What's The Obsession With Coop?

[Nost 0]

When I load up the game and go to multiplayer all I see are Coop servers up I hate coop. To me that's like playing the single player part of the game and when I think multiplayer I think killing other live people in CTF HOLD or whatever. Is this game going to change or is this going to be the Arma becuase frankly Coop blows and I'm luck if I logon and see 1 or 2 server up besides coop.

[MEDICUS 0]

Most server are playing Evolution atm, but there are a some that play ctf and tdm, too.

The problem is, that there aren't enough missions at the moment. I'm also waiting for something like the good old Battelfield or RiverBattle in OFP, although i'm normaly playing coop.

But you really miss a great experience not playing good coop with a team in ts.

MfG Medicus

[0wl 0]

I noticed the very same thing there friend and i do not have a clue except for the fact that this looks a lot like when OFP came out. There were no real servers to play on, but then again i am no expert so i do hope that someone else can answer this!

The CTF games i have played so far have nothing to do with the islands and game imo, all i see are user content like different weapons and home made maps or somesuch!

[Kwato 0]

It might be because there are already dozens of other games where you can play deathmatch or CTF, but how many games are there where you can play in coop mode on user made missions?

Just my 2 cents.

[JdB 151]

Yeah, most of the people I know only play on servers that host Coop/CTI, and play OFP/ArmA specifically because it offers Coop mode.

[SolidSnake-(SNK) 0]

I delete everything else than Coop, even the missions that came with the game.

CTF and those types of missions are unrealistic.

[Vassago 0]

Honestly, what is your obsession with CTF? Or deathmatch?

EVERY online game has these modes, and plays them, TO DEATH. Hardly any game has Co-Op these days, so why can't we enjoy it? It's rare enough that a game has the option. We don't need trigger happy shoot-anything-that-moves players raining on our parade.

As time goes by, more servers will pop up. And undoubtedly, more will run CTF or Deathmatch. The game has only been out 1 week in the U.S - give it time.

[celery 8]

Honestly, what is your obsession with CTF? Or deathmatch?

Competitive game modes are played by competitive personalities. Just like sports, it enables you to find out which team or player is better and fighting against live opponents is more thrilling. A co-opper may accuse competitive players of unrealistic gameplay with no tactics, but for CTF/etc players the realism lies in close-to-real weapon effects, game mechanics and environment. They want to play it in ArmA because of the realism, they want to get away from stuff like Unreal and Call of Duty. For a PvP player tactics means the methods of beating another human team instead of mandatory military procedures and slow maneuvering.

Personally I don't give a damn about who plays what but when someone wants to restrict the way others play a freely customizable game, the perp is usually a co-opper who labels himself a "tactical realism player" and that makes me a bit reserved about co-oppers. Sometimes they are so full of it that they participate in PvP map threads to slander the map, click the Hexenkessel link in my sig for an example.

The realism argument used by co-oppers to prove their superiority over PvP gamers is extremely funny because killing 100+ retarded enemies to "take and hold two villages" in a small scale theatre is laughably unrealistic. Replace those enemy soldiers in coop missions with an intelligent human team and you gain ten realism points when it comes to credible opponents. If it's out of the question, another question may rise: are they playing co-op because slaughtering braindead AI opponents is the only way they can achieve the sensation of accomplishment?

[weegee_101 0]

Personally I don't give a damn about who plays what but when someone wants to restrict the way others play a freely customizable game, the perp is usually a co-opper who labels himself a "tactical realism player" and that makes me a bit reserved about co-oppers. Sometimes they are so full of it that they participate in PvP map threads to slander the map, click the Hexenkessel link in my sig for an example.

Amen!

[Vassago 0]

I hope you didn't think I was trying to say that the other modes are "stupid", "lame" or for "pussies". I meant nothing of the sort. I love the other game modes as well. But every game has them. CoOp is so rare in a game, it's nice to enjoy it when it IS in a game. That's all. Crackdown on Xbox360 for instance, has CoOp. It makes the game infinitely more enjoyable. We just don't see it very often. Much like "conquest" mode in the Battlefield series. Before that, it was only CTF, CTFH, DM or TDM. But with ticket timers and what not, it became something new and more enjoyable. That's pretty much the only mode that gets played now. CoOp also tends to be more appealing because it doesn't require a balanced team load of real people. It's not always easy finding 32 people for a 16 vs 16 match, ya know?

Getting something we don't get often, triggers a large community and user response. It's something fresh and new to play around with. And as I said before, I don't think there's reason to worry. The game has only been out 1 week in the US - more servers will pick up better (and widely varied) game modes.

[Dallas 9]

The realism argument used by co-oppers to prove their superiority over PvP gamers is extremely funny because killing 100+ retarded enemies to "take and hold two villages" in a small scale theatre is laughably unrealistic. Replace those enemy soldiers in coop missions with an intelligent human team and you gain ten realism points when it comes to credible opponents. If it's out of the question, another question may rise: are they playing co-op because slaughtering braindead AI opponents is the only way they can achieve the sensation of accomplishment?

