USA Politics Thread - *No gun debate*

[pviera11 10]

That's not my decision to make old son.

There are however good practises gun owners can adopt to limit the dangers of domestic violence.

There is the basic key guards you can place in your gun if you have teenage children, although in my opinion a child will find the key soon enough if he really wants your gun.

Also, you can keep you gun locked in it's cabinet whenever you are not using it.

Doing this has become the law in my country.

I used to be able to store my gun under the bed so that I would have it readily to hand in any emergency, but the rules have changed.

The purpose of this is to stop people from instinctively reacting to a situtation by grabbing a ready weapon.

To force them to consciously go to the cabinet and get their gun.

This simple system turns any weapons use from "hot blooded" to "cold clooded". It involves an act of pre-meditation in the eyes of our law.

So your saying if someone breaks into your house you shouldn't be allowed to shoot them? Also lets put this into reality, you are sleeping in bed, you hear someone break in downstairs, oh shit your gun is in the basement because the government wont let you keep it under your pillow or under your bed, or wherever else. Well that means you would have to go past the intruder downstairs, open up your safe, get out the weapon, open the next safe with the ammo, load the weapon up, and shoot the criminal, or yell at him to get down on the ground and call the cops? Or lets put it my way, I'm sleeping i hear someone break in downstairs, i grab my gun from next to me go downstairs, force the guy onto the ground, and call the cops, or ill just shoot him dead depends if he is armed or not. You people don't take reality into any subject at all you just live in a make believe world where any ideas you make actually work in reality.

[Baff1 0]

That's the law in my country, yes.

And while in the circumstance you describe that is clearly a downside, the upside is, most shootings do not involve burglars, they involve the other people you live with.

You see that's the reality. The fantasy is that you will use the gun to protect yourself from criminals, the reality is that more people use them against their family members.

As gun owner, it's something you should be acutely aware of.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Baff1

[STALKERGB 6]

To steer the topic in a slightly different direction...

What do people think about the Dove World Outreach Center's plans to burn copies of the Koran on September 11th? Seems like a stupid and inflammatory stunt to be honest.

[maddogx 13]

To steer the topic in a slightly different direction...

What do people think about the Dove World Outreach Center's plans to burn copies of the Koran on September 11th? Seems like a stupid and inflammatory stunt to be honest.

They seem to be another bunch of loonies, similar to the Westboro Baptist Church. The world would definitely be a better place without them, but failing that, simply ignoring them is probably the next best thing...

[froggyluv 2136]

*Sigh*

Another sad and dangerous religious fanatic who's church sports the sign "Islam is the Devil!"...

should read "Extremism is the Devil". Pretty sure if the real Jesus did come back today, they'd burn him as well for being a long-haired, peace-luvin, working immigrant who hangs with the rabble and gives free health care...

[maddogx 13]

should read "Extremism is the Devil". Pretty sure if the real Jesus did come back today, they'd burn him as well for being a long-haired, peace-luvin, working immigrant who hangs with the rabble and gives free health care...

[Wolfrug 0]

To steer the topic in a slightly different direction...

What do people think about the Dove World Outreach Center's plans to burn copies of the Koran on September 11th? Seems like a stupid and inflammatory stunt to be honest.

I'm confused: how is this act even legal? Haven't you got laws against this kind of shit? In Finnish law it comes out in translation as "ethnic agitation":

(Criminal Code (Rikoslaki), Ch 11, section 10):

Section 10 - Ethnic agitation

A person who spreads statements or other information among the public where a certain national, ethnic, racial or religious group or a comparable population group is threatened, defamed or insulted shall be sentenced for ethnic agitation to a fine or to imprisonment for at most two years.

I'm not sure (i.e I'm not a lawyer) if this is the part of the law that'd be applied, there are plenty of others I think that would fit, but this is the one I came to think of at first. I mean - you HAVE to have some kind of applicable laws over there in the land of the free etc. which protects against this kind of bullshit? Burning books alone is a crime against humanity; burning RELIGIOUS books with the express intent of agitating a certain religious group...egh.

Please note, I'm aware the church in question has like 50 members and isn't exactly representative of the American public as a whole. My gripe here is more with the apparent lack of laws that provide any kind of basic protection against this kind of insanity.

Regards,

Wolfrug

[Bavator 8]

Another sad and dangerous religious fanatic who's church sports the sign "Islam is the Devil!"...

They sport a book, too : 'Islam Is Of The Devil'.

Just google their homepage for your "WTF!?"-moment of the day.

