Cheating AI from ArmA1 is back?

[metalcraze 290]

One of the things I hated about ArmA1 is a cheating AI pumped up to the other extreme compared to OFP. Whereas in OFP it was blind and deaf in ArmA1 it could see you through walls, grass and trees and had a superhuman reaction.

So I decided to give the AI in ArmA2 my favorite test.

At one mission I was moving through the village when I saw the tank far away moving down the road. I ran behind two buildings near the road and tried to ambush the tank. It moved only some 5 meters past me with the crew turned out not noticing me. I ran behind it with RPG and put a missile in its back. At the exactly same moment tank crew turned in (without dying like they should've) and I immediately got mowed down by the bullets from the tanks turret turned to me that very moment.

Reload.

Tank passed me by - I put a missile in its back again - then quickly got behind the house, reloaded RPG and decided to attack the tank from the other side of the house - as soon as I got my head sticking out I received a bunch of bullets with a sniper precision from the tank.

Reload.

Again when the tank passed me by I put a missile in its back and decided to hide behind the trees - note that I couldn't see the tank and there was no visual contact between me and it. However for some reason tank immediately killed me through the trees though in no way it could've seen me.

After god knows how many tries I managed to destroy the tank only by quickly killing the commander and gunner while they were turned out and finishing now harmless tank with missiles.

No matter the distance, no matter the cover the enemy crew learns my exact position down to 1mm the same very moment as I hit the tank - otherwise I can dance around it with little effect. And continues to track me even when I hide from it with no possible line of sight. I had another such moment when I was deep inside the forest and enemy bmp was 200 meters away from me in the field. The very moment I hit it all AIs nearby knew my exact position. I miss how it was in OFP where the AI took time to search for the player at the side the shot came from.

Now add to this that while grass is obscuring your view - it doesn't give such problem to an AI. The same with trees. I can hardly notice AIs in the grass, while they never have such problems.

Another related problem is a lack of muzzle flashes. Quite a number of times I got killed by an AI hidden like 50 meters away in the grass because I couldn't see who's firing and from exactly where. Even in the evening where fire from the gun barrel should be very noticeable. And when I fire my gun the flash from it is very faint which is strange for such an amount of fire coming from the barrel.

And another thing I don't like is that missiles don't left craters in the earth (they did in OFP) so you never know where exactly the missile hit.

Will these problems get any attention and love by the BIS?

Edited June 2, 2009 by metalcraze

[Shadowclaw 10]

One thing i noticed was when your down in the grass you can't see anything because the grass blocks your sight. This doesn't seem to be for the AI. It can clearly see and shoot you as it seems

[mr.g-c 6]

Yes the cheating AI is back....

Some tickets from me (more about AI to come):

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/1701

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/1704

[Raggz 10]

AI definatly cheat.

[Hotk3y 10]

I could sign your post in every sentence. Would have made a similar one if you didnt made it allready.

I also tried a bit with the editor, i covered behind a truck, half hidden by a wheel and attaked a group of soldiers far away, hardle seen by me.

As soon as my shot was fired they went to prone (which is ok), but then turned the same moment, shooted and hit me. So they see me, lying in the grass and covered near fully behind the trucks wheel. "A®mazing 2"

This is the most annoying bug (among many many many) so far, hopefully it get's fixed soon.

Besides: This Bug Report was brought to you (Bis - Developer) by me (Customer) at no charge!

[PRiME 1]

The AI uses suppressing fire so don't get it mixed up with that. Basically the AI will shoot in the approx last seen location you were in or there about.

But I have seen AI shoot me at a instant (urber accuracy at 1.0?) or spot me when I thought they shouldn't have been able too because of my distance or behind a bush.

[Hotk3y 10]

The AI uses suppressing fire so don't get it mixed up with that. Basically the AI will shoot in the approx last seen location you were in or there about.

But I have seen AI shoot me at a instant (urber accuracy at 1.0?) or spot me when I thought they shouldn't have been able too because of my distance or behind a bush.

No, the group looked in the opposite direction when my shot was fired...

[kingnl 0]

Have you guys tried to lower the skills of the soldiers? You can do that in the options screen, difficulty settings. Try to lower the skills somewhere between 0.3 - 0.6. Check if you see any differences.

[bangtail 0]

Same with Satchels AGAIN. I really like ArmA 2 but the fact that these things havent been fixed is pretty weak IMHO.

I plant a satchel, I move to a safe location, I detonate it and the AI immediately knows where I am.

At least with a rocket, they could conceivably follow the smoke trail, but probably not so much as they could "headshot" you immediately.

ArmA 2 really reminds me of OFP and I am loving it but some of the bugs are seriously immersion breaking.

Eth

[sabre4809 0]

@metalcraze

You say this happens arma1? Was it on release, before 1.08 parch? I just checked that exact scenario and, they would search only, and if I made myself visible and they see me they watch that area for awhile then search and if I go ALL the way round to the back, they still searching. Thats with 'move' and 'safe'.

With 'search and destroy' and 'aware' or 'combat' they are mobile, and search, but at no point seem to 'know' where I am, only have suspicions and search where they saw me go. i.e behind the house that I went first is where they search, and its different if I go somewhere different.

I hope it isn't like that in ARMA 2 cause that sounds a bit irritating.

@ethne, also, don't see that in ARMA 1. They (3 other t72s) search around where IT went off quite alot actually, and don't look at me, who is 200 meters down the runway behind them.