You must admit though that a succesful executed attack against +100 braindead AIs are more realistic than respawning 15 times on a tight PvP map. I'm pure coop, but I do very well on hexenkessel maps. AI might not be Nobel Prize material, but nor are all PvP opponents. Usually there's 5 to 10 players dominating these maps, while everyone else are canonfodder.

In coop you very fast learn to appreaciate engaging from solid cover, using sights and moving from cover to cover. Eventhough you don't use 60 minutes on communication and insertion, coop skills are pure gold on PvP maps.

[celery 8]

You must admit though that a succesful executed attack against +100 braindead AIs are more realistic than respawning 15 times on a tight PvP map. I'm pure coop, but I do very well on hexenkessel maps. AI might not be Nobel Prize material, but nor are all PvP opponents. Usually there's 5 to 10 players dominating these maps, while everyone else are canonfodder.

Respawning 15 times and facing an army of 100 retarded terminator zombies are quite even in the unrealism race. But only co-oppers would care about which one is more realistic.

In coop you very fast learn to appreaciate engaging from solid cover, using sights and moving from cover to cover. Eventhough you don't use 60 minutes on communication and insertion, coop skills are pure gold on PvP maps.

Pretty neat, but at least in PvP you can learn to use solid cover, aim down your sights and move from cover to cover. It's really useful in coop!

[frederf 0]

Quote[/b] ]In coop you very fast learn to appreaciate engaging from solid cover, using sights and moving from cover to cover. Eventhough you don't use 60 minutes on communication and insertion, coop skills are pure gold on PvP maps.

I would disagree and say it's the other way around. PvP makes you good at coop. Recently we've had some mainly Coops vs AI but there's been a couple human OPFOR and guess what? Our lazy AI-defeating skills have gotten us killed. We gladly stand in the open or linger peering over a crest because we are used to that being OK with AI.

I don't know about the rest of you but I have a 6th sense for the AI's detection range and I laugh at all the people doing secure movement techniques when we're 600m from the AI. I also laugh at the people still lallygagging once we step 1m inside the magical invisible fence (and get shot) around the AI where they start to mean business.

The reason we play coop is due to the scale of the ops we can do (10 vs 100 instead of 5 v 5), the fact that any objectives go out the window in PvP (just becomes a TDM), 90% of people are dead in the first 2 minutes, and most kills are not through fire and maneuver just snipe-bang-dead-yawn. Also PvP simply requires better-trained people and faster-thinkers than we have.

I don't think coop has to be against brain dead zombies. I regularly find the infantry defense of Paraiso in Evolution 1.5a to be very dynamic and requires a tactical head. I commonly get flanked, have to fall back, etc in a pleasing give and take.

[mattxr 9]

This game is made for coops. amen.

But i agree too many Evo Servers.

[celery 8]

This game is made for coops. amen.

But i agree too many Evo Servers.

This game is made for whatever content is made for it, and I think you are mixing the threads.

[lwlooz 0]

I can only again advertise people to try out A&D or "PvP Coop".

It mixes the "large-scale"-ness of Coop and the Teamwork/Cooperation of Coop (10 individuals in CTF having the same goal,but mostly acting by their own isn't teamwork) with the dynamics of PvP (Smart Enemy).

The only real limit there is the sometimes not-up-to-the-task teammate AI's , but it is still plenty of fun

[desertfox 2]

First of all I sort of agree to the topic title. There's a tad too many coop servers up, playing coop all day long, while you really have to look for a decent 10vs10 player CTF/C&H or the like.

On the one hand I really love cooperative missions. Especially when played as a team, with a teamspeak server and people you know. They offer a great atmosphere and last as long as a good movie.

On the other hand nothing gives me an adrenaline rush but a PvP map. Because you face *smart* enemies that actually *think*. (Exceptions prove the rule.)

I'd love to see a balanced number of coop & pvp servers running, so everyone has something to choose from.

[zwobot 17]

This game is made for coops. amen.

That's very ignorant of you.

I agree with Celery about everybody shall play ArmA as he or she wants to.

I am a coop gamer. And I think there have some good points been made about the general attitude coop gamers have. Honestly I believe most coop missions are not very realistic: 1 squad against dozens or hundreds AI and trying to accomplish an unrealistic amount of objectives.

So it is ridiculous to discuss wether pure PvP or Coop is the most realistic game mode as this:

I can only again advertise people to try out A&D or "PvP Coop".

is the most realistic

No, really it is worhless to discuss realism of the various game modes.

You should define realism first before talking about it in the first place.

[OrLoK 20]

Hello

I am a mainly CooP player.

BUT I would Love team pvp with decent goals and objectives, if one could get "Coop" play with live players.

I find the pvp games I play just disolve into "everyman for himself" gameplay. (much like Evo does in coop).

I played Karillions CTI (or is it rts?) today and that was lot of fun and more challenging than PvAI, but we were constantly base raped by choppers that had little disregard for their own lives and losses.

