as a modder (and those that agree with you) are not Gods.

What i don't get is why you cant see that this benefits the community? All it does is deter the more unscrupulous people that prefer to steal content and post it as their own.

All it does is keep people from wanting to do things for the community. If you want to mod then mod, get out of the policing business, you do not have the intelligence for it.

If genuine addons makers that carry out ports (with full permission) or make original content don't feel that their efforts will be respected they wont mod for the game. All you will have is a load of old low res rehashed or un optimised addons sourced from older games.

What you fail to see is that if you keep trying to control what is released, then the appearance is that you want a foothold on all mods you are working on.

If wanting people to get credit for their own work is socialist then: "Viva La Revolution". Better that than have people stealing.

Consider the revolution started. You are not the law maker around here. If someone gets a port from a freeware/shareware and the original author says do not worry about giving me credit..whats yur business with forcing the issue?

And you may think im an egotist, but at least I am being a public spirited egotist. :bounce3;

Well at least we all know where you stand.

[adumb 0]

I back what Rock said 110%

[=SEALZ= REt. Bruce 10]

Defunkt,

So what are the rules for posting a WIP? Must credit be giving right here and now? If the rules for posting a WIP does not say to give credit, just give credit when it is released then wait for the release and STFU.

---------- Post added at 08:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:33 PM ----------

I back what Rock said 110%

I guess your name says it all!!!

---------- Post added at 08:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:35 PM ----------

I guess when you have a ROCK for a brain, you become deliriously Defunkt at anything you do, and wonder why people think you are Adumb.

[adumb 0]

I guess your name says it all!!!

oh noes someone calling me out for my internet nickname, u mad brah?

[Planck 1]

An author of any content that is using work from another author is expected to get permission from and give credit to the originating author, whether it is a release or just a WIP notification, otherwise messy threads like this one is the result.

I do note that the OP has never replied to the question as to whether permission was granted from any original authors or whether the work is their own.

Unless people want this topic locked, I suggest they refrain from posting anything remotely off-topic and wait to see if the OP replies..........or not.

Planck