ALL AI at max skill.

Edited June 4, 2009 by SAbre4809

[bangtail 0]

@metalcraze

You say this happens arma1? Was it on release, before 1.08 parch? I just checked that exact scenario and, they would search only, and if I made myself visible and they see me they watch that area for awhile then search and if I go ALL the way round to the back, they still searching. Thats with 'move' and 'safe'.

With 'search and destroy' and 'aware' or 'combat' they are mobile, and search, but at no point seem to 'know' where I am, only have suspicions and search where they saw me go. i.e behind the house that I went first is where they search, and its different if I go somewhere different.

I hope it isn't like that in ARMA 2 cause that sounds a bit irritating.

@ethne, also, don't see that in ARMA 1. They (3 other t72s) search around where IT went off quite alot actually, and don't look at me, who is 200 meters down the runway behind them.

ALL AI at max skill.

I just did it in ArmA 1 10 minutes ago.

I put a Hummer, M113 and Striker moving down the road. I plant satchels on the road before the vehicles arrive. I retreat behind a ridge (about 75 metres away) where there is no way the AI can see me.

As the vehicles pass the satchel I nail the Striker and the M113. The Hummer's .50 cal IMMEDIATELY points in my general direction even though there is absolutely NO WAY he can see me or know where I am. I stand up and receive a .50 cal headshot instantaneously.

Glad it is not a problem for you, but it is a problem for me.

Eth

[thyco 0]

Ive experienced what you are talking about but it doesnt always happen. Ive had a Brdm's turret follow me between cover ( me behind a solid wall crouching with my shadow on the lower section of the wall, moving left and right in an unpredictable way, all the while seeing the turrent follow me exactly)

However this and the fact that grass and bushes are providing concealment it ment to be fixed in an upcomming patch according to a post from ohara

[metalcraze 290]

You say this happens arma1? Was it on release, before 1.08 parch? I just checked that exact scenario and, they would search only, and if I made myself visible and they see me they watch that area for awhile then search and if I go ALL the way round to the back, they still searching. Thats with 'move' and 'safe'.

It still was happening to me in 1.14. A missile in the tank's back even if it's 200m away - it turns and starts to track me down while shooting wherever my head pops up even when I hide behind things. Maybe it isn't happening always just like other bugs - but it did happen to me several times. I'm currently reached CTI-type missions in the campaign so I'm sure I will have more chances to check this out.

In ArmA1 it was much worse though as AI had sniper's precision. Here it doesn't always take you down from 200m+. And there even was a mod for ArmA1 which added additional invisible polys to trees and bushes to make them obstruct AI's view so you will have a better chance to do such ambushes using them (though it didn't help much and also caused lags) - which kinda tells.

[EDcase 87]

A big AI cheat from ArmA was their ability to "see" through fallen trees. Is that still the case with ArmA2????

[SWT_Janowich 10]

The AI is not cheating! I've not witnessed neither experienced this!

Also they were all pretty smart all the time, a very big

thumb down for BIS's Micro AI, it really works for me, I love it

[aus_twisted 0]

The AI is not cheating! I've not witnessed neither experienced this!

Also they were all pretty smart all the time, a very big

thumb down for BIS's Micro AI, it really works for me, I love it

lol that post makes a lot of sense

[yarex 0]

Does FADE trigger super AI?

Edited June 4, 2009 by yarex

[el_muerko 0]

Does FADE trigger super AI?

Talking to a friend on TS right now, he bought the German version online and he's getting fade warnings, his aim is useless, the enemy ai see and kill him in one burst and the game turned him into a chicken, trying really hard not to laugh :D

[metalcraze 290]

Installed 1.01 final patch. I don't know if it did anything with AI but when I restarted the "Desert" mission (which is impossible to complete for me with a previous patch, don't know how it is with this one) it was pretty funny to watch how while Marek Smetana was casually talking to me about my mission goals all other guys were crawling around in panic shouting about how they detect enemies in the city 800 meters away through trees and buildings.

And then get a sniper shot with a GL grenade from 500 m.

Edited June 6, 2009 by metalcraze

[Maddmatt 1]

Talking to a friend on TS right now, he bought the German version online and he's getting fade warnings, his aim is useless, the enemy ai see and kill him in one burst and the game turned him into a chicken, trying really hard not to laugh :D

He must be using the language patch.

[-)rStrangelove 0]

I play with AI skill set to 0.5 now, it's fun that way. If you think it's too hard then you should go into the options menu rather than posting about AI cheats.

I witnessed they kept shooting a corner of a house from where i just fired on them, so they clearly use supression fire - makes the game far more enjoyable but you have to use cover until they're calm down a bit.

[galzohar 31]

We want good and skilled AI, just not a cheating AI. Lowering the skill should not be the solution. We want AI that can shoot well when he can see you, but not when he can't see you.

[trini scourge 1]

We want good and skilled AI, just not a cheating AI. Lowering the skill should not be the solution. We want AI that can shoot well when he can see you, but not when he can't see you.

You can change AI skill and Accuracy independently by editing the YourProflieName.cfg file in your MyDocuments/Arma2, under the appropriate difficulty class.

[galzohar 31]

It's not that. It's that I don't want them to see me behind cover, but I want them to see me when I'm not behind cover. You can't change those things separately.

[guy123 10]

He must be using the language patch.

Strange, I have a legal copy of ArmA2 from Morphicon.de and am using the language pack and no fade warnings yet (I downloaded on the day it came out)