Helicopters in AA

[shadow 6]

BIS are aware of that a pedal-turn induce yaw (sideways banking). It appears to be a complex problem. It might be fixed, it might not be.

So preparing for the worst, I suggest you start practicing compensating with opposite cyclic movement while pedal-turning to avoid unintentional sideslipping.

Pedal left - compensate with cyclic right.

[Universel 0]

Could any of you chopper Aces post a video showing you evading Stinger/Strela AA.

In my hundreds of attemps, and I mean hundreds, I never could fool any AA missile and this seems a huge bug to me.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]In my hundreds of attemps, and I mean hundreds, I never could fool any AA missile and this seems a huge bug to me.

The missile locks on you and reaction times in a helo are too high to make evasive maneuvers. There may be a chance if you are 2 or km´s away when the missile is fired but Arma engagement ranges do not allow any evasive maneuvers.

On a sidenote, it´s very hard/almost impossible to evade close-range AA missiles irl too.

I guess Arma just gets it right.

Something you could add to the wishlist is that we get a missile-lock-warning sound in helos and planes once an AA unit

locks on you. Another warning sound for active radar scanning AA tanks would be nice aswell. I don´t have much time this afternoon as I´m compiling some stuff for editors,so if you find time Universal to post at Wiki wishlist, go ahead :

[MisterXY 0]

Could any of you chopper Aces post a video showing you evading Stinger/Strela AA.

In my hundreds of attemps, and I mean hundreds, I never could fool any AA missile and this seems a huge bug to me.

We haven't flares!  

In this video the AA rocket is coming from the top it does not follow the helicopter, it would be just a waste of kinetic energey if the rocket would track the target from behind. It just increases altidute and is steering in the raw direction of the target. When the rocket is near enough, it "falls" like a Javelin into the target to destroy it.

Maybe the behaviour of the AA rocket ArmA is not 100 percent right? I could be wrong. But I would like to hear a loud Piiep sound when an aircraft is locked. That would be awsome!

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]We haven't flares!

Even if we had, it would just be some dropped particles or objects that would not influence the giudance of rockets as it only locks once on an object but does not reevaluate the target while flying. Means the destination is set once and there is no way (to my knowledge) to assign a different target while the rocket is flying. The assigning would have to be done by the unit firing the rocket, means it would have to switch target on the dropped particles or objects (flares, chaff) once it has fired the weapon.

It would be nice to have a missile-lock-warning embedded. This way there would be a chance of scripting countermeasures that would emit objects with a much higher negative rating than the aircraft or helo and make themselves a much more attractive target to the AI AA unit.

Just my thoughts.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

BIS are aware of that a pedal-turn induce yaw (sideways banking). It appears to be a complex problem. It might be fixed, it might not be.

So preparing for the worst, I suggest you start practicing compensating with opposite cyclic movement while pedal-turning to avoid unintentional sideslipping.

Pedal left - compensate with cyclic right.

It was the same with the OFP engine, it always mixed yaw with roll  

I've just flown the new patch properly and it is a big improvement, im sure im echoing others with a few requests (and yes i will add these to the wishlist) for the next(?) patch:

1) Automatically Reverse the collective control joystick axis in Helos

2) Increase rudder sensitivity at higher speed.

I'm still suffering from poor collective response at speed but can that be changed with the sensitivity?

[Universel 0]

Quote[/b] ]In my hundreds of attemps, and I mean hundreds, I never could fool any AA missile and this seems a huge bug to me.

The missile locks on you and reaction times in a helo are too high to make evasive maneuvers. There may be a chance if you are 2 or km´s away when the missile is fired but Arma engagement ranges do not allow any evasive maneuvers.

On a sidenote, it´s very hard/almost impossible  to evade close-range AA missiles irl too.

I guess Arma just gets it right.

Something you could add to the wishlist is that we get a missile-lock-warning sound in helos and planes once an AA unit

locks on you. Another warning sound for active radar scanning AA tanks would be nice aswell. I don´t have much time this afternoon as I´m compiling some stuff for editors,so if you find time Universal to post at Wiki wishlist, go ahead :

I don't know RL, but I read many times that Stinger missiles were pretty dumb and you could sometimes evade them without doing any particular move, just flying straight (like in OFP, or Falcon 4).

In Arma they can perform a 180° turn in 2 meters... come on.

