release over steam

[Ukraineboy 0]

Just a reminder to everyone who hates Steam. If BIS releases it over Steam, that doesn't mean there wont be a box version!

By releasing over Steam, they can sell by preorders alone, as well as get plenty of money to advertise more and then get a real publisher to publish a box. It's a great idea.

[mattxr 9]

Just a reminder to everyone who hates Steam. If BIS releases it over Steam, that doesn't mean there wont be a box version!

By releasing over Steam, they can sell by preorders alone, as well as get plenty of money to advertise more and then get a real publisher to publish a box. It's a great idea.

i agree.

[rekrul 7]

Jumping in late here and will probably not contribute to the discussion with new stuff, I just want to say that I hate Steam with every fiber of my body. The fact that you have to be online and numerous updates is just one reason (well two).

However I'm totally for an online distribution of the game. However the problem with this is that many publishers won't accept this since it is in direct competition with their business so a middle-way has to be reached. If I can buy an online version from a distributor for less money than boxed, I'll jump on it right away as long as they guarantee that I can re-install the game at a later stage. I always lose the boxed sets anyways, and I never re-sell my games and living in Norway it would guarantee that I get it as soon as it is released. For me, an online distribution only has upsides and the market will move here anyways.

[sluggCDN 0]

On-line distribution doesn't necessarily mean Steam - I dislike Steam myself btw, too cumbersome. For example the Direct-to-Drive (www.direct2drive.com) purchase of G.R.A.W, was the easiest game purchase i ever had in my life!!! You pay online and then download an .exe installation file you get to keep. And I believe the game was available on their website before it was on shelves in local outlets in my area (vancouver); Canada doesn't have problems with logistics afaik. So that makes D2D a damn fast delivery process. For those of you who's into love-hate kinda relationship with OFP and need to install and re-install the game every week an .exe file is everything you need. With D2D you'll have it...

So I'm totally for electronic distribution. Even if it will show up in Steam I'll still buy it right away; but again an install .exe would be nice. These are my two cents worth...

[bitkari 0]

reasons FOR steam:

*excellent percentage return for each copy sold [compared to traditional retail model].

*provides an instant audience of fairly savvy FPS gamers.

*has worked well for red orchestra.

*steam updates system actually quite effective.

*protection system less irritating than some that need not be mentioned here...

reasons AGAINST steam:

*DRM/encryption is annoying.

*phoning home in order to play a game is annoying.

*publishing over steam could prejudice a retail publishing deal.

[GBee 0]

Online Distribution is fine by me as long as it isn't Steam or any wrapper type system. I'd be quite happy to download a simple, single file installer or even better an ISO!

Steam just complicates what should be a very simple process. In my case it makes running games on linux harder than it should be in addition to the huge bloat, the dial-home crap and not to mention the wasted CPU/mem resources of it running in the backgound. I don't care whether it was just 1mb and 1% CPU, it's just unnecessary.

[monkeyb 0]

Don't care how they release it just as long as they do so soon.

Steam, no steam, i couldn't give a donkeys, just finish it already.

[Dwarden 1124]

reasons FOR steam:

*excellent percentage return for each copy sold [compared to traditional retail model].

*provides an instant audience of fairly savvy FPS gamers.

*has worked well for red orchestra.

*steam updates system actually quite effective.

*protection system less irritating than some that need not be mentioned here...

reasons AGAINST steam:

*DRM/encryption is annoying.

*phoning home in order to play a game is annoying.

*publishing over steam could prejudice a retail publishing deal.

bitkari what DRM / encryption You have in minds ?

Red Orchestra Ostfront 41-45, Shadowgrounds. X2 and X3 are in completely extracted format (read like installed w/o Steam at all) in Steam\SteamApps\common\

phoning home is mainly reason of account auth and for MP reasons ...

GBee reason it runs on background are multiple from additional services like friends system, account authing, copy verification or anticheat etc ...

about linux issue - birds on roof sings song that's being worked out

[bl00k 0]

At the risk of being flamed here. I love Valve, I love Steam. I bought Half-Life 2 on Steam and have had no problems with it. I believe Steam is going to help the small Indie game makers out there emmensely. Steam is very convenient and proven to work. If ArmA were to be released on Steam and Retail, I would purchase it on Steam.

I don't understand everyone's hate towards Steam. I've had nothing but good experiences with it.

