Helicopters in AA

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Well, after a lot of practicing, I can say I like the new flight model, although, I think there should be a bigger altitude penalty for rolling past 60°-70° angles with more heavy helicopters, but hey, I'm no pilot. What also kind of bugs me is the jaw, to me, it feels odd, because it always tries to return to what was previously at, even at very low speeds.

[Jack-UK 0]

Yeah im warming to it too, just takes practise.. let go of the past.. :P Though i have to say ive not tried using attack choppers yet (im using the demo) so i dont know how good/useless it is in a combat chopper. I guess it might be quite difficult to engage in a chopper...

I may invest in a nice joystick later on in the game... but at the moment im having to fork out for a new pc :'(

[madmossy 0]

Im no expert at helo flying but I seem to have a little problem when it comes to rotating the helo.

When i hover, i use the rudder (X+C on keyboard) but the helo seems to bank left/right rather than rotate. Is there some trick to this or is just a flight model thing ?

[dm 9]

When i hover, i use the rudder (X+C on keyboard) but the helo seems to bank left/right rather than rotate. Is there some trick to this or is just a flight model thing ?

If I recall correctly, the rudder controls are linked to the banking controls by detault in ArmA. If you go into the options and re-map the rudder controls to not be linked to bank, then this problem should go away

[madmossy 0]

When i hover, i use the rudder (X+C on keyboard) but the helo seems to bank left/right rather than rotate. Is there some trick to this or is just a flight model thing ?

If I recall correctly, the rudder controls are linked to the banking controls by detault in ArmA. If you go into the options and re-map the rudder controls to not be linked to bank, then this problem should go away

Which controls exactly ? still not use to helo terminology :P

Thats what it looks like currently.

[Journeyman 0]

Well, after a lot of practicing, I can say I like the new flight model, although, I think there should be a bigger altitude penalty for rolling past 60°-70° angles with more heavy helicopters, but hey, I'm no pilot.

You’re right about that! In other sims that I fly FSX/X-Plane the chopper will slide away quickly on those sort of rolls. Also the choppers pivot from the base of the rotors instead of the C of G, which is wrong! Choppers should pivot from their centre of gravity. The response to input should be slower too with regards to roll, currently it is still too immediate. The helicopters also speed up and slow down much faster than they should in response to pitch input! They also bounce and do funny things when they hit objects such as trees instead of self-destructing like IRL!  

But hey, I've recently spent some time on the demo choppers and TBH I have had some reasonable fun with them! There is no other sim that I can fly choppers and then get out and drive tanks/cars/boats/walk as infantry etc. so I congratulate BIS on their efforts so far! Any improvements to the current flight model will be most welcome but it is not quite as bad as I had expected!  

Most urgent fix IMO should be to sort out the default controls. I already knew to change the default controls so I was on a head start! Anyone new here though will just jump in and crash then moan like f***k about the handling because of the way it is set up so badly. That could so easily be changed!  

[xnodunitx 0]

I don't know..the handling seemed very easy to me,I'm going to go in later and mess witht he controls and then pilot with a joystick to see just how bad I do.

[evil koala 6]

For those of you who like to fly low, watch the wires. The collision mesh for them go from peak to peak of the towers, and dont follow the sags. After finding this out the hard way, I took a screenshot to illustrate it.

http://img45.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=97887_wires_122_341lo.JPG

[franze 196]

Keep in mind that helicopter performance, as with fixed wing aircraft, increases or decreases on power-to-weight ratio. It's quite possible for a "heavy" cargo helicopter to perform aerobatic maneuvers if it has the capability to do so and is not loaded down by weight. Since ArmA most likely does not have the capability to dynamically simulate changing weights, we have to settle for a fixed weight ratio.

[sbsmac 0]

Realistic or not, I'm really enjoying the new flight model. I _like_ it that it takes practice. The following is from Robert Mason's "ChickenHawk", a memoir of his time as a Vietnam Huey pilot. It's a description of his first lesson.

Quote[/b] ]

"Next thing to do, now that you've got the cyclic down, is to let you try all the

controls at once. Think you're up to that, kid?"

"Yes, sir."

"Okay, you got it."

