release over steam

[AliMag 0]

I find it amazing that Valve/Steam lovers cant understand the simple fact that people who are NOT playing online (single player only) does NOT want to be forced to have anything else than their original cd to play the game.

Why in the name of God should I need an internet connection, a Steam account and a software verifying the validity of my copy every time I decide to play alone on my computer at home or anywhere else (HL2 for example).

If we're only talking about distribution choice, no problem as long as you keep the possibility to buy a hard copy of the game so I can install/reinstall it when I want without asking an online authorisation to anyone.

If you want to play multiplayer, fine. Get your connection, your account and everything that goes with it and have fun. But please dont impose that to people that does NOT play multi. We, single players, are NOT concern about cheating or any other misbehaviour that you find on multi servers. There are much more single players in a game like OFP than HL2 and I can garantee you that the crowd they will lose (starting with me) will be much bigger than the one they lost with the HL2 catastrophy.

Cheers

[vektorboson 8]

You know what i'd like to see is a retail game released with a  usb key. Wanna see if anyone can find a workaround. What affects does such a key have on price anyway?

I wanna see how anyone couldn't find a workaround...

Do you really believe that such measures will prevent unauthorized copying?

You really want to be treated as a potential thief instead of "king customer"? You really want to be in a worse position than those who use cracked software?

I consider buying Galactic Civilizations 2 just for the fact that they don't use any anti-piracy measures (and because I am a great fan of Master Of Orion 2, and it looks pretty similar). And despite lacking copy-protection, the game is a commercial success! And the game comes from a goddamn independent developer!

If you're happy with it, go, use Steam, and be treated as a potential thief and cracker.

Quote[/b] ]

and i dont use the word technophobe lightly - the same arguments of oh i'll need a fast connection, or oh i dont want a program running that will take away from my 128mb ram

This is the 21st century people - get this, if you are one of those who think that steam would be a problem on your system you probably shouldnt be posting on this forum at all because you won't be able to play the game

So the 21st century consists of applications that may take away as many resources from my computer as they like, leaving little for the applications I actually want to use?

You think that it's OK, those applications are taking away CPU time, memory, hard disk capacity because they are assumed plentyfull?

Well, then it's OK to buy a new computer every half year because it can't cope anymore with the software because the programmers assume their app may take as many resources as available, since, well, it's 21st century. Everyone has an up to date computer, with plenty memory, plenty hard drive space, a superfast CPU.

So where should we stop? Should my app use 5MB? But hell, everyone has 1GB of RAM and there is probably no other memory intensive application running... So why don't use 10 MB, or 20?

[Dwarden 1125]

My idea:

BIS made own system as steam, which it will be distribute their games.

Games will have CDKEYs for play over internet.

Idea is fine , but Your forget the investments needed :

You need coders, servers, QA staff and so on to produce "own" content distribution system ...

i got no problem if BIS made it over e.g. Bittorrent or so

but for most companies is cheaper and FASTER to utilize something what's already done ...

[Dwarden 1125]

I find it amazing that Valve/Steam lovers cant understand the simple fact that people who are NOT playing online (single player only) does NOT want to be forced to have anything else than their original cd to play the game.

Why in the name of God should I need an internet connection, a Steam account and a software verifying the validity of my copy every time I decide to play alone on my computer at home or anywhere else (HL2 for example).

If we're only talking about distribution choice, no problem as long as you keep the possibility to buy a hard copy of the game so I can install/reinstall it when I want without asking an online authorisation to anyone.

If you want to play multiplayer, fine. Get your connection, your account and everything that goes with it and have fun. But please dont impose that to people that does NOT play multi. We, single players, are NOT concern about cheating or any other misbehaviour that you find on multi servers. There are much more single players in a game like OFP than HL2 and I can garantee you that the crowd they will lose (starting with me) will be much bigger than the one they lost with the HL2 catastrophy.

Cheers

another typical Steam myth ...

i can play HL2 single player w/o internet connection ...

yes in so called OFFLINE mode

[-kelet0r 0]

Quote[/b] ]So the 21st century consists of applications that may take away as many resources from my computer as they like, leaving little for the applications I actually want to use?

