Sharper recoils

[Q1184 0]

This pack includes two pbo's:

Q11_Recoils

As many of you may have noticed BIS recoils are a bit weird. Apart from being slow (BIS recoil starts after the shot) there is also some strange movement of the gun after the recoil itself. It quickly moves down and then up again, probably trying to simulate rezeroing. What I did was 1)Start the recoil the moment the shot starts, 2)Get rid of the barrel dive (almost to zero) and 3) Make the overall recoil cycle shorter. I liked the result and decided to share the stuff with the community. I would appreciate any constructive feedback to further improve this little mod.

Q11_RealROF:

Realistic rates of fire for small arms.

Change History

V.1.0

Q11_Recoils:

- Affected weapons: All small arms, from pistols to mg's and 50 cal sniper rifles. Also tweaked GL and M136/RPG-7.

- Separate recoilProne for assault rifles with less muzzleclimb.

- New recoil patterns for M24 and SVD (they use assault rifle recoil in vanilla game), including new prone recoil.

Q11_RealROF:

All M16A2 - 800 rpm instead of 400

All M16A4 - 800 rpm instead of 666.7

All M4 - 800 rpm instead of 666.7

All G36 - 750 instead of 600

AKS-74U((N) - 700 instead of 600

MP5(SD) - 800 instead of 600

V. 1.1 (Current)

Q11_Recoils:

- Tweaked recoils for assault rifles, SMG, sniper rifles, GL

Q11_RealROF:

- Fixed class inheritance error(Thanks Q)

- Changed reloadtimes to compensate for FPS dependency (blame ArmA engine). (Thanks General Barron, NWD, sdoc and others for pointing this out). New rates of fire are as follows:

AK-74 - 631 rpm @ >60 FPS

AKS-74U - 731 rpm @ >60 FPS

M16/M4 - 845 rpm @ >60 FPS

G36 - 780 rpm @ >60 FPS

MP5 - 845 rpm @ >60 FPS

The rates of fire at 30-40 FPS still can be lower than official values, but I just didn't want to make ROF's too high for people with high FPS.

Signed version 1.1 (fixed) HERE

For server admins: the public key can be downloaded at OFPEC.com

1.09 Beta specific version:

Includes q11_recoils.pbo with recoils adapted to 1.09 style recoil handling and q11_realrof.pbo which is the same as before, but also includes a fix for "bolt-action SVD" introduced in 1.09 Beta. Signatures are also there.

Download Q11_Recoils 1.09 specific

[456820 0]

Real rates of fire is something I've always wanted ever since the very begining of OFP. Always wondered why no one has implemented it into a mod of some sort.

Better recoils would also be great, you see videos of people firing weapons on full auto the barrel doesnt shoot up in the air as much as it does in ArmA.

ArmA is supposed to be realistic and these are both two crucial parts of weapons Ive always wondered why thevyve never been sorted properly.

Edit - Just noticed there was a download, trying it out now.

Edit 2 - I just realised this was in A&M: Complete not discussion. I need to wake up a bit

[Makake 0]

Does this conflict with NWD's Ballistics Mod?

[Q1184 0]

Not at all, I myself am a user of NWD's work

[ArmaVidz 0]

Not at all, I myself am a user of NWD's work

YES!!!

[JdB 151]

As many of you may have noticed BIS recoils are a bit weird. Apart from being slow (BIS recoil starts after the shot)

I am reading a book about firearms that contains quite a bit of information regarding the way weapons and ammunition work, and it mentions:

Quote[/b] ]From the moment the user decides to fire, it takes roughly 0,2 seconds before the triggerfinger follows the "order" to do so given by the brain. The firing-pin strikes the primer roughly 0,005 seconds after later. The propellant then ignites inside the bulletcase in roughly 0,0004 seconds, for a total of 0,2054 seconds. Because of the ignition of the primer the propellant is ignited and gas pressure begins to build. This chemical reaction continues even after the bullet has left the barrel. After about 0,004 seconds the bullet is free of the bulettcase and starts it's way through the barrel. The bullet exists the barrel at an approximate speed of 1000 meters per second (assault rifle), after it has been pushed though the barrel in about 0,0012 seconds. The total time it takes to hit a target at 100 meters from the signal the brain sends to the bullet actually hitting the target is about 0,3606 seconds. It is interesting to note that the shooter doesn't feel the recoil until roughly 0,2 seconds after the bullet has exited the barrel.