"I got it." The cyclic tugged, the collective pushed, and the pedals slapped my feet,

but for a brief moment I was in complete control. I was three feet off the ground

hovering in a real helicopter. A grin was forming on my sweaty face. Whoops. The

illusion of control ended abruptly. As I concentrated on keeping us over one spot

with the cyclic, we climbed. When I pushed the collective back down to correct, I

noticed we were drifting backward, fast. I corrected by pushing forward. Now I

noticed we were facing ninety degrees away from where we started. I corrected with

the pedals. Each control fought me independently. I forgot about having to push the

left pedal when I raised the collective. I forgot the cyclic-control lag. We whirled and

grumbled in a variety of confusing directions, attitudes and altitudes all at once.

There were absolutely too many things to control. The IP, brave man that he was, let

the ship lurch and roar and spin all over that field while I pushed the pedals, pumped

the collective, and swept the cyclic around, with little effect. I felt like I had a

handful of severed reins and a runaway team of horses heading for a cliff. I could not

keep the machine anywhere near where I wanted it.

"I got it." The IP took over the controls. The engine and rotor rpm went back to the

green. We drifted down from fifteen feet to three, pointed away from the sun and

back to the tree, and moved back to the spot where we had started. I felt totally

defeated.

"Well, it's true what they say about you all right, ace."

"What's that, sir?"

"You're a natural."

"A natural? Sir, I was all over the field."

"Don't worry about it, kid. We'll just keep practicing in smaller and smaller fields."

You can read a lot more from a sample chapter of the book. Highly recommended.

[BlackScorpion 0]

Hell, that sounds quite familiar.

As I admitted in the demo thread based on my experience, the choppers are quite tricky to fly, atleast the ligter sort (UH-60 compared to Mi-8), but it has it's... fun stuff. And as for the wires (sweet pic btw, Koala), gonna check that too.

Now, I'll try landing an UH-60 on a bridge whilst running at 3 fps...

[otester 0]

Realistic or not, I'm really enjoying the new flight model. I _like_ it that it takes practice. The following is from Robert Mason's "ChickenHawk", a memoir of his time as a Vietnam Huey pilot. It's a description of his first lesson.

Quote[/b] ]

"Next thing to do, now that you've got the cyclic down, is to let you try all the

controls at once. Think you're up to that, kid?"

"Yes, sir."

"Okay, you got it."

"I got it." The cyclic tugged, the collective pushed, and the pedals slapped my feet,

but for a brief moment I was in complete control. I was three feet off the ground

hovering in a real helicopter. A grin was forming on my sweaty face. Whoops. The

illusion of control ended abruptly. As I concentrated on keeping us over one spot

with the cyclic, we climbed. When I pushed the collective back down to correct, I

noticed we were drifting backward, fast. I corrected by pushing forward. Now I

noticed we were facing ninety degrees away from where we started. I corrected with

the pedals. Each control fought me independently. I forgot about having to push the

left pedal when I raised the collective. I forgot the cyclic-control lag. We whirled and

grumbled in a variety of confusing directions, attitudes and altitudes all at once.

There were absolutely too many things to control. The IP, brave man that he was, let

the ship lurch and roar and spin all over that field while I pushed the pedals, pumped

the collective, and swept the cyclic around, with little effect. I felt like I had a

handful of severed reins and a runaway team of horses heading for a cliff. I could not

keep the machine anywhere near where I wanted it.

"I got it." The IP took over the controls. The engine and rotor rpm went back to the

green. We drifted down from fifteen feet to three, pointed away from the sun and

back to the tree, and moved back to the spot where we had started. I felt totally

defeated.

"Well, it's true what they say about you all right, ace."

"What's that, sir?"

"You're a natural."

"A natural? Sir, I was all over the field."

"Don't worry about it, kid. We'll just keep practicing in smaller and smaller fields."

You can read a lot more from a sample chapter of the book. Highly recommended.

Couldn't that be the reason why they lost so many hueys?

[Jack-UK 0]

If you want fun, try flying an Mi17 LOW AND FAST

Great fun (so long as you got respawn! ive had some hilarious crashes..

If you want to survive i guess a littlebird is the best for that...

[blackdog~ 0]

I made a really nice video demonstrating how much I love this game for it's flight model and other fun things like that. I personally would download it just for the music.

Download it here! (17mb)

Merry Xmas

[Dallas 9]

Blackdog,

I hate to be the one telling you, especially on Christams Day, you suck at flying. Some are meant to chéfs in the finest cusines, while other belong out back washing the dishes. I think you're top notch grunt material, no offense, but maybe you should let piloting the aircrafts to the skilled.

