USA Politics Thread - *No gun debate*

[froggyluv 2130]

So you think the only threat is stray bullets and having a gun would somehow stop them from hitting you?

I'm saying that if you are indeed correct in that criminals only shoot other criminals, then there is no need for everyday citizens to own guns short of hunting.

[HyperU2 11]

I'm saying that if you are indeed correct in that criminals only shoot other criminals, then there is no need for everyday citizens to own guns short of hunting.

I said many, not all, of our homicides are criminals killing each other.

[Baff1 0]

Most of ours are domestic crime. Husband and wife... parents and children...

Criminal on criminal doesn't happen very much here.

[froggyluv 2130]

"Everyone here earns there bullets..."

Sounds like you meant most if not all. Either way, if your numbers are correct, Law Enforcement can handle the small fraction of non-criminal victims.

[HyperU2 11]

Yeah we get a fair amount of domestic too, but in those cases it seem that death was inevitable no matter what the weapon. Basically if you're not in a relationship and not a criminal you're pretty damn safe lol.

"Everyone here earns there bullets..."

Sounds like you meant most if not all. Either way, if your numbers are correct, Law Enforcement can handle the small fraction of non-criminal victims.

By "everyone here" I was referring to my nearby city and its homicide numbers, not the whole US. Ten out of eleven homicides this year were people who were engaged in criminal activity.

Edited September 3, 2010 by HyperU2

[Baff1 0]

I put it to you that if I am strangling my wife to death in the heat of moment, I have about 3 minutes to calm down but if I have a gun in my hand she is instantly dead before I have time to regain my temper.

The weapon you use makes a big difference. The easier it is to do something, the more the likelihood of that event occouring.

I use a ticklestick as preference for my domestic violence. (And a furry glove). So far she has survived all of my tirades.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

I put it to you that if I am strangling my wife to death in the heat of moment, I have about 3 minutes to calm down but if I have a gun in my hand she is instantly dead before I have time to regain my temper.

I would say you need counseling and probably a few years in the slammer. Secondly, you've never held a gun in your life if you say such things like that.

Finally, gawd damn peasants. There is an apparent parents-kids disconnection and further anti-social behavior symptoms, which culminate in the specimen known as 'chav', so don't go export your experiences onto others. :icon_eek:

P.S. Baff1, from past discussions, I've raised my suspicions that you might be practicing Islam, which would explain quite a bit. If I am incorrect, I apologise, otherwise - case closed.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Iroquois Pliskin

[sparks50 0]

Baff: I have no idea what motivates wife beaters, but surely there must be some sort of middle ground between domestic violence and murder.

What about kitchen knives? Why is kitchen knives not common in domestic when it clearly is a very effective tool to quickly kill someone(at least more effective than strangling)

It doesn't make any sense. Some of the most armed countries in the world(Like Norway) are also the safest.

Edited September 3, 2010 by sparks50

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Baff: I have no idea what motivates wife beaters, but surely there must be some sort of middle ground between domestic violence and murder.

What about kitchen knives? Why is kitchen knives not common in domestic when it clearly is a very effective tool to quickly kill someone(at least more effective than strangling)

In the UK, once firearms were banned, knives were the next most favourite weapon of domestic murder. They probably still are.

You have one life, I don't give a shit about your heavens with 72 virgins or eternal peace on earth (lower-case 'e').

I'm not going to do business with a man that doesn't have self-respect and the concept of self-defense.

One of the quotes from the obsolete scriptures that I actually like is as follows:

If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

[HyperU2 11]

Sometimes I'm surprised that door locks are legal in some countries, it seems they don't want to inconvenience criminals at all.

[Laertes 10]

Most of ours are domestic crime. Husband and wife... parents and children...

Criminal on criminal doesn't happen very much here.

You've obviously never been to Moss Side :p

Sometimes I'm surprised that door locks are legal in some countries, it seems they don't want to inconvenience criminals at all.

FPDR

That's an inconceivably stupid statement.

[HyperU2 11]

FPDR

That's an inconceivably stupid statement.

I find arresting a homeowner who chased a burglar inconveivably stupid, but thankfully in the case of my statement it was just a joke.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-474025/Burglar-dies-falling-floor-window-following-confrontation-homeowner.html

[-Snafu- 77]

Check out the UK, I think you need a license for a pepper spray. Then, they wonder why lorries drive up to their garage and steal that $30k bike in broad daylight.

'Civilised', my ass. Gawd damn peasants. :icon_eek:

What is it with you and your posts?

Are you an acid?

They're odd, only occasionally relate to the topic and hardly make sense.

