Stance indicator

[ProfTournesol 956]

I'm not sure how it's difficult to see whether you're crouched or not. I thought it's obvious the way you're closer to the ground, you see more of your weapon and you somehow managed to get to crouch position in the first place.

Well, not difficult, but not immediate :)

[galzohar 31]

People constantly run crouched and wonder why I run faster than them. Facts speak for themselves. This would not have happened in real life in any way whatsoever.

[trips 10]

People constantly run crouched and wonder why I run faster than them. Facts speak for themselves. This would not have happened in real life in any way whatsoever.

This. Nothing anyone's posted against the idea has spoken to this directly.

Am I the only one with walk/run problems?

[galzohar 31]

I personally don't (often) run into this issue because I tend to remember my stance, but fact is people keep doing it which is anything but realistic.

[Fanatic72 181]

this is just noobish...never happened to me to not know my actual stance. And with ACE2 i dont know my bullet count...only thing which i need to have on HUD is weapon mode and would be nice to have an exception for that bullet count so i would know how many nades i have. But thats not a big deal...i can always press G. ONLY thing which i really agree with is some kind of "wounds indicator" so I wouldnt have to run to our clan medic and ask him to check me if Im alright. :D

[-=seany=- 5]

I think it would be ok, I can't see myself using it. I know mostly what stance I'm in and I use trackIR so its much easier to just look.

I do have a problem (as mentioned by some already) with the game randomly changing my stance for me, which I guess is another bug. It seems to happen mostly with gradients over a certain angle. E.g. I'm in the standing position whilst running up a hill and then I notice I'm all of a sudden in the crouched position.

I also don't like having to "uncrouch" after I have looked at the map. If you think about it, it makes no sense. If its for realism then shouldn't I also have to enter the crouch position before I can open the map? And if he (my avatar) can crouch automatically whilst I open the map then how come he cant automatically stand when I close it? See the lunacy of this "feature"? Lets get rid of all "auto stance" and just keep the players chosen stance at all times include during map usage..

Edited August 28, 2010 by -=seany=-

[rexehuk 16]

This needs to be implemented as a DIFFICULTY config and not made default, this will kill realism for groups that enjoy it. I for one would have this forced off on our servers :p.

[galzohar 31]

If you can take the time to and actually think about looking around with trackIR (not to mention if you have the time to use normal freelook), then you might as well just hit the "stand up" or "crouch" key. The problem is people not realizing they are in crouch mode until they've ran a mile (and if it's ACE they start blacking out) or once people start running past them. Of course if you're aware enough of the issue to constantly verify your stance it won't really be an issue for you, same for me, but it really shouldn't be like that. Knowing what stance you're in 100% of the time should not be down to practice and knowledge of the game. Heck they could also just give you a simple menu option to disable it if it really hurts you in the eyes.

Same goes for wound indicator and stamina bar. Sure there are some visual and audio cues but overall they're anything but enough to actually provide you with the information you would've naturally had IRL.

This is not anything similar to the true realism killers such as crosshairs, 3rd person and map marks.

[enad 11]

IRL when I'm crouching of course I know it but in the game it's not always clear. We should have an icon of our character that shows the stance we are in. Of course we could turn this on/off in the options.

Or you could go into 3rd person for a second... :rolleyes:

[xxbbcc 6]

+1 for stance indicator

+1 for body injury indicator

These are things that one would simply feel without the need of any other action. They should be part of the HUD.

[Inkompetent 0]

Or you could go into 3rd person for a second... :rolleyes:

Assuming the one *can* go into third person ;)

[trips 10]

This thread is like screaming at a wall.

Edit: To make it less intrusive how about we have it fade in when you're stationary and fade out again when you start to move

Edited August 28, 2010 by Trips

[NoRailgunner 0]

Simple - Armaverse isnt part of the average shooter space aka fluffy arcade gameplay, controls and HUDs.

Maybe you should train a bit more and get used to it instead of relying upon unrealistic + consolish icons, signs and indicators.

[Deadfast 43]

Maybe you should limit yourself to one troll attempt per thread NoRailgunner?

I might look into a non-intrusive stance indicator addon if there is any interest?

[ProfTournesol 956]

Simple - Armaverse isnt part of the average shooter space aka fluffy arcade gameplay, controls and HUDs.

Maybe you should train a bit more and get used to it instead of relying upon unrealistic + consolish icons, signs and indicators.

Please, don't overdue it : it isn't realistic at all to look at oneself or to use external view to know if i'm crouching or if i'm standing up. Nothing to do with consolish things, just a matter of increasing situational behaviour with video games tricks.

[rübe 127]

While I don't personally see the need for a stance indicator (probably because I like to play in the outside/3d-perspective), I'd really welcome an injury indicator, because most of the time I have absolutely no idea where I'm injured - if at all, because it could only be the adrinaline/stamina thingy that makes me shakey.. I never know. And that's a problem.

Seeing that this could be well combined (stance indicator and injury indicator), I'm all for it. We have a damage indicator (aswell as a stance indicator if you count the radar which indicates in which direction the turret is pointing at) for vehicles already, so this is not much different to a unit and his damage/stance. Except for the fact that the unit really should know if and where he is damaged (and how he is standing), while this is a lot more vague for a vehicle and it's status.