P.S. Didn't get your conclusion about the lights. I saw both lights in your footage with and without NCGs?

[blackdog~ 0]

Hi, I was flying like that on purpose to illustrate the obvious most flaws I could in the flight model. Did you not notice how hard I was hitting the ground without even getting a scratch, or how I could "tumble" the helicopter after I landed it?

The lights -- I had NVG's on and when I took them off it faded from absolute pitch black until about 4 seconds later when I could see the lights fully.

[Stealth3 0]

This is a hardcore simulator blackdog, don't you know that? If you want to fly like rambo, go back to BF2.

No seriously nice video. I agree with you, but its sad to see this "simulator" turning into a joke.

[Dallas 9]

I think it's called adjusting your night vision. Even the green light from an image intensifier will affect you natural night vision. I think red light affects your night vision the least and is the hardest to detect at night.

As for the choppers, not every crash will automatically lead to an explosion. But I bet most of your crashes left your aircraft unusable. Crashing helicopters like than seems to drain the fuel at least and I've also noticed choppers will continue to lose 'health' over time, even if surviving the initial crash. Not all choppers crash in a ball of fire Hollywood style.

[evil koala 6]

I can agree, that when hitting the ground like that should pretty much destroy anything.. The same with trucks falling off a bridge should destroy them. And he's right about the night vision too. While the game is accurate, that it takes a few seconds to adjust your eyes to see in the dark, lights should still be easily visible.

With that said.. The flight model in ArmA is still far superior to OFP.

And to Stealth.. What part is a joke exactly?

[max power 21]

Stealth will say anything to hear himself speak... scratch that, whine. I think he thinks he will sound far more cynical if he uses hyperbole like comparing engine limits with cruel circumstances that are engineered to make him suffer for the enjoyment of others. It's an interesting joke he plays on himself- he manufactures a perfect world in his mind, seeks out evidence to support this belief, and then spends the rest of his time finding flaws and inadequacies. Take the word simulator in the tagline of the game for instance. It says something about being a modern combat simulator. Now, I take this to mean it simulates modern combat... not aircraft, not offroad driving, not submarines or spaceships... but combat dynamics. Stealth plays tricks on himself until the 'simulator' word means it simulates every air molecule and bolt on a helicopter.

I am so sick of the belly aching. It's not the error reporting, there's many to report... it's not even the criticism... it's the overbloated sense of entitlement and outrageous and constant cynicism. Is he going to keep this up for another 5 years until the next sequel? I'm sick of the empty bitching and I challenge Stealth to contribute something worthwhile and then to resist the urge to repeat himself 20 times per day.

[mattxr 9]

Yeah no one has to fly like that u know blackdog.. u can but most people choose not too.. :P now the instant not exploding may need done but yano

i could see the lights btw: takes a few seconds for your eyes to ajust.

[blackdog~ 0]

I'm not going to even continue bothering to push the fundamental flaws of the ArmA helo flight simulation. You all seem to be pretty stuck in the thinking that "oh, it's okay that you can nose dive a helicopter straight into the ground without dying, i mean, no one needs to fly that way!" and "oh, it's totally realistic the way that your helicopter sticks into the water so solidly with the rotors still turning and everything" and "oh i've seen helicopters do barrel rolls on the ground in real life before in fact i do it all the time".

I've worn NVG's before and like Evil Koala said the lights should be easily visible as soon as you take off your NVG's. NVG's (at least the type that I wore) are not all that hard on the eyes.

[Scrub 0]

That was impressively bad flying, you really had to work for those! After you rolled the chopper, was it was unflyable? IMHO, losing that functionality is good enough to change the outcome of the battle. It would be nice if you took damage or died in a non hollywood type crash like that.

[blackdog~ 0]

That was impressively bad flying, you really had to work for those! After you rolled the chopper, was it was unflyable? IMHO, losing that functionality is good enough to change the outcome of the battle. It would be nice if you took damage or died in a non hollywood type crash like that.

I think it was unflyable after the first roll, at which point the engine just "turned off". I rolled like two or three more times before the rotors came to a stop.

[deanosbeano 0]

you should learn to fly rebl style backdog~

its bloody hard but i mastered it only problem is theres no handbook on parking these things .

an instruction video on Deano flying and how to can be found

right here