The high and mighty attitude is also funny considering you torrented OA to get your hands on it early.

The UK is fine the way it is thank you very much.

[Baff1 0]

Baff: I have no idea what motivates wife beaters, but surely there must be some sort of middle ground between domestic violence and murder.

What about kitchen knives? Why is kitchen knives not common in domestic when it clearly is a very effective tool to quickly kill someone(at least more effective than strangling)

.

Typically people murdered by knives are stabbed upwards of 20 times, it's not that easy apparently. But yes a person with access to a knife is more likely to kill someone than a person without access to a weapon.

The same logic applies.

In the same way a person with access to gun is more likely to kill someone than a person with a knife.

The bulk of all murders occour during domestic violence.

Yes there is a difference between beating your wife and shooting her. Or perhaps her shooting you and her beating you even.

The key to it however is loss of control. Loss of temper. An out of control person with a gun is more likely to kill than an out of control person without one. Typically when you are seeing red, you are only doing so for a short period of time. With a gun in your hand, momentarily is long enough to do irrepairable damage while for a brit armed only with his teapot... things take a little while longer to get the same results. The opportunity to stop and correct yourself, is larger.

@ Iroiquios

I'm a white middle class Englishman, I'm not overtly religious but I was raised Church of England old bean. I'm not a muslim, neither do I care if anyone else is, not being American, muslims aren't a real bugbear for me.

I own 4 guns and have held a lisence to do so for the last 26 years.

---------- Post added at 06:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 PM ----------

I find arresting a homeowner who chased a burglar inconveivably stupid, but thankfully in the case of my statement it was just a joke.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-474025/Burglar-dies-falling-floor-window-following-confrontation-homeowner.html

Tell me about it, I got arrested for firing a warning shot at thieves in my garden last week.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1305347/Villager-arrested-firing-warning-shots-gypsy-children.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

[froggyluv 2130]

The key to it however is loss of control. Loss of temper. An out of control person with a gun is more likely to kill than an out of control person without one. Typically when you are seeing red, you are only doing so for a short period of time. With a gun in your hand, momentarily is long enough to do irrepairable damage while for a brit armed only with his teapot... things take a little while longer to get the same results. The opportunity to stop and correct yourself, is larger

.

QFT!

I remember a few years ago in Texas when there was some traffic altercation with one man approaching another man's car in anger over something trivial. The frightened man in the car shot and killed the big mean man and was actually acquitted of wrongdoing. If there was no gun or god forbid, some reason, the frightened man could have, I don't know, drove away....?

[NoQuarter 0]

British Cutlery, circa 2009.

Teapot modifications sure to follow.;)

[HyperU2 11]

British Cutlery, circa 2009.

Teapot modifications sure to follow.;)

And they better be short knives.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4581871.stm

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

The high and mighty attitude is also funny considering you torrented OA to get your hands on it early.

The UK is fine the way it is thank you very much.

Should I report you for personal attacks & off-topic? Nah, you're not the one on the high horse of morals here, peasant, since I didn't torrent OA.

Do run along, ole chap.

---------- Post added at 10:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 PM ----------

.

QFT!

I remember a few years ago in Texas when there was some traffic altercation with one man approaching another man's car in anger over something trivial. The frightened man in the car shot and killed the big mean man and was actually acquitted of wrongdoing. If there was no gun or god forbid, some reason, the frightened man could have, I don't know, drove away....?

More like drive him over.

When you quote instances where firearm use leads to murder, you always have a person who is "strangling his wife in the heat of the moment", or "one man approaching another man's car in anger over something trivial" -- for your information, such people shouldn't be walking with legal firearms in the first place.

The arguments are so trivial that there will be no ban or restrictions of firearms or ammunition via legislation in the US.

Reduce the worlds population by 75%, reinforce existing laws to the letter, introduce a tax on 3rd child in the family etc, etc - then maybe, we could talk about abolishing the 2nd Amendment and weapons of warfare generally. Come back, you know, when the world is a calmer, more pleasant place to be in, wherever you may roam.

---------- Post added at 10:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 PM ----------

British Cutlery, circa 2009.

Teapot modifications sure to follow.;)

This is a sad state of affairs. No further research is needed, just sad.

[froggyluv 2130]

More like drive him over.

Wrong. Walk away. Just because someone is yelling at you in public doesn't give you the right to be a total puss and try to take their life.

When you quote instances where firearm use leads to murder, you always have a person who is "strangling his wife in the heat of the moment", or "one man approaching another man's car in anger over something trivial" -- for your information, such people shouldn't be walking with legal firearms in the first place.