And if you compare them to their AG pendant, the uberdumb Hellfires which can barely hit a BMP travelling at 10km/h, it's even worse.

[Universel 0]

Quote[/b] ]We haven't flares!  

Even if we had, it would just be some dropped particles or objects that would not influence the giudance of rockets as it only locks once on an object but does not reevaluate the target while flying. Means the destination is set once and there is no way (to my knowledge) to assign a different target while the rocket is flying. The assigning would have to be done by the unit firing the rocket, means it would have to switch target on the dropped particles or objects (flares, chaff) once it has fired the weapon.

It would be nice to have a missile-lock-warning embedded. This way there would be a chance of scripting countermeasures that would emit objects with a much higher negative rating than the aircraft or helo and make themselves a much more attractive target to the AI AA unit.

Just my thoughts.

If I remember well, a few years ago I tried some AH64 Addon for OFP where the chopper could fool a AA even while hovering. Maybe it was WGL.

When you lock chopper nothing changes but It would start dropping flares (imho just visual effects) after missile launch and missile would eventually miss it.

[DrBobcat 0]

After installing 1.02 and remapping my keys to make the mouse bank left/right as well as pitch up/down, my flight experience has completely changed. I can now smoothly fly any helicopter in the game and perform the tasks that were layed out for that aircraft to perform. Although the Cobra is the only real helicopter that's being of any real challenge at the moment, this new flight engine is greatly improved over both the previous (buggy) one, and even OFP's.

All IMHO though....

- A very happy helicopter pilot named dRb

EDIT: If you're having any problems flying the helicopters with your keyboard/mouse, make sure that you have all the settings correctly placed. I'd recommend setting mouse left/right to bank left/right (NOT TURN left/right). Turn left/right is for lazy people who like to have their banking and rear-rotor movements tied together. It's highly unrecommended and makes the movements feel clumsy.

[MisterXY 0]

Quote[/b] ]We haven't flares!  

Even if we had, it would just be some dropped particles or objects that would not influence the giudance of rockets as it only locks once on an object but does not reevaluate the target while flying. Means the destination is set once and there is no way (to my knowledge) to assign a different target while the rocket is flying. The assigning would have to be done by the unit firing the rocket, means it would have to switch target on the dropped particles or objects (flares, chaff) once it has fired the weapon.

It would be nice to have a missile-lock-warning embedded. This way there would be a chance of scripting countermeasures that would emit objects with a much higher negative rating than the aircraft or helo and make themselves a much more attractive target to the AI AA unit.

Just my thoughts.

Yeah, I agree with you.

[craigsa 0]

Well i have been trying the choppers out as that was the main issue for me. Once again i am disappointed, why did BIS not listen to the community and bring back the old model (I stand to be corrected but i thought thats what was wanted ??). If you fly rear view , it is still difficult to stop the chopper dipping towards the gound and even doing a 360 sideways. I tried changing the controls and it made it worse.

Another thing is when heading towards the ground, at high speed, therwe seems to be no way to pull up quickly. There does not seem to be a chance of having dog fights at low level.

Maybe someone can offer some advice when flying rear view. In cockpit is much easier but i hate to say it, i dont think that too much has changed.

Sorry for the moaning but by the time AA is working properly, it will have cost me 200 Euros.

[ThePredator 0]

I still think the controls suck. The helicopters do fly like stones.

You crash into the ground manytimes, because the helicopter has no ground-effect (in OFP you could fly to a hill and the height was automaticaly increased due to the closer proximitry to the ground).

In ArmA you just crash into the hill.

Turning left/right is just useless, the helicopter has no fixed wings, which would make the vehicle act like that. The angle of the rotor blades changes and therefore the helo does not completely bank to the side. The collective is much stronger than it is in ArmA.

Why the devs changed the nice helicopter flight model from OFP anyway?

Don't fix what ain't broken.

[craigsa 0]

Predator i have to agree with you 100%. I just dont get the logic or lack of logic in this. They see a problem and "fix it" ever so slightly. I am sorry to bitch and moan here as i know how much we all hate whinning forumites. I just had to pay another 150 South African Rand to download the new patch and i feel it was wasted. I really hope they can just take out the simulator feeling in the helo's. Please BIS i am begging you

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Why the devs changed the nice helicopter flight model from OFP anyway?

IMO it wasn't all that good in OFP. The controls weren't sensitive enough, and they weren't jerky enough... too stable if you ask me, and rather sluggish. It was also nearly impossible to lose lift unless you flipped the chopper upside down, and even then they wouldn't lose enough (i.e. all of it) as they should have.

