Helicopters in AA

[dm 9]

It sounds somewhat logical and it would explain the weird behaviour aswell.

-> Get rid of it pls

It strikes me as odd that BI continue to put the autocenter back into their code.

It was added somewhere around 1.30/1.46 and people bitched about it, so it was removed. If I recall correctly, it was back AGAIN in 1.75, and was bitched about, so it was removed AGAIN. And it was back again in 1.96... Similar happened in VBS1, it was there, not there, there again. Rather frustrating...

Just seems that since 90%+ of players hate it (it makes using a hat switch on a joystick impossible, since you can only move the view to the extremes, as well as the other annoyances listed here) its odd that it keeps creeping back into the code...

Could we not get rid of it once and for all please?

[Fresh- 6]

Quote[/b] ]Just seems that since 90%+ of players hate it (it makes using a hat switch on a joystick impossible, since you can only move the view to the extremes, as well as the other annoyances listed here) its odd that it keeps creeping back into the code...

DeadmeatXM2, the FREE LOOK function solves this problem. Once FREE LOOK is pressed, the hat works great. No more extremes!

[Pierrot 0]

Here is a video of HellfireII.

https://mfcbastion.external.lmco.com/mfc....ger.mpg

There seems to be two modes in HellfireII: lock on after launch(LOAL) and lock on before launch(LOBL). Of course realistic flight model is very important for sims but realistic weaponry also plays an important roll in sims. I wish there were methods to realize LOAL and LOBL by using scripts in ArmA.

[mattxr 9]

Seems realistic to me..

Just some of the helicopter need tweaked.. as my movie shows there is nothing wrong with the flight model for the blackhawks except the auto center thing..

[Movie Coming Soon]

[BlackAlpha 10]

Here's a new link for my Cobra movie. The other one got screwed up for some reason.

http://www.uploading.com/files/Q4TFMSQL/ConvoyRun.wmv.html

I found another bug. If you lock on to a target and turn away from it (180 degrees) you can still hit it with missles. They will simply make a turn after you launch them and they will pretty much always hit the target if they are far enough. If they are to close there might not be enough time for the missles to turn. So basically if you are far enough it's a matter of pressing tab, clicking mouse, pressing tab, clicking mouse, pressing tab, clicking mouse. Doesn't really matter if you are facing them the right way, as long they show up on the radar.

[mattxr 9]

Here is my Heli Patrol Movie#

[BlackAlpha 10]

I guess that you used a headset while recording?

Try flying with the gunships. They handle much differently. Not saying it's impossible or anything but they are a bit harder so I'm wondering what you will think about them.

[Journeyman 0]

Is the flight dynamics of all the choppers modelled differently according to their different weights?

Can someone do a flight video (third and first person view) of the MI-17?  

[mattxr 9]

Is the flight dynamics of all the choppers modelled differently according to their different weights?

Can someone do a flight video (third and first person view) of the MI-17?

oki will do

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

Is the flight dynamics of all the choppers modelled differently according to their different weights?

Yes it is.

I proved it by porting in the RKSL SeaKing, Puma and Commanche.  Its possible to signifcantly alter the handling using the mass but the flight model still isnt great.  No matter what you do the rudder doesnt improve nor does the 'digital' pitch.

The FM is bareable if you use the keys but if you flying with a joystick and throttle better wait until BIS patch it.

[BlackAlpha 10]

The only difference I noticed was that the bigger choppers behave slower. Everything else is the same. For example if it takes 1 second for the Cobra to do something it would take 1.5 seconds for the Blackhawk. Like I said before, if you move fast there's a bigger chance to notice the bugs. Because the bigger choppers behave slower it's slight harder to notice the bugs but they are still there.

[madrussian 347]

I just read this whole thread straight through.  Fascinating stuff.

OK, took a couple of sessions...  

Just wanted to say thanks to all of you who stood up and put your foot down with regards to the current state of the air controls (and the other vehicle controls).  As an avid OFP/simulation player through the years, I've witnessed the disturbing trend of the decline of the PC gaming platform (as I'm sure you have as well).  With consoles taking over, it seems now even the controls of our computer games are not safe!  (side note- Did any of you know that Microsoft is now mandating the XBOX controller for it’s “Games for Windows†brand?!?    )

Now I don't have my copy of ArmA yet (holding out for the 505 version), but I've been following along on the issue of controls intently, and I've watched the vids.  Everything from the ArmA flight videos I've seen, and almost every description I've read so far in this thread reminds me of the last time I tried to fly an aircraft on a cheesy console game/controller.  As in not pretty!  

Auto-centering the view?!?  Taking what was a perfectly fine air control system from OFP and butchering it with twitchy controls?!?  Please...  

Anyhow, thanks again to those of you who spoke up.  It’s also quite apparent that a number of you put in a good deal of time and energy attempting to characterize the (many) issues with the flight controls, and I applaud you for your efforts.  From Placebo’s post sounds like BIS is paying attention.  

Indeed, thank you BIS for listening to us.  Very few developers seem to nowadays.

Anyhoo, can’t wait to get my copy and take to the air!