[berghoff 11]

I think it is just that you need Steam active in order to play the game.

[scruffy 21]

I don't like steam, too.

It makes me update when I don't want to and that's especially annoying on a slow connection.

When I bought RO (in the store, I like to have a box), instead of just starting to play after the installation I waited for steam to update, authenticate, check all files and then download the new update for RO for about 2 hours, not even on full speed but at about 75% of what I get out of my connection. Normally I would have just played v1.0 and downloaded the patch file full speed in the background and would've been ready an hour later and already in game.

The next day a friend of mine came around for a small LAN to test RO. He just bought it before he came around and guess what? Same procedure again, 2h later we finally got to play together. Normally I would have had the 100Mb patch already on my hdd.

After that I made a backup of my RO folder with steam. My cousin bought the game a week later and so he didn't have to do this all, too. And before you say this: On the LAN that would have been no help, making the backup takes a fair amount of time.

So now I've got a DVD with over 2Gb of a backup that became obsolete after the latest patch instead of a file of maybe 200Mb. I don't even know if that backup works if you have RO already installed and just need the patch.

Apart from that I also own HL2, but just because of Garrys Mod. We played it quite regularly back then and I remember all the times it didn't work because of a new update for steam (reenabling friends network anyone?). I don't even know if it's now possible to start a simple listen server without enabling the console and alter some config file with all that sv_lan crap.

What I want to say with these storys?

1. An auto-updater is nice, but not if it makes me update if I don't want to. I want the option to still play the old version if I want and have a simple patch file separately.

2. As already said, steam introduces a new level in which bugs can appear. Anyone who wants can try some localized versions of it, the german one was bad when I got it.

Just last week steam killed itself after an update on a friends pc, he had to reinstall everything (HL2 + GMod, RO) and download all patches again because he didn't make a 10Gb backup.

We all know the problems one can have with OFP alone, we don't need to cope with steam, too

I'm not against an internet distribution after all, I just think it could be made without steam. About some of the reasons for steam, the updates and protection: What about Joint Operations? It came without a copy protection but you couldn't play online without a valid key. There was an auto-updater but it could be ignored and patches were available witout it.

I don't know how well that worked, as I don't have that game, but maybe someone else can say something about it.

P.S.: Yes, you may get ArmA faster with steam, but then everybody tries to authenticate at the same time and nobody gets to play the first days

[deanosbeano 0]

i think it will be in a box anyway.

reason 1

The final release date is the day you walk into your local game store and say "Bloody hell that's Armed Assault on the shelf over there"

reason 2

[Dwarden 1124]

2scruffy :

since Steam started use new filesystem for 3rd party games where .gcf are no needed You can directly copy Your e.g. ROO folder @ another computer as files are extracted in \Common\ dir ...

1. like i said before you can disable that autoupdater (game propertiers , do not keep up2date automatically) ...

2. what types of bugs in localised versions ? like less gore because of German law and other countries laws? and i doubt if steam damages itself You loose all the files , usually all whats needed is get rid of blob config file and steam program related .cfg filse (like winui.gcf) or just reinstalling steam self ... if game .gcf and directories are untouched there is no need steam to redownload them ... something else is if they became damaged (hdd, cpu , memory errors by OC or hw issues) ....

from my own experience 2/3 of all hates @ Steam are just user errors ... and usually such people get problems with boxed version too ...

[mattxr 9]

NOOOOO PC/DVD Rom.. bugger, my dvd rom drive broke few weeks back and i have Å-25 in the bank

Lets hope i get paid at the start of next month

[sanctuary 19]

Dwarden, can you explain me why a legal customer that want to buy and get his game online should prefer the Steam method instead of just buying , getting the whole and complete game .exe from a secured URL given after the transaction, getting the patches all by himself manually , without having a single need of a 3rd party program running in the background

...or just without having to download a single 3rd party application to install the whole game .exe and the patches ?

... a method several other games are using to be sold online without steam.

Honestly, i don't see the interest for the customer in Steam over the other methods of selling games online ?

[scruffy 21]

2scruffy :

since Steam started use new filesystem for 3rd party games where .gcf are no needed You can directly copy Your e.g. ROO folder @ another computer as files are extracted in \Common\ dir ...

Yes, still a whole backup would be 9,85 Gb on my hard drive at the moment. I prefer having a separate patch file instead and still find it impractical.

