The Corpsman is a Sailor, not a Marine

[That guy 10]

must we have this pointless corpsmen discussion again?

[mercenarynox 10]

Small detail that needs to be recognized. A sailor uses Navy ranks rather than Marine ranks, therefore the corpsman should be reflected respectedly.

Keep in mind, to declare one real life Corpsman to be a Marine, or a Marine to work for the Navy (which they infact do :p) is considered an insult and may result in.... unpleasantness.

In Iwo Jima, if a Marine was hit, he'd yell "Corpsman!" for a medic.

And I didn't hear anyone complain about the medics beating their ass. Maybe times have changed, either way, doesn't seem like a big deal.

[Apocal 10]

I believe so. This game does not follow the Marine ranking system very well if it even tries to.

Notice the team leader pic has the rank of Sergeant and the squad leader rank is Ssgt. I recall the "ideal" ranks being one lower and the practical system often leading to Corporals leading squads and sections. It was a little bit eye-opening to me to see a corporal leading a section of 19 men in three different squads. I was a full paygrade higher and the assist leader of 6 people.

IRL I recall reading some award citation to "Corporal So-and-so while serving as Platoon Sergeant of such and such...", exceptional certainly, yet illustrative of how much trust the USMC has in it's NCOs.

BTW, "corpse-man" GODDAMMIT BOHEMIA! (shaking my fist)

[frederf 0]

More like "how few experienced NCOs the USMC actually has."

[Shinobi575 10]

pointless thread, Congrats!

---------- Post added at 05:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:48 AM ----------

Same here, I just can't handle this corpsman fiasco. The bugs, the performance issues, all that is just small stuff, but bloody hell, corpsman, I've just had it, I'm going to uninstall now.

lol haha

[hoak 0]

Odd, this same topic got going on some other forum, though it got a bit more out of hand here which is weird. I don't want to pick nits, or step on toes, but while Marine Fleet Corpsman are technically Navy personal, they are trained as, and considered U.S. Marines when deployed. I belive currently its seven weeks of infantry training and usually an advanced infantry school of a couple more months...

Just how this is done depends on when you were on the Corps, and/or Navy; I believe they used to go through the very same Boot Camp and Advanced Infantry Schools with the rest of the Marine Corps; now I think it's a little more specialized but is still run by the U.S.M.C.. There are also U.S. Marines that become Navy Medical Corpsmen to in turn become Marine Fleet Corpsman -- though it's not a conventional career path via U.S.M.C. MOS...

Bottom line, when deployed, a Marine Fleet Corpsman is considered a U.S. Marine and Rifleman foremost -- he is also decorated and promoted like a Marine in the field... I just did a little webby search too to see if there's anything about this on any of the inter-service recruiting sites and found this...

Edited July 19, 2009 by Hoak

[Apocal 10]

Just how this is done depends on when you were on the Corps, and/or Navy; I believe they used to go through the very same Boot Camp and Advanced Infantry Schools with the rest of the Marine Corps; now I think it's a little more specialized but is still run by the U.S.M.C.

They attend the same boot camp as all sailors, in Great Lakes, IL, which is also the site of HM "A" School, initial training for all corpsmen. FMSS comes after and it's not MCT or SOI.

There are also U.S. Marines that become Navy Medical Corpsmen to in turn become Marine Fleet Corpsman -- though it's not a conventional career path via U.S.M.C. MOS...

Perhaps because they left the USMC and joined the USN. AFAIK, the only way for a Marine to get into military medicine is to be accepted for a medical commission (the name of the program escapes me right now) and they are commissioned as naval officers, not Marines.

I just did a little webby search too to see if there's anything about this on any of the inter-service recruiting sites and found this...

That school is for HM's either coming from A-school or transitioning from a fleet billet to a field billet. It says nothing about an inter-service transfer, which, AFAIK, are only available to commissioned officers. Otherwise, you have to finish your hitch then join the other service (with a few exceptions).

Now you can all revel in the piping hot plate of fail that is the seven minutes I spent reading the link and seriously replying in this thread.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Apocal

[hoak 0]

Plate of Fail? Seven minutes? What an emotional life achivement for you! Cool your jets TrollBoy, I qualified everything I said so it's hardly like I'm making the blanket statements you are that could be regarded as 'fail' were there an exception.

The point of my post stands: a Marine Fleet Corpsman is considered a U.S. Marine and Rifleman when deployed; and is decorated and promoted like a Marine in the field... And that is the context of an ArmA II Corpsman...

:rolleyes:

Edited July 19, 2009 by Hoak

[iantis 10]

The marines are a department of the navy in name only. The high command of the navy has no authority over the marines, making it a desuire(pardon the french spelling) command structure only.

Hmm, by "desuire" do you mean "de jure"? Also, that would be Latin, friend, not French.

[Andi 10]

Marines (from the English adjective marine, meaning of the sea, from Latin marinus ("maritime"), via French marin(e), of the sea) are military forces optimised for operations at sea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_(military)

So they're sailor warriors. End of discussion.

:D

Edited July 20, 2009 by Andi

[Apocal 10]

I qualified everything I said

Hardly.