It would mean a delay of approx. 0,5 seconds from the moment you hit the mouse button, it's not meant to be instant.

[PTV-Jobo 820]

I just tried this with a mate of mine on MP...this is just pure great. we both love it and will continue to use it hands down. Thanks for posting this.

[Sosna 0]

Nice little mod, makes the game feel much more responsive.

I was actually thinking about recoil just the past few days. My idea was for the recoil to only pitch the weapon up and not return it down. So controlling the weapon in rapid fire would be completely up to the player. This mod is closer to that than the original settings, I like it.

[Q1184 0]

JdB

Thanks for the info, been looking for this kind of info on the web during my research.

Quote[/b] ]It would mean a delay of approx. 0,5 seconds from the moment you hit the mouse button, it's not meant to be instant.

According to your own quote it would be 0.2106 seconds from the pull of the trigger (mouse button push) to the recoil, not 0.5. You included the time the nervous system takes to transmit the signal to the finger, which equally takes place in real world both while playing and while shooting a real rifle, so it has to be omitted from the equation. But it's just nitpicking.

BIS recoil actually starts building up from the moment of the shot and reaches its maximum amplitude in 0.06 seconds. To me it felt too slow and empirically I found something that felt just right. If you try and make the recoil start building up 0.2 seconds after the shot, you won't want to play like this lol. So i based my approach on the feeling, and looks like correct data doesn't fit BIS engine

Sosna

I was thinking about that variant (leaving the barrel at the point of its maximum elevation and letting the player recenter the weapon), but came to the conclusion that trained shooter recenters the gun almost automatically and pretty fast, so this would just be an unnecessary complicatiion of things. But as I mentioned, there is a slight offset after each shot  

Betsalel

Thanks mate, glad someone likes it

[Mabes 0]

All I can say is bad ass, it seemed to make the AI a little less uber-accurate as well.

[MehMan 0]

YES! This is something I've wanted! I always found the recoils in ArmA odd, too slow to recover, this just what I needed! Thank you very much man!

[wika_woo 182]

Nice tool, will download soon enough.

I was hoping for something to smooth up the M107 and SVD druganuv..

Maybe in the future yes?..

Keep it up..

[PTV-Jobo 820]

All I can say is bad ass, it seemed to make the AI a little less uber-accurate as well.

Aha! So I wasn't the only one to notice that too. I went from being taken out instantly with one shot faaaaaaaaaaaar away to now having a realistic chance. At first me and my mate didn't know whether we got better or the AI was just having a bad day.

[miles teg 1]

I haven't tried out your pack yet but I hope you also give the MG's (m249, PKM, M240, etc..) seperate prone recoil as well. These weapons tend to have much less muzzle climb when fired from the prone. (I was a M249 and M60 gunner in the US Army years ago).

The M249 shakes a bit like a bumblebee but if you lean into the bipod in the prone position it is fairly stable firing bursts. I've not fired the PKM or M240, but I am assuming that they are similar to the M60 which is rock solid in the prone position. Because of the weight of the heavier 7.62mmx51mm (or x54mm in the case of the PKM) weapons, muzzle rise in the prone position tends to be very little as most of the recoil is absorbed by the body in a very efficient manner because your body is in-line with the recoil and the weapon is too heavy for the barrel to rise much if at all.

It was no problem hitting 600 meter targets just using iron sights on the M60. 800 meter shots I could get with my assistant gunner helping to spot the fall of my tracer rounds.

Anyways, I hope that your next update will have seperate muzzle rise for the MG's.

Thanks again for your hard work.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Q1184 0]

Mabes, Betsalel

Strange, I didnt notice the mod affecting AI accuracy, but if more reports come in, I'll think about tweaking AI dispersion coefficient. So far just don't install it on your dedi (who needs it on the dedi anyway) if you don't want to alter your AI settings, or just tighten them up a bit.