[HG_Havok 10]

Funny .....when folks burn the American flag it "is their right to do so." But when an American wants to burn the koran it's " oh ... how could they do that?? Isn't there laws against it???" FLOL!!!

Just wish I had thought of it first, but seems like a good thing to do on the 4th.

[mosh 0]

I agree it's a stupid and insensitive act and just a publicity stunt... but it's legal, as it should be. It's just a book.

I'd like to burn one myself, but I'm a little more sensitive to other people's religions and would not do it.

[STALKERGB 6]

I'm confused: how is this act even legal? Haven't you got laws against this kind of shit? In Finnish law it comes out in translation as "ethnic agitation":

Well I think most countries have laws against insighting racial/religious hatred, not sure how the US law is set up around this issue.

The problem with stuff like this is that the extremists already hate us so no change there but more moderate muslims can see this as just a sign of hostility towards islam in general (seeing as the Koran isn't exclusive to just islamic terrorists). It just adds fuel to the damn fire...

Certainly General Patraeus thinks all this will do is increase hostilities.

As you can see, the afghans have taken this well.... Clearly they are all fans of Pastor Terry Jones.

Edited September 8, 2010 by STALKERGB

[Cotala Studios 10]

In the US we call this a hate crime. Unfortunatly, we are comprised of 50 seperate states, and there is always a grey area on this sort of matter whether the federal or state government has jurisdiction. Since this is taking place in the south, the state government will turn a blind eye, but I imagine the feds don't like it so much. Obviously the majority of Americans don't hold this moronic bigoted view of Muslims. Also, we have a freedom of assembly and speech, which means usually something can only be considered a hate crime if it construes physical violence. It sucks, but it is the problem when a country made for white anglo-saxon protestants suddenly has a shitload of minorities showing up

@ Froggyluv

should read "Extremism is the Devil". Pretty sure if the real Jesus did come back today, they'd burn him as well for being a long-haired, peace-luvin, working immigrant who hangs with the rabble and gives free health care...

__________________

Well, they also wouldn't like the fact that he would be middle eastern in the first place :)

Edited September 8, 2010 by Cotala Studios

[HyperU2 11]

General Petraeus says the burning will endanger our troops, because they're so safe right now.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

General Petraeus says the burning will endanger our troops, because they're so safe right now.

Those Rules of Engagement he put forward resemble picnic tips & tricks more than anything.

[froggyluv 2136]

General Petraeus says the burning will endanger our troops, because they're so safe right now.

Oversimplification.

The goal of the Americans is not to kill as many muslims as possible, it is to root out their miltant fanatics who pose a threat to the region and beyond all the while trying to build a bridge with the common people. the war is against these people, not Islam itself. To desecrate that which they deem holy while stating that we are there to help is counter-productive to our cause and that inherently endangers our troops.

Those Rules of Engagement he put forward resemble picnic tips & tricks more than anything.

Yeah ok. I trust our General far more in these matters than some stockpiling software pirate ;)

[pviera11 10]

In the US we call this a hate crime. Unfortunatly, we are comprised of 50 seperate states, and there is always a grey area on this sort of matter whether the federal or state government has jurisdiction. Since this is taking place in the south, the state government will turn a blind eye, but I imagine the feds don't like it so much. Obviously the majority of Americans don't hold this moronic bigoted view of Muslims. Also, we have a freedom of assembly and speech, which means usually something can only be considered a hate crime if it construes physical violence. It sucks, but it is the problem when a country made for white anglo-saxon protestants suddenly has a shitload of minorities showing up

Lol so you just basically said it sucks that people can burn qurans and bibles, and show other acts of discrimination a peaceful way without being charged with something? I guess you also supported the free speech zones in the democratic convention.

[Wolfrug 0]

Funny .....when folks burn the American flag it "is their right to do so." But when an American wants to burn the koran it's " oh ... how could they do that?? Isn't there laws against it???" FLOL!!!

Just wish I had thought of it first, but seems like a good thing to do on the 4th.

I'm almost positive it has to be a crime in the US to burn your own flag. It is, isn't it? Come on, it's got to be :confused:

Once again, manhandling the Finnish flag in Finland will get you fined (in fact, I believe whenever you're hoisting it into your own personal flagpole out back, you're not even supposed to let it touch the ground. But yeah).

Burning flags is about as subtle a protest as bashing someone's face in while shouting racial epithets, and should be punishable under the same laws. Once again, I ask you: haven't you got laws against this kind of thing?

And showing a picture of someone burning flags or whatever as some kind of justification is not helping your cause: if the 'enemy' suddenly started cannibalizing your soldiers or fed-exing their heads back to their spouses, does that mean 'we' should start doing the same thing? This isn't 1790 BC, you know.