I know that this may be acceptable gameplay, but the fact that many missions are respawn and you dont really loose much takes the fear out of things IMHO.

But (back OT) I mainly play coop as I find the games to be of a slower pace and less run and gun. (Although obviously there are point grabbers in coop too).

Also DM, CTF and vanilla TDM leave me cold.

I would play more PvP if there were more NO respawn missions with objectives.

Imagine an Evo type mission with NO respawn! would be excellent, would take ages though and prob would never get completed.

I suppose increasing respawn times to say 3/4 mins wouldassist in the danger (pehaps mixed with a friendly side spectate script to stop disconnects).

Not knocking other gameplay modes, they just not my thing.

I think i made my point, but im awfully hung over so pls excuse me.

Rgds

LoK

[ebud 18]

I'm far from a regular mp player, but when I have played it was mainly coop. I tried DM etc years ago with OFP and didn't enjoy it. CTF was just horrible on the public servers I tried out. It just felt "wrong".

The reason I advocate coop even though I rarely play is because when and if I do play, I want to play and treat it as if it's the real thing. I want to have an objective that can relate to RL situations. Other than paintball what good is CTF in RL? If you could get 30 or so players to act out a mission with objectives as if it were RL, then I would play PVP every chance I get, but only in coop can you usually get people to act this way.

I love the idea above about no respawn or looooong respawn times. What I hated about the CTF or other gameplay was that no one really cared about getting shot as they would just respawn and rush forward again anyway. Why care? There is no incentive to try and save yourself or your teammates when you know you or they will just respawn right away. It takes away all the tension.

With the other game modes it's just like a sport or virtual paintball, not a simulated combat environment.

If your into competitive online league play, then I can understand why you would gravitate to the competitive gameplay types though and have no problem with them, but not many games out there have good coop while you can play the more "gamey" modes in all other FPS games.

[d3dsh33p 0]

well, I didnt have a chance to read the whole thread, but I can tell you that I'm working directly with people who are make large scale cti/tdm/coop type missions... you can get a little bit of everything from one mission basicly. Lets just hope it turns out right...

[Junker 0]

Everyone has there Opinions and everyone has there style of game type, You cant force or argue the matter all because a handful of people want to PvP.

If you want to PvP then fine but its upto you people that want PvP to make it happen instead of wasting your time on the forums debating about it, I mean look at you theres about agood 20 people alone in this thread who want to PvP why not get together and shoot each other

[madrussian 347]

IMO, standard "snipe-bang-dead-yawn" game modes grow boring on about the second respawn.  Unfortunately that's all that most games offer.  There just aren't that many coop games out there, and it just makes sense that people are going to take advantage when coop is actually available.  Heck, coop is one of the main reasons I play this game.  (btw- Thanks Frederf for the "s-b-d-y" term... it fits! )

What a good part of the coop debate really comes down to imo is fear of death.  The problem with the standard "snipe-bang-dead-yawn" game modes is, there are no reprocussions when you die.  No matter the objectives, the game quickly becomes a stat-contest.  To me (and many others) that's not a bit interesting.

[Now, I should take a moment here and recognise the fact that Evolution and some other coops do have unlimited respawn... but the majority don't.]

As far as the fighting AI vs fighting human players debate goes, both have their advantages, but there's something important to note here.

In a majority of situations, human players don't make very immersive enemies.  

Think about it in terms of mission design...  Human players can't/won't role-play the majority of necessary roles.  Case in point: They won't post guard duty in "safe" mode, pretending to not be aware that they are about to be in a fire-fight.  Human beings just WON'T do that!

IMO, an ideal mission, whether coop or versus, has to have AIs, and the ratio should really be about 90% AI to 10% human.

So I suppose to me, the game mode per say isn't the most important thing.  The level of immersion is.  Coop simply offers a higher level of immersion on so many levels.

To each his own though.

[shataan 1]

I have been gaming since back in the days of R6, the original. And I can tell you why co op has become my mode of choice.

Steadilly cheating has replaced honor on the battlefield in most games. Anything someone can do to gain an edge is adopted.

A.I. however don`t smacktalk, they don`t glitch, cheat etc etc etc. And I am gaurenteed a great game experience everytime I play. Most co op players check their EGOs at the door, and just go in for the teamwork, and immersion factor.

Now I do dig a good wackoff game session as much as the next dude. Take a game like Unreal Tourney or Quake etc. Those games I expect peeps to be total smacktalking azzhats. hehhhe But I won`t tolorate that shiz in my onfoot milcombat sims now.

There you have it. I have seen the increase of co op interest for years because of the reasons I have stated. Many co opers I know feel the exact same way as I do.

[Rommel 2]

Personnaly, I can't stand the CTF modes, but I love organised PvP. In other words clan VS clan, because it means the clans can play co-operatively, 'reallistically' while versing a worthwhile opponent when really, if you look at it, all reallistic clans are trained to verse other human players, we just need to put it the test more often