You think that it's OK, those applications are taking away CPU time, memory, hard disk capacity because they are assumed plentyfull?

Well, then it's OK to buy a new computer every half year because it can't cope anymore with the software because the programmers assume their app may take as many resources as available, since, well, it's 21st century. Everyone has an up to date computer, with plenty memory, plenty hard drive space, a superfast CPU.

So where should we stop? Should my app use 5MB? But hell, everyone has 1GB of RAM and there is probably no other memory intensive application running... So why don't use 10 MB, or 20?

well this takes the technophobe cake - you make it sound like your computer is actually on the verge of meltdown

what's wrong with you? open up your task manager right now and see how much ram all the applications are using - even just surfing the net you are probably using about half of all your virtual memory just like most people - now tell me are yonot able to currently play games?

by the sounds of it you wont be playing Arma - you do release that this is 2006 where an average gaming pc has a 3ghz processor and 1gb ram and a 128mb video card

if steam or similar programs were such a problem then nobody would be able to play halflife 2 for example which is one of the most system intensive games ever - check out the lost coast if you dont believe me

[XCess 0]

The same people likely to work on cracking updates of steam are likely to be the same people working on creating cheats. There are already plenty of those kind of people in CS:source and I really wouldn't want them polluting OFP.

Also the need for a credit card to download really isn't very nice, the games directories aren't as open as they are without steam, waaay too many sub menus to go through atleast (my memory of steam is a bit clouded from time).

I'd rather have it distributed with hard copies in the shops and ia internet order, and downloadably on a BIS website. No crappy steam for me please.

[vektorboson 8]

...

You just don't get it, do you?

If everyone thought the same way as you (especially the developers), if everyone thought that his system is average, then nobody would write memory saving, CPU-saving applications, that would run your virtual memory up to 100%, and your CPU, too.

Imagine Notebooks... Would be pretty nice to see that battery down in 5 minutes.

Think about it one minute: Why do so many people avoid the Norton Security suite? Why does it seem that many computers are not any faster than 10 years before?

Instead of getting back to code memory- and CPU-saving applications, we get stuff like Java and C#. Develop safe applications quickly, that are slow and memory hogs.

You can imagine that there are text editors that freeze because they need time to allocate memory?

Or think about this way: I've got a 6 GHz CPU with 4 GB of RAM and 512 MB of Video-RAM. Now I develop an addon that uses 10 4096x4096 textures, has 90000 triangles and lots of scripts running.

Now you with your shitty average Computer are complainig about a slide show when using that addon. I say: F*** off, buy a better comp, it's the year 200x, everyone should have a better rig by now.

So what do you do? You can't afford a new PC, so you try to terminate every unnecessary process and application, oh, but there are those applications you shouldn't turn off.

And now comes the twist: I could have done that addon with 2 2048x2048 textures, 8000 triangles and a few optimized scripts, without any noticeable difference.

But hey, it's the year 200x... And you are technophob because you can't afford a new PC every second week. Go eat your cake yourself, but don't promote complete unnecessary programs, that consider you as a potential thief.

I don't know what benefit you get from it; I know I wouldn't get any, but have to be afraid that it locks me out from playing the game that I have bought with the money I earned hard.

[-kelet0r 0]

but the point is that doing something as innocuous as browsing the web takes up loads of memory but i can still launch a game no problem with my average set up

if all these applications were such a problem then the IT world and the internet would have self destructed long ago - it's clear that used in moderation they are NOT

now steam running right now on my computer is using about 8mb of ram out of 512mb of virtual and 1gb of hard drive ram

do i have any issues with intensive games like FEAR, HL2, BF2, UT2003 or older games like deus ex or opf? No i do not

Having the advantages of a steam alike or steam itself means having it use just over 1% of my memory at any time is a tiny price to pay

[AliMag 0]

@Dwarden

Even if you intend to play sp only, you cannot install the game without a connection and an account!