1. At no point in time was basic training for Hospital Corpsmen conducted by Marines. They went through the same recruit training as sailors and all their basic medical training was taught by other Corpsmen. The only way for that to be confused was the old sea story about recruits from RTC San Diego going AWOL by hoping the fence and landing in an MCRD San Diego training area.

2. There is no such thing as an inter-service transfer for enlisted members. The closest thing was a few years back for USN/USAF going to the Army and everyone I saw go that route finished their hitch, then joined. If you'd like to pour over all the relevant instructions, guidances and policies, I'd be more than willing to point them out for you. FWIW, I know two corpsmen who joined the Marines after they were out of the Navy. They aren't corpsmen anymore.

and is decorated and promoted like a Marine in the field

http://www.marines.mil/units/marforcom/iimef/2ndmlg/Pages/OIFactionsearncorpsmancombatpromotion.aspx

A sailor from 2nd Medical Battalion, Combat Logistics Regiment 25, 2nd Marine Logistics Group, received a combat meritorious promotion to the rank of petty officer first class, Dec. 17, for actions in Iraq from March 29 to April 28.

...sailor...

...petty officer first class...

http://hamptonroads.com/node/183561

On Thursday, during a ceremony at Portsmouth Naval Medical Center, Seamon was given a rare combat promotion to petty officer second class, Pay Grade E-5.

Decorations are the same across the sea services, but where do you get the idea that promotions are?

[hoak 0]

1. At no point in time was basic training for Hospital Corpsmen conducted by Marines.

I never meant that it was, Sailors did at one point go through Marine Basic after they finished their Navy Recruit Rraining/Boot Camp, and Medical Training -- but I grant this is based on hearsay over 30 years old...

2. There is no such thing as an inter-service transfer for enlisted members.

I never said there was...

Decorations are the same across the sea services, but where do you get the idea that promotions are?

Deployed as a Marine, Corpsman can be field promoted in battle, as a Marine...

:rolleyes:

[Vandrel 10]

I never meant that it was, Sailors did at one point go through Marine Basic after they finished their Navy Recruit Rraining/Boot Camp, and Medical Training -- but I grant this is based on hearsay over 30 years old...

I never said there was...

Deployed as a Marine, Corpsman can be field promoted in battle, as a Marine...

:rolleyes:

The ceremonial portion for awarding would be the same, yes, in terms that we all get in formation and the "personnel to be promoted" marches front and center to get pinned on, however, the proceedures for being selected are not the same and not even in a combat situation.

Simple answer, Navy takes test for promotion, Marines have scores and selection boards. Simple as that.

Now to put this thread to rest so there is no more questions or issues...

Corpsman are Navy no matter how you look at it, they can if they decide to go what is called FMF and get their pin essentially switching them over to "Marine Regs" which is where the Corpsman then has to abide by Marine regulations for uniforms, grooming, height/weight, annual training, etc. This does NOT mean the Corpsman is concidered a "rifleman".

Corpsman no matter how you look at it are NON-COMBATANTS, they are not even issued rifles and are not allowed to carry them. They are only issued pistols and are only authorized to unholster their personal weapons for self defence or in direct defence of a patient. There is often confusion on this matter because you see Corpsman wearing Marine digital cammies, that is due to the Corpsman being what is called "green-side" in direct support of a fleet unit, blue-side is where they do not wear Marine cammies and work in places such as Naval Hospitals, ships, etc.

Furthermore, I'd like to add that in my deployment to Ramadi last year Corpsman were not even authorized to stand post! So to add to the discussion, currently in real world areas it is a violation of regs to have your Corpsman standing post, weather it be in a COC manning the radios or cameras for a few hours or sitting in a guard towner manning a crew-served weapon.

End of story

I see there are a few on here that are very spun up on this and are either in the Navy, Marines or were at one time. Those that are not please for the love of god stop beating the dead horse here.

Edited July 23, 2009 by Vandrel

[charliereddog 9]

Interesting regarding the issuing of weapons. In the book Generation Kill, there is at least 1 picture of the unit's "doc" carrying a weapon, a 203 if I recall correctly, but it goes into some detail as to the fact the corpsman in question is Navy not marine personnel. Is this something that may have changed since the start of the Iraq conflict?

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

I feel a bit like killing myself after reading this thread...

[Vandrel 10]

Interesting regarding the issuing of weapons. In the book Generation Kill, there is at least 1 picture of the unit's "doc" carrying a weapon, a 203 if I recall correctly, but it goes into some detail as to the fact the corpsman in question is Navy not marine personnel. Is this something that may have changed since the start of the Iraq conflict?

Depending on the time frame of that picture makes a huge difference, in 2003 we didn't give a damn, I had my Doc driving my vehicles and sitting in my turret when we rotated turret watch. It was a different ball game where you had non-stop moving with no sleep and little options for crew rotations to ensure drivers were not falling asleep in the middle of operations.