(in a newly non-screwed up way)

[Millenium7 0]

I've just been playing around with choppers some more and its actually not too bad the biggest problem is the lack of a crosshair (or 2nd crosshair) for the mouse. The tab button is just sad quite often you can sit 100 metres from something not moving and the stupid key doesn't target the damn thing. Right click targetting is still in the game but the problem is you can't see your crosshair so it makes it very difficult to target vehicles. BIS reintroduce the freelook crosshair for choppers damnit. Even if you don't bring back freelook at the very least put a 2nd crosshair in thats turned on when mouse freelook is on. I just took out a heap of tanks with both the AH-1 and the whatever it is (VU-50?) but I literally had to sit right on top of them to target. In MP or with AI that isn't severely retarded which I hope you patch that is not gonna be possible

That said the choppers arent too bad the Mi-17 is still either a very sick joke or just very sick but the blackhawk is a piece of cake to fly, the gunships are a bit twitchy but with twitchy taps on the keyboard are quite flyable. The rudder however is far too sensitive its not possible to target accurately without using the mouse. And I think the choppers are supposed to turn more when you bank but with a GOD DAMN FREELOOK that won't be a problem. I can't get down to my 2 metres off the ground following the roads on kolgujev at 200km/h flying but 15 metres at 250 isn't too bad

[Guggy 0]

Well on the bright side, the Cobra is unstable enough to make some AWESOME dance videos.

I found some thing in the Config.bin file called "Envelope". It looked somewhat like a Joystick sensitivity curve, but it didnt react to any changes I made. I was hoping I'd found a cure for these horrible whirlybird woes

But the Envelope line was only there for the Helicopter and Plane vehicle types in the Config.bin from the Dta folder, and it was only there for the CAMEL in the Air.pbo file. Perhaps it warrants looking into more indepth?

Strange times indeed!

[max power 21]

I just noticed in that video that Matt Rochelle kindly made for us that the Blackhawk seems to bank on an axis at the centre of the plane of its rotors rather than at the point of its centre of gravity. This could just be how the camera is set up, but could someone confirm this? I would like to make a bug report on the wiki if this is true. It's not game breaking, but they really should bank at their centre of gravity.

[Stealth3 0]

You can clearly see that the choppers handle like planes. I mean, the dude barely turned a few angles the whole time.

If you see flight videos of choppers in real life you clearly see thats not how they fly.

[DrBobcat 0]

Ok. I've got the game. One thing to say - frustration. The flight system is so effing strange. Planes and helicopters operate quite similarily in the game now, which, in most cases, is how it should be. However, when banking and applying acceleration (and/or lifting your nose) the aircraft (helicopter or fixed-wing) continues to slide along its foward direction in a long drift. It feels incredibly unnatural. However, if they manage to tighten up the controls and add a sense of mass/weight to the aircraft, the flight engine will be giant leaps and bounds over flashpoint's.

Here's to hoping!

- dRb

[Stealth3 0]

are you flying with a joystick? Because with the mouse planes suck to fly. That wasn't the case for OFP

And I refuse to fly with a joystick.

[dm 9]

are you flying with a joystick? Because with the mouse planes suck to fly. That wasn't the case for OFP

And I refuse to fly with a joystick.

Then you're forcing the limitation on yourself.

Real aircraft are flown with a joystick for a reason

[Journeyman 0]

are you flying with a joystick?  Because with the mouse planes suck to fly.  That wasn't the case for OFP

And I refuse to fly with a joystick.

Then you're forcing the limitation on yourself.

Real aircraft are flown with a joystick for a reason

A helicopter could be flown with a mouse so could a car be driven with one and a fighter jet flown by one also! I can fly in FSX on full realism with my trackball mouse!

The limitations aren't in the controller if the flight dynamics are correct. A joystick/steering wheel is beefier and therefore commands more control but that is mainly for safety reasons IRL. I prefer to use a joystick when flying on the PC but it does not limit my control that much to use my mouse!  

Main advantage of the joystick is that it has a definitive centre unlike the mouse so you can 'feel' what is going on!

[DrBobcat 0]

are you flying with a joystick?  Because with the mouse planes suck to fly.  That wasn't the case for OFP  

And I refuse to fly with a joystick.

No I am not flying with a joystick. Mouse/keyboard user since my 2001 OFP days. I was quite suprised for it to be so difficult. I saw the videos and the "twitchiness" but wow... it's pretty damn frustrating. I imagine a patch will be out quite soon, however, and that all will be (relatively) well.

- dRB

[brabax 0]

Hello Guys,

as a real life helicopter pilot I really enjoyed flying helicopters in OFP. It was quite realistics, some effects were missing, but even autorotations were possible. It was a pleasure to play with the pitch control during an ar to settle her down with no engine running. Pure fun !

I couldn't wait to get my copy of ArmA, because I've wanted to try out the new flight model.

What a disappointment.

The analouge controls seems to be gone. The whole helicopter is controlled basicly with six knobs: forward, fast-forward, backward, left, right, up, down. Every button has an on-off condition, nothing more. If you push the stick forward, pitch is increased automaticly and vice-versa. Hover-taxi is nearly impossible due to a very bumpy (non-analouge) control.

I guess it has been done to improve ai helicopter handling.

Well, I dont really like the new flight model - I want the old one back with one addition: maximum load for helicopters.

I even would be crazy enought to fly a helicopter to Prauqe to demonstrate what helicopter flying is all about to the BI programmer on dual controls if they promise to change the model in a given time.

So c'mon guys, give us back what we need

[suma 8]

We are preparing a significantly reworked helicopter control model for the next patch. I guess this topic has little sense until you will be able to test it, therefore I am closing it for now.

[Placebo 29]

One of our beta testers currently testing the next patch kindly whacked off a little video showing the updated flight model, he chose to fly with keyboard/mouse as that's what one of the primary complaints was about, discussion will continue when the next patch is released*, here's the video:

updated_helo_flight.wmv

*Next patch eta = Now

Opening as new patch is released.

[deanosbeano 0]

i did put this in troubleshooting ,but no harm to put here also.

v1.02

problem :

no response from helo (mh-6) when moving mouse left

helo will continue right 360% if i keep movimg right ,but when

moving mouse left to counter ,there is no response.

mouse type infra red usb.