That's even true for the demo - I know it sounds ridiculous but I'm not kidding - try it yourself!

Now, go to your computer that you have in your country house (without internet) and try to install the game or even the demo. Good luck!

typical Steam myth

Cheers

[-kelet0r 0]

you need an internet connection just once in order to get steam and thus activate a game

never want to go online again? no problem - play offline

typical steam myth #8765 debunked

[AliMag 0]

I see.

#LOOP

So in order to play on the computer in my country house I need to take it home, connect it to the internet, install the game, validation and account and take it back to the country house. All that to play single player. And if for any reason I need to format or change my hard drive...goto "LOOP"

In case you did not know, slavery is over in most of the civilize countries. If progress means everything better for the companies and all the problems for the customers then you just lose one of them.

You would make a good Steam/Valve representative (if it's not what you are). Nothing personnal

Cheers

[-kelet0r 0]

you dont have to buy the game

hence no slavery

Your problem is with Steam and yes I can see there being a problem in that regard - rare occurence that it is

i personally doubt that BIS would use Steam but if they were to use their own like EA use the Downloader or Joint Ops or like any other number of companies - then it would unlikely be forced upon the gamer but that doesnt mean that they shouldnt at least offer the option

[XCess 0]

75% against... 25% for... I think that says it all really.

BIS would loose quite a bit of money distributing ArmA over a system 75% of voters hate.

Besides, what's stopping them using a secure FTP where you buy a one time password and have to email for it to be re-opened if you have to re-format?

No crappy programme, just as safe as a CD distrubution (with proper install key security) and just as cheap.

Maybe a bit more labor intesive, but a few of the developers hang around here anyway helping people out.. I don;t think they'd mind opening and closing FTP accounts.

[-kelet0r 0]

now they wouldnt - they would make more money

explain to me how they would lose even a penny

[XCess 0]

Becuase less people would be willing to buy it over steam, not everybody has a credit card, and some simply refuse to waste resources on steam. Also,there's plenty of people cracking steam (if the current version isn't already cracked) so the steam security is already breached and worthless, and when steam is cracked you could download every single game on the steam list.

[-kelet0r 0]

Quote[/b] ]Becuase less people would be willing to buy it over steam, not everybody has a credit card, and some simply refuse to waste resources on steam. Also,there's plenty of people cracking steam (if the current version isn't already cracked) so the steam security is already breached and worthless, and when steam is cracked you could download every single game on the steam list.

so what would stop them then buying it in the shops? while at the same time BIS appeals to the second biggest games community in the world at the same time?

Cracked versions of steam arent exactly widespread - the number of cracked accounts today probably numbers in the 10s, not the 1000s and those are the result of phishing not hacking

(steam myth #8766 debunked)

the steam security is far from worthless - and neither is the anti cheat software it provides

you'd be hard pressed to find cheaters in any VAC protected online games today - counterstrike (once the haven of hackers) included

[XCess 0]

But you still need steam to install activate, and run the game. You may not need to be connected but you still need steam running in the background.. AFAIK.

And about cracked versions of steam.. do a quick search for cueSteam.

[ryankaplan 1]

i think, simply and truly steam is da pwnzor. I used to hate its guts because of super loading times, but now it's almost perfect. It provides alot more profits for bis for once. However, a steam only release should not even be mentioned. What i would do, not that i know much about marketing (actually, i did get a high A in the marketing section of Business Studies) is:

-Release over steam when the game is done ONLY to distribute, not to be played over steam like CS or DOD.

-When they have found a good publisher, start selling hard copies of the game.

Steams advantages:

Bigger share of the revenues made by selling of the game goes to BIS. Automatic Advertising to a large amount of players via steam(i believe there is a realism lover in every CS n00bpwnzor, somewhere inside). Having basicly the best anti-cheat and anti-piracy games software in the world. And ofcourse the fact that we won't have to wait for BIS to find a publisher.

Just look at red orchestra and what they have achieved. And they are only a mod team (or were anyway).