Regards,

Wolfrug

[pviera11 10]

Yeah ok. I trust our General far more in these matters than some stockpiling software pirate ;)

If you trust a government that plans to kill its own people, and does so frequently, then you are an idiot.

---------- Post added at 04:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 PM ----------

I'm almost positive it has to be a crime in the US to burn your own flag. It is, isn't it? Come on, it's got to be :confused:

Once again, manhandling the Finnish flag in Finland will get you fined (in fact, I believe whenever you're hoisting it into your own personal flagpole out back, you're not even supposed to let it touch the ground. But yeah).

Burning flags is about as subtle a protest as bashing someone's face in while shouting racial epithets, and should be punishable under the same laws. Once again, I ask you: haven't you got laws against this kind of thing?

And showing a picture of someone burning flags or whatever as some kind of justification is not helping your cause: if the 'enemy' suddenly started cannibalizing your soldiers or fed-exing their heads back to their spouses, does that mean 'we' should start doing the same thing? This isn't 1790 BC, you know.

Regards,

Wolfrug

Yes we have laws against burning the flags but it is never enforced, at least not up here in the north. Go to any hippie peace loving protest, and you can see at least 10 of our flags burning. I also agree that because one country does something you do the same back, burning their flags, their books, etc, is stupid. But to make it illegal to burn a quran, a bible, or some other countries flag in your own country is ridiculous. If i hate the communists, and want to burn all their books there should not be a law against it.

---------- Post added at 04:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:46 PM ----------

That's the law in my country, yes.

And while in the circumstance you describe that is clearly a downside, the upside is, most shootings do not involve burglars, they involve the other people you live with.

You see that's the reality. The fantasy is that you will use the gun to protect yourself from criminals, the reality is that more people use them against their family members.

As gun owner, it's something you should be acutely aware of.

Right there again, It involves other people you live with. What are you going to do once guns are banned, and people start using knifes? you going to get registrations for knifes now, and when to many murders happen with those, those are banned to. So now people are killing each other with their bare hands, are you going to cut off everyone's hands? You can ban everything you want, but in the end. When someone wants to kill someone they will do it one way or another.

[froggyluv 2136]

If you trust a government that plans to kill its own people, and does so frequently, then you are an idiot.

Oh silly me, i should trust pviera11 over the men and women who lead, serve, and die fighting :p

And if you really believe that our General plans to kill his own people, what might you be that chooses to live in such a country. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[pviera11 10]

Oh silly me, i should trust pviera11 over the men and women who lead, serve, and die fighting :p

And if you really believe that our General plans to kill his own people, what might you be that chooses to live in such a country. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I said our government, not our general, i never said our own men or women would kill us, they can easily call in NATO, I'm not going to move out of a country i love. I just dislike the people, its simple to get rid of the people then find a new country. Don't like it, i got the bigger guns. Also you don't know what my military history is or was.

[froggyluv 2136]

I said our government, not our general, i never said our own men or women would kill us, they can easily call in NATO, I'm not going to move out of a country i love. I just dislike the people, its simple to get rid of the people then find a new country. Don't like it, i got the bigger guns. Also you don't know what my military history is or was.

Lolwut?!?

First of all, my original post was that I trust our General more than that poster.... Yet you responded by calling me an idiot for trusting our Government -you made the correlation, not I son.

As for the rest of your rant, I haven't the slightest what your talking about -call NATO...who?..what?

You got big guns -awesome! So what. Plenty here have miltary history, doesn't trump you up in any way. Why exactly are you so scared of our Government?

[zigzag 0]

It cant be easy living in fear like you do pviera11

[pviera11 10]

It cant be easy living in fear like you do pviera11

Fear? never. I just train every day, and stock pile weapons, just like a normal life. I don't have to live in fear because i know what they are going to do, and when things do go bad ill be prepared and you wont, if it never happens then thank god. But I'm not going to worry about it every single day, just from watching the news you can tell when something is going to happen.

[zigzag 0]

Fear? never. I just train every day, and stock pile weapons, just like a normal life. I don't have to live in fear because i know what they are going to do, and when things do go bad ill be prepared and you wont, if it never happens then thank god. But I'm not going to worry about it every single day, just from watching the news you can tell when something is going to happen.

Like I said, living in fear and stock pileing weapons

[pviera11 10]

Like I said, living in fear and stock pileing weapons

Again, what fear do i have in my life? If you cant name what i fear, then i do not live in fear. Do i fear the government? Nope, ill just fight when the time comes.