Now to go further indepth on that, if he had a 203 it was in no way his T/O weapon. By T/O Corpsman are only to be issued a M9 and that's it. That is not to say that he wasn't holding his Platoon Sgt's weapon who didn't want to carry it but back in 2003 and prior Marines were only issued 1 weapon, either a M9 for Corpsman, SNCO's and Officers or a rifle to all NCO's and below unless filling a SNCO billet (ie: Section Leader, Squad Leader, Plt Sgt, etc)

Hope that answers your question

[djdel002 10]

To clear this all up, and to show some facts, here is a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpsman

And one on the USMC specifying this particular subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps#United_States_Navy

"Marines do not recruit or train noncombatants such as chaplains or medical/dental personnel; naval personnel fill these roles."

Go, be educated, and know that all Corpsman are NOT Marines, and are in fact, Sailors.

I know it's already been answered, but yes Corpsman are Sailors.

[Red_Barron 0]

Small detail that needs to be recognized. A sailor uses Navy ranks rather than Marine ranks, therefore the corpsman should be reflected respectedly.

Keep in mind, to declare one real life Corpsman to be a Marine, or a Marine to work for the Navy (which they infact do :p) is considered an insult and may result in.... unpleasantness.

This thread makes me want to die a little inside too..... :confused:

The Corpsman is a Sailor or Marine issue is rather irrelevant considering the OP's first paragraph is complaining about the ranks. If you are talking about what I think you are talking about, as mentioned before the "rank" option, selectable in the window that pops up when you place or edit the configuration of a unit in the editor, is a loose abstraction not based on any particular armed forces from any particular country. It is, however, based loosely on ranks that are generally present in any and all armed forces. You will note that the ranks are the same no matter what the unit's side or faction is, be it BLUFOR Marine/CDF, OPFOR Russian/Insurgent, or even civilian. To say the Corpsman model needs a distinct rank (which has no other tangible use than to determine who is senior within a given group) is ludicrous.

Now if we are talking about the third selectable option down from the top left of a unit window, if I'm not mistaken BLUFOR Marine's (or is it US?) have options for regular Marines, Force Recon, and Navy personnel (or whatever all the units designed to stand around on an LHD are called). In this instance one could say that since there is a Navy subgroup they should be put in there. Once again it would make more sense to not do that since these Corpsman are intended to go out with Marines on missions, and are indeed attached to Marine units. While they are not Marines, they work with them in an operational sense, and therefor it makes more sense to group them with the rest of the Marines than to put them with the (non-combatant) Navy subgroup (I say non-combative because they have no weapons by default if I remember correctly).

So all in all, regardless of the conversation of whether Corpsman are Marines/Navy and attached to or integral, the original complaint is unnecessary since the ranking system is abstract with the sole purpose of determining seniority within groups.

[novafluxx 10]

Navy Corpmen serve in Marine units as their medics. The Marines has Doctors (Officers), but no enlisted medical personal.

[hund 0]

Hells, if the corpsmen are getting their own ranks, the russians should too! :D

[ScorpionGuard 10]

Well done. I have pointed this out before. Oh yes. I was one of the ones in the original thread about the Corpsman (Navy) Rank vs. The Marine Rank structure. The issue is about realism. Plain and simple. If you claim that your product is built on realism. It batter fit the bill. A lot of players didn't care due to them not being in a or around the Military.

The issue of other nations having the same or equal ranking system. Your right. When it come to Armies. Not Marines or Navies. Not all countries have Marines or Navies. But I know that it's a waste of time giving facts. People will believe what they wish to believe.

[-Total- 0]

Former EW who is a plankowner on the first LHD (USS Wasp LHD-1) and a plankowner on a CVN (USS George Washington CVN-73). Yeah, I got assigned to TWO "gotta keep em clean!"

OT though, the Corpsmen IS a Navy billet, not a Marine. I had to go inland with Marines as a laison and, although it wasn't one from our ship, their Corpsman was in the Navy. Generally though, he was never referred to by rank (ie Petty Officer 2nd Class). He was just called Corpsman. It kept it simple.

Of course, we all know that the Marine's paycheck says Department Of The Navy on it anayway, so it's no real surprise :D

[Cellus 10]

Former EW who is a plankowner on the first LHD (USS Wasp LHD-1) and a plankowner on a CVN (USS George Washington CVN-73). Yeah, I got assigned to TWO "gotta keep em clean!"

OT though, the Corpsmen IS a Navy billet, not a Marine. I had to go inland with Marines as a laison and, although it wasn't one from our ship, their Corpsman was in the Navy. Generally though, he was never referred to by rank (ie Petty Officer 2nd Class). He was just called Corpsman. It kept it simple.

Was his reply to that along the lines "OMGWTF N00B is so not realistic!!11! /ragequit"

[Vandrel 10]

He was just called Corpsman. It kept it simple.

Of course, we all know that the Marine's paycheck says Department Of The Navy on it anayway, so it's no real surprise :D

We always just call em "Doc"

And my paychecks used to DFAS Kansas City :D

[USSRsniper 0]

So what? Who cares? They got Marine Corpsman in VBS and the Marines are not complaining :p 1000 dollar software that can't even get the ranks correctly :D Navy Corpsman should sue BIA for insulting them...

Edited July 24, 2009 by USSRsniper