[Madus_Maximus 0]

I'm all for a Steam LIKE (note: LIKE) system, but NOT Steam itself. A system that can update things for you, let you organise mod folders, decide which mods to launch and blah blah, sort of like OFP Watch, only official. Maybe they could have some guidelines for anti-cheat meassures for user made content of it's to be played on "official" servers so to speak.

I don't want a system that requires you to have the net in order to activate it, play offline, or update your "tickets" (like Steam. If you've not logged on for more than 30 days you can't play anything through it).

Personally I'd be happy with a DVD/CD physical release, a regular activation key like we have now, and a little utility that allows you to handle our addons and run an auto-update, then give you the CHOICE to download it, not like it is with Steam where it does it on it's own and they don't even give you any patch notes or update the "Updates" page for months on end.

Something to allow you to control servers, like built in admin tools and a wizard for setting a dedicated server up or something. Basically a single utility combining everything in one place. I don't really care for downloading the whole game online, plus that requires so many expensive systems in place to ensure they don't go bankrupt when something goes wrong and people sue them.

Personally I'd rather have a well advertised game on DVD/CD with an auto-update utility, OFP Watch like thing (can check what a server is using then find mirrors from a master server list) and a well supported community.

[-kelet0r 0]

But you still need steam to install activate, and run the game. You may not need to be connected but you still need steam running in the background.. AFAIK.

And about cracked versions of steam.. do a quick search for cueSteam.

similarly often with games they have to registered before they can be played - same difference only with a steam alike or steam itself you get a whole host of advantages

[sputnik monroe 102]

Quote[/b] ]similarly often with games they have to registered before they can be played - same difference only with a steam alike or steam itself you get a whole host of advantages

I've never played a game in my entire life that you had to register in order to play it offline. Any game with such a "feature" will not receive my hard earned cash.

Steam is nothing but a disadvantage. You shouldn't be required to have broadband access to play a game offline.

[AliMag 0]

@Sputnik Monroe

Dont waist your time buddy.

I finally understand that the current topic is simply a promotion for online distribution and activation.

The disadvantages for the customers are so obvious that only a blind man or someone paid to not see will continue to argue.

All the so call advantages are for the distributors and for the distributors only at the expense of the customer's freedom and ease of use. The tenacity that is shown here by some participants to force that thing down our throat speaks for itself. No customer in is right mind would defend such a position.

This is the OFP crowd not the HL2 or Battlefield one. We dont need any big brother to update or patch the game automatically for us. We are not 14 years old kids that will accept any compromise just to play a game.

I did not buy HL2 because of Steam and as you so well said 'Any game with such a "feature" will not receive my hard earned cash'.

Cheers

[-kelet0r 0]

what a constructive response

did you ever stop and think that we might actually be arguing in favour of digital distribution because wait for it....it actually benefits the player and the consumer

Quote[/b] ]The disadvantages for the customers are so obvious that only a blind man or someone paid to not see will continue to argue.

quite frankly almost all the hate in this thread seems to be directed towards Steam - it is in many ways unique to other methods of digital distribution - and yet the perceived flaws have been proved false one after the other

Quote[/b] ]This is the OFP crowd not the HL2 or Battlefield one. We dont need any big brother to update or patch the game automatically for us. We are not 14 years old kids that will accept any compromise just to play a game.

ah yes the old chestnut - ofp players are better than anyone else

i think BIS shudders everytime that sentiment is expressed

explain how having automatic updates applied is a bad thing?

Quote[/b] ]I did not buy HL2 because of Steam and as you so well said 'Any game with such a "feature" will not receive my hard earned cash'.

a proud technophobe if ever i saw one - 'i refuse to use anything new that might enhance my game experience'

ridiculous

[monkeyb 0]

Steam is intrusive, constantly updating and a pain in the a***.

Until there is a better alternative I won't be using it for anything,.

[AliMag 0]

@$kelet0r

It seems that 75.65% of the people answering that topic agree with me. That makes a lot of 'technophobes' dont you think so?

Keep the spirit man

Cheers