Miles Teg

Of course there are separate prone recoils for MG's:)

Thanks for sharing your experience btw, first hand descriptions are much more valuable than youtube videos, so keep'em coming! Also a question, how does M249 behave in an unstable position (standing/walking)? I followed the BIS steps here and left it quite controllable with little muzzleclimb. Seems fair enough, as it's 1.5-2 times heavier than a rifle and uses low impulse ammo. Anyway, looking forward to your critics after you tried the mod

wika_woo

Do you need that for your movies? Again, try the pack first) Maybe i'll get around to creating special "cinematographic" recoils for ya

[TheRanger 0]

Q1184, excellent addon! I hated the default recoil of the M4s (excluding the M4A1) and always picked up an AK-74 whenever I could. Now, I have a reason to keep my M4!

Note: you should include a README file with your addon just so that people will know who made this great little addon.

Miles Teg: The default game already has separate recoil values for prone vs. standing. The clearest examples of this are the M240 and PKM. Try firing them standing, and try while prone. You'll see a huge difference.

[OkitaMakoto 0]

beautiful!

I feel like Im actually firing a gun, and I feel like im actually in control of it!

I hated how the gun would lower itself from some random recoil effect...

But now, thats all gone. I was downing baddies out to a good distance (realistic distance, not ridiculous)

To a distance I thought was about right for the rate at which I was firing.

Only problem for me in ArmA now is the fact that AI still hogs my CPU... need a good AI script cleaner or something, make them not "think" so much and just "act".

[Sevan 0]

I really like the feel of this mod so far. Nice work.

One question though: Are the rates of fire theoritical or actual?

[Q1184 0]

I really like the feel of this mod so far. Nice work.

One question though: Are the rates of fire theoritical or actual?

Rates of fire are an interpolation between different data I managed to find, e.g M16 data varied between 700 and 900 so I made it 800. Not sure what you mean by theoretical and actual. If you mean that real rates of fire do not always match declared values due to different ammunition, state of the weapon etc, well, again, I took an avarage value, it's all Arma lets us do.

[Flat!!! 0]

Double checked your values Must say they were almost the same as I found on the net... Of course sometimes it said 700-900 etc but then you took 800 which is good Good Job m8

[sdoc 0]

JDB:

Quote[/b] ] It is interesting to note that the shooter doesn't feel the recoil until roughly 0,2 seconds after the bullet has exited the barrel.

The shooter does not feel the recoil, because it takes 0.2 seconds for the nerves to bring the information from his hands to his brain. That the shooter doesn't feel the recoil does not mean that the recoil is not in effect allready.

Quote[/b] ]It would mean a delay of approx. 0,5 seconds from the moment you hit the mouse button, it's not meant to be instant.

It doesn't matter if you want to press the trigger of a gun or the mouse button, it always takes 0.2 second for the nerves between your finger and your brain.

No need to implement any delay between pressing the mouse button and firing, the physiologic 0.2 s are already there. The miliseconds for the striker can be neglected. We don't feel any recoil. We see recoil only, so no delay there. The physical effect on the gun is also immediate.

[BilOlson 0]

Thank you , good stuff here! This game getting better day by day!

[PTV-Jobo 820]

No, no, I'm actually thankful. At least I can survive longer than 5 seconds on a map.

They're still pretty accurate, it's just now they seem a little more human in their shooting instead of the always 100% accurate at any distance. Trust me, I'm digging it. Before this, I spent more time as a friggen seagull than a soldier.

[Scrub 0]

I can 'craft' my line of fire much better, I can understand and control the barrel rise and offset, and I can better utilize burst mode from the closer firings. Thank you!

(experimenting with the AI accuracy, dying lotsa times. Need to compare with vanilla ArmA, since I have a dispersion mod installed)

[Tigerhund 0]

I think the MG-recoil in the prone position is pretty much dead on. The difference is that in real life, the smoke from the muzzle obscures your vision and you´ll lose sight of your target quickly. Like stated earlier, the recoil is absorbed by the shooter´s body and shakes your head around more than actually having the muzzle rise.

@Q1184: When firing the FN MAG (M240) from an unsupported position (from the hip with the sling around your neck) you hold your left arm on top of the sling and your hand around the carrying handle (as it is done in the Swedish military) to hold it down. Since the weapon is rather heavy, the muzzle doesn´t rise very much but you will feel the recoil pushing you backwards, but losing your balance can be prevented by leaning forward and into the weapon. I´ve never tried to shoot it un-supported from the shoulder as there´s no way to hold it without getting a handfull of hot brass (the ejection port is underneeth the reciever).

I hope this information will help you out a bit.