[Dudester 0]

Well there is good and bad with the helicopters now. BIS have listened to complaints about the chopper but have missed one key complaint. (RUDDER CONTROL) I'm sick to the teeth of my joystick twist grip turning from been a rudder, to banking left or right as soon as i get over 60mph. Its just so damned frustrating. Why the hell didn't they fix this. I hope to god there not going to leave this in.

[Metal Heart 0]

In OFP the helos feel too restricted, like somebody forgot the kiddie wheels on. I'm glad if they fixed that.

Quote[/b] ]You crash into the ground manytimes, because the helicopter has no ground-effect (in OFP you could fly to a hill and the height was automaticaly increased due to the closer proximitry to the ground).

Not if you used a joystick in OFP. And it's not ground effect, it's like a hold-alt autopilot. Ground effect really only happens when you're hovering very low and it doesn't have a huge impact, perhaps like a 10-20% increase in lift.

Quote[/b] ]Turning left/right is just useless, the helicopter has no fixed wings, which would make the vehicle act like that. The angle of the rotor blades changes and therefore the helo does not completely bank to the side.

At speed, the rotor acts somewhat like a big fixed wing, the air flow hitting it generates lift. Choppers do roll and loop if the pilot is crazy enough to command such maneuvers.

[craigsa 0]

In OFP the helos feel too restricted, like somebody forgot the kiddie wheels on. I'm glad if they fixed that.

Quote[/b] ]You crash into the ground manytimes, because the helicopter has no ground-effect (in OFP you could fly to a hill and the height was automaticaly increased due to the closer proximitry to the ground).

Not if you used a joystick in OFP. And it's not ground effect, it's like a hold-alt autopilot. Ground effect really only happens when you're hovering very low and it doesn't have a huge impact, perhaps like a 10-20% increase in lift.

Quote[/b] ]Turning left/right is just useless, the helicopter has no fixed wings, which would make the vehicle act like that. The angle of the rotor blades changes and therefore the helo does not completely bank to the side.

At speed, the rotor acts somewhat like a big fixed wing, the air flow hitting it generates lift. Choppers do roll and loop if the pilot is crazy enough to command such maneuvers.

So what you are saying is that while having a serious conflict i must then switch to my joystick and then back to the keyboard ? I have never heard of any game where you have to do this. That makes your response time cut down by minutes. I have never used my joystick for any game except simulators and i dont intend to now. What exactly did we download ? After all the bitching the choppers are still unflyable at extreme speed during any dog fight in rear / cockpit view. OFP was perfect - BRING IT BACK

Another thing, when in rear view of any vehicle, and you swing the mouse either left or right, the whole view swings so fast and so radical that it makes you swing the other way to compensate.

[Maddmatt 1]

In OFP the helos feel too restricted, like somebody forgot the kiddie wheels on. I'm glad if they fixed that.

Quote[/b] ]You crash into the ground manytimes, because the helicopter has no ground-effect (in OFP you could fly to a hill and the height was automaticaly increased due to the closer proximitry to the ground).

Not if you used a joystick in OFP. And it's not ground effect, it's like a hold-alt autopilot. Ground effect really only happens when you're hovering very low and it doesn't have a huge impact, perhaps like a 10-20% increase in lift.

Quote[/b] ]Turning left/right is just useless, the helicopter has no fixed wings, which would make the vehicle act like that. The angle of the rotor blades changes and therefore the helo does not completely bank to the side.

At speed, the rotor acts somewhat like a big fixed wing, the air flow hitting it generates lift. Choppers do roll and loop if the pilot is crazy enough to command such maneuvers.

So what you are saying is that while having a serious conflict i must then switch to my joystick and then back to the keyboard ? I have never heard of any game where you have to do this. That makes your response time cut down by minutes. I have never used my joystick for any game except simulators and i dont intend to now. What exactly did we download ? After all the bitching the choppers are still unflyable at extreme speed during any dog fight in rear / cockpit view. OFP was perfect - BRING IT BACK

He didn't say that you must use a joystick, the helicopter physics are not going to suddenly change into something completely different.

Also, why on Earth would you use a keyboard when you have a joystick?

OFP choppers were far from perfect. It wasn't realistic.