1. like i said before you can disable that autoupdater (game propertiers , do not keep up2date automatically) ...

Yes, right. I have done this already. But that doesn't change the fact there is only the full update you can get. If you're stuck on a lan without internet access and everyone has a different version of the game it sucks. You have to copy GBs of data and steam folders and might overwrite something wrong.

2. what types of bugs in localised versions ? like less gore because of German law and other countries laws? and i doubt if steam damages itself You loose all the files , usually all whats needed is get rid of blob config file and steam program related .cfg filse (like winui.gcf) or just reinstalling steam self ... if game .gcf and directories are untouched there is no need steam to redownload them ... something else is if they became damaged (hdd, cpu , memory errors by OC or hw issues) ....

The smaller ones were buttons you can't read because the localised text was too long. But there were also some things not working properly, for example settings were not saved.

And yes, his whole steam wouldn't start after an update, just some cryptic error message. I don't know if it could have been solved easier, but he deleted it and reinstalled everything.

By the way, just yesterday I told my cousin about this and he told me about his friend. Every once in a while there comes a new steam update and after finishing it steam crashes. When he restarts steam the update starts again and crashes after 100% and so on. Everytime that happens he has to install steam again.

from my own experience 2/3 of all hates @ Steam are just user errors ... and usually such people get problems with boxed version too ...

That might probably be right, but having seen some of steams bugs myself the user is not always the problem.

As said before: There are different ways to distibute via internet, without steam. We can have enough problems with a game itself, no need to fix steams bugs and find workarounds, too.

I'm not really familiar with Joint Operations, but it had an easy auto-updater but singel patch files, required a valid key but had no copy protection and there are many different platforms for online distribution.

I still see no way why steam would have any advantage, but only some disadvantages.

[Dwarden 1124]

lot of people will name CD2drive as its most known digital internet distribution but there are even more problems than with Steam (due to CD2drive versions incompatible with normal retail patches, for MP games etc ... )

otherway is that BIS can use ANY digital distribution via download (including just ftp/http iso download

combined with sort of auth/key system i proposed in this thread http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....110;hl=

[nephilim 0]

SCREW STEAM IN THE INVENTORS HAIRY FAT A**!!!

[Scrub 0]

Ouch, that sounds like a bad experience issue to me.

I've just used Steam for HL1-mods and HL2. It's a bit wonky because of the online tinkering you have to do, or rather the computer takes time and does. But I haven't had too many problems.. Just frustrating is all.

[iccy 0]

Steam is the worst thing, I think the spanish flue is better then steam. all steam games are crappy just cuz they are on steam.

Kill steam and play the games as they are ment to be played

[Batstat 10]

I has used Steam since HL2, zero problems whatsoever. A far bigger problem is my kids wrecking my cd's.

I also has lost count of how many times one or more in our lan gatherings had to reinstall OFP, with the cd's and cd key at home or lost som other places.

Steam got my vote.

[BraTTy 0]

This topic still going? I never answered.

My answer is... what is steam?

Lol, I know what it is but I have never used it myself.

My oldest son uses(d) for Counterstrike I know

Does it cost money nowadays?

Nevertheless,I am a believer in online download.

One day when I wasn't thinking I bought BF2 (lol)

I loved it when Special Forces came out and I could buy and download the addon without leaving my house

I prefer the purchase to be a cdkey or account.Alot of places you can have email the cdkey/account info to you,even in the future

I think only single player games should incorporate cd/dvd based copy protection

Multi-player games should use the online account/cdkey type protection.That way they can leave the cd/dvd alone

And people could freely download the cd/dvd

On another note,I could understand people with slow connections may not want online download

[Dwarden 1124]

Not sure if anyone noticed but Dark Messiah seems to be first Steam hybrid game

retail box released w/o Steam

+

Steam version (needs Steam of course)

yet they both compatible for MP

such approach could solve problems for these arguing about Steam in boxed version = teh evil ...

4Bratty:

Steam itself cost nothing, just purchase of games via Steam store ...

[j w 0]

who would like to see that happen?

Oh god noes..

My .02

[[aps]gnat 28]

Quote from Placebo recently on the OGN forums.

Quote[/b] ]We're working on an online distribution system as well as the traditional boxes on shelves type publishing, so people have choice

"an online distribution system" could well mean "existing" or "new".