[DaSquade 0]

Although i'm also for 'less is more' (realistic), i also vote for a subtile stance indicator. Like some mentioned, sometimes it isn't that clear (example: when you are on rocks, under heavy fire after running etc...). In RL you would know it, ingame it isn't always 100% clear.

There are other indicators enough by default that shouldn't be there (ammo counter, damage to vehicles, etc...).

Hint: I suppose someone could make a small script for that feature, no expert but i'm sure it is possible to check players stance and have an UI icon placed on the screen.

[NoRailgunner 0]

If people are not familiar with controls, gameplay etc - they can:

A) get used to it (practice makes perfect...)

B) moan about everything thats not comfortable for their own handling

Where is the real problem?

Exactly when do those people have difficulties? Only while standing, while crouching or if they are walking/running?

Should the soldiers only be a bit taller = raising the head/eyeview position?

Or are some people not able to remind themselves which key(s) they pressed?

Would it be better + clearer if only animations where improved and different?

Imho the game should not move towards mainstream/casual game design but keep the soul and the spirit of a simulation. Its always easier to make a indicator/icon, though.

[Inkompetent 0]

Imho the game should not move towards mainstream/casual game design but keep the soul and the spirit of a simulation. Its always easier to make a indicator/icon, though.

Or maybe ArmA has something to learn from the 'mainstream' stuff as far as user-friendlyness goes?

It's hardly game-breaking, and that kind of cues do serve a purpose (just like a cue for grenade throwing-power and what body part is wounded, since only badly injured legs or injured arms are apparant to the player) since it is stuff we should know without having to guess or look at ourselves.

Most of the time one can easily know if one is standing or not. Not 100% of the time however.

[dmarkwick 261]

If people are not familiar with controls, gameplay etc - they can:

A) get used to it (practice makes perfect...)

B) moan about everything thats not comfortable for their own handling

Where is the real problem?

Exactly when do those people have difficulties? Only while standing, while crouching or if they are walking/running?

Should the soldiers only be a bit taller = raising the head/eyeview position?

Or are some people not able to remind themselves which key(s) they pressed?

Would it be better + clearer if only animations where improved and different?

Imho the game should not move towards mainstream/casual game design but keep the soul and the spirit of a simulation. Its always easier to make a indicator/icon, though.

Well, if I can pitch in :)

If you insist that ArmA2 is a simulator (I wouldn't, but I'll go with your notion) then you have to think about what it is you're simulating. Taking everything away but giving nothing back in the way of situational awareness is simply... taking stuff away.

I'm not always sure about what stance I'm in, and often I need to know without experimenting & giving my position away. I might be in thick vegetation, on a steep slope, around large/small scale vegetation etc. IRL I always know what stance I'm in, I don't have an icon in my view, but then I'm also not looking at the world out of one eye (my monitor is 2D), I don't have a cardboard box over my head with a hole in the front (like the view my monitor allows me), and I don't have some muslin gauze over my eyes (to reduce real-life resolution to similar limits that my monitor allows). I also don't use a mouse to move about etc. Anyway, you get the point.

Stuff has to be simulated where it is not "real" yes? That includes the stuff that you don't have ingame that you do have IRL, like stance knowledge (that doesn't rely on suddenly looking all around the place) and injury knowledge (that doesn't involve going to 3rd person and looking at your textures). If my leg was injured I would surely know about it through pain, as ArmA2 doesn't give me (much ;)) pain I need some other indication to simulate it.

If ArmA2 is to be a simulator, then it needs to simulate anything that has been taken away from me for the privilege of being able to play soldier from a chair in a house.

[nkenny 1057]

I disagree with the need for additional hud elements -- subtle or not.

I'd rather have better in game animations, and sound effects to illustrate what is happening. Already its very easy to judge your current stance by how the camera moves and what speed you move at -- and if you get shot in the arm you hear that terrible english "fuck my arm"--or whatever.

Also. Getting shot is not like stubbing a toe. Sheer adrenaline combined with shock will mask much of the initial pain of an injury. This is nicely illustrated by how you need to 'test' your body to identify the full extent of your wounds.

It'd be better to introduce more and varied hit-effects and a whole host of new animations -- such as limping -- to create more visceral--immersive experience of being wounded.

-k

[xxbbcc 6]

I might look into a non-intrusive stance indicator addon if there is any interest?

If you have the time / know-how, then yes, please do.

[NoRailgunner 0]

DMarkwick guess with the possibilities that BIS have there is a way to make the stance positions and injuries even more recognizable without adding indicators/signs. I'm sure most people prefer to see+hear natural/believable acting of their ingame character instead of watching fancy status icons. ;)

[DaSquade 0]

@Deadfast: Not sure if you are still interested in making this 'stance-indicator' mod, but if it might help you i made some quick stance icons:

-> _caa.tga versions (512x256): _caa.tga versions (512x256)

Due to the prone stance i had to make it 512x256, but not sure if all icons needs a uniform size. Not familiar with UI icons etc...Let me know if interested or you need adjustments.

*Maybe for those who are against it, maybe the script can have a 'check difficulty mode', so the icons don't work in veteran mode or something like that.

Edited August 29, 2010 by DaSquade

[Deadfast 43]

EDIT: On a second thought, let's move this over to the addons discussion...

Edited August 29, 2010 by Deadfast