[craigsa 0]

In OFP the helos feel too restricted, like somebody forgot the kiddie wheels on. I'm glad if they fixed that.

Quote[/b] ]You crash into the ground manytimes, because the helicopter has no ground-effect (in OFP you could fly to a hill and the height was automaticaly increased due to the closer proximitry to the ground).

Not if you used a joystick in OFP. And it's not ground effect, it's like a hold-alt autopilot. Ground effect really only happens when you're hovering very low and it doesn't have a huge impact, perhaps like a 10-20% increase in lift.

Quote[/b] ]Turning left/right is just useless, the helicopter has no fixed wings, which would make the vehicle act like that. The angle of the rotor blades changes and therefore the helo does not completely bank to the side.

At speed, the rotor acts somewhat like a big fixed wing, the air flow hitting it generates lift. Choppers do roll and loop if the pilot is crazy enough to command such maneuvers.

So what you are saying is that while having a serious conflict i must then switch to my joystick and then back to the keyboard ? I have never heard of any game where you have to do this. That makes your response time cut down by minutes. I have never used my joystick for any game except simulators and i dont intend to now. What exactly did we download ? After all the bitching the choppers are still unflyable at extreme speed during any dog fight in rear / cockpit view. OFP was perfect - BRING IT BACK

He didn't say that you must use a joystick, the helicopter physics are not going to suddenly change into something completely different.

Also, why on Earth would you use a keyboard when you have a joystick?

OFP choppers were far from perfect. It wasn't realistic.

I dont think you read my post. How or why should anyone have to swicth between K/b and joystick all the time in one game ? It worked perfectly in OFP so why fix it if it was working fine. Granted maybe they could have polished it up but flying rear view in a DOG FIGHT is nearly impossible now. Also as i said before, if you are flying low level, there is no way you can have a fight between 2 or more choppers.

Maybe we should also get a steering wheel and foot pedals for the cars and tanks??

[Metal Heart 0]

Uh, yeah... I don't quite recall saying that you should use a joystick. Are you implying that using joystick is a must in Arma? I wouldn't know since I haven't got it yet, not gonna bother buying some buggy, incomplete Czech or German language version online.

Anyways, for me, switching between joystick and keyb+mouse takes about 5 seconds max, a lot less than it takes to climb into a chopper, start the engine and have it lift off the ground. Move mouse pad a little right, keyboard a little left and put joystick in between.

[craigsa 0]

Well from what i understand, people are saying it is easier to fly with a stick. I have both and i never use my joystck - ever - unless playing a real simulator like fs2004 which i dont play anymore. I have the german version (hard copy and downloaded copy). I just dont think they have given us a good chopper model. Sorry but its my opinion.

[Maddmatt 1]

Yea, switching between keyboard and mouse doesn't take long if you have your joystick right on the table. I did it for OFP just fine.

As for using a steering wheel on cars and trucks - well if you really enjoy driving them around that much with their horrible handling in the game then go ahead . You don't need the precision as much since you usually just use them for transport, and moving a steering wheel is a lot more effort than a joystick.

[craigsa 0]

Yea, switching between keyboard and mouse doesn't take long if you have your joystick right on the table. I did it for OFP just fine.

As for using a steering wheel on cars and trucks - well if you really enjoy driving them around that much with their horrible handling in the game then go ahead   . You don't need the precision as much since you usually just use them for transport, and moving a steering wheel is a lot more effort than a joystick.

Actually, isnt Humvee used for attack / defense as well in the game not just for transport?  - they have tow launchers / .50cal guns. Moving a wheel and a joystick are more effort than having a k/b and mouse.

[Maddmatt 1]

Actually, isnt Humvee used for attack / defense as well in the game not just for transport? - they have tow launchers / .50cal guns. Moving a wheel and a joystick are more effort than having a k/b and mouse.

Moving a joystick is not alot of effort and takes a few seconds. It is more fun to fly with a joystick and more immersive. All you need to do is move the mouse to one side and lift the joystick over it to where the mouse was. I don't see the problem here.

A steering wheel on the other hand is more effort and does take more time to move - since it clamps to the desk.. I flew in OFP with a joystick and had no problem switching. I own both a steering wheel and a joystick so I know what moving them is like.

If the cars in game handled better maybe it would be fun with a steering wheel.

[Mr_Tea 0]

The car control is fine when i use the mouse.

The controls of all vehicles seems to be optimized for Keyboard + Mouse only.