The arguments are so trivial that there will be no ban or restrictions of firearms or ammunition via legislation in the US.

Weren't you the same guys who said your buddies were stockpiling ammo as we speak -lol!

Reduce the worlds population by 75%, reinforce existing laws to the letter, introduce a tax on 3rd child in the family etc, etc - then maybe, we could talk about abolishing the 2nd Amendment and weapons of warfare generally. Come back, you know, when the world is a calmer, more pleasant place to be in, wherever you may roam.

So your saying you'd be okay with eradicating 75% of the Worlds population before giving up the 2nd amendement - yeah ok... Lets do like a Logan's Run, hit 30 and we shoot you for sport :p

Would you and your buddies be willing to join that 75% so that the rest of us could live in peace?

[mosh 0]

I put it to you that if I am strangling my wife to death in the heat of moment, I have about 3 minutes to calm down but if I have a gun in my hand she is instantly dead before I have time to regain my temper.

The weapon you use makes a big difference. The easier it is to do something, the more the likelihood of that event occouring.

No point even talking to you. YOU should not own a gun. You need help.

Edited September 4, 2010 by Mosh
why even respond

[-Snafu- 77]

Should I report you for personal attacks & off-topic? Nah, you're not the one on the high horse of morals here, peasant, since I didn't torrent OA.

Do run along, ole chap.

Release date for OA was June 29th but many people in Germany received their copy early. You were banned at the time. It's unlikely you flew to Germany.

Well, you're posts are weird. Odd, not always on topic, often goes around whatever point you're trying to make, often insulting, sarcastic, high use of the word 'peasant' etc.

In the UK we don't have a gun ownership culture and we're fine with that. The US does and that's fine. We're happy with the way things are. People can defend themselves. It's perfectly acceptable within the law. Read:

http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/householders.html

Two cases in here that demonstrate that:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/man-who-killed-intruder-cleared-of-murder-1915234.html

Another:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5889125.ece

Oh look another:

http://www.thisiswesternmorningnews.co.uk/news/Jury-clears-man-intruder-s-murder/article-1909838-detail/article.html

These stories don't get the same attention as the doomsday ones. They just don't sell as much papers.

Edited September 4, 2010 by Snafu

[Baff1 0]

No point even talking to you. YOU should not own a gun. You need help.

On the contrary. If you are not willing to face up to the responsability of gun ownership. If you are not mature enough to face up to the dangers and realities of it, if you are unable to accept the lethality of a gun and recognise the inability to retract the split second decisions that can be made while handling one, you shouldn't have access to one.

Domestic murder is the most common form of murder in your country and mine. Every gun owner should be supremely aware of what causes a situation like this to get out of hand.

You can discuss the glamour of having a shoot out with criminals all you like. Make like you are a big big man with your gun their to protect you and your family from danger. But having a gun in the house places your family in greater danger from each other than any criminal.

This is not something a responsable gun owner is able to ignore.

[Laqueesha 474]

British Cutlery, circa 2009.

Only in Blighty!

[tacticalnuggets 24]

On the contrary. If you are not willing to face up to the responsability of gun ownership. If you are not mature enough to face up to the dangers and realities of it, if you are unable to accept the lethality of a gun and recognise the inability to retract the split second decisions that can be made while handling one, you shouldn't have access to one.

Domestic murder is the most common form of murder in your country and mine. Every gun owner should be supremely aware of what causes a situation like this to get out of hand.

You can discuss the glamour of having a shoot out with criminals all you like. Make like you are a big big man with your gun their to protect you and your family from danger. But having a gun in the house places your family in greater danger from each other than any criminal.

This is not something a responsable gun owner is able to ignore.

And I'm sure your the judge to determine who can and cannot own a gun? Its why I have little respect left for the governments judgment, it just plain sucks. Lets look at what causes all world problems, ultimately... The government... So, if the US's government is causing all the problems, and they own all the weapons, shouldn't that mean authority is hypocritical in nature when it comes to determining who does and doesn't have the right to own a gun? Consider that percentage of bad weapon users does not discriminate between public sector and private...

[Baff1 0]

That's not my decision to make old son.

There are however good practises gun owners can adopt to limit the dangers of domestic violence.

There is the basic key guards you can place in your gun if you have teenage children, although in my opinion a child will find the key soon enough if he really wants your gun.

Also, you can keep you gun locked in it's cabinet whenever you are not using it.

Doing this has become the law in my country.

I used to be able to store my gun under the bed so that I would have it readily to hand in any emergency, but the rules have changed.

The purpose of this is to stop people from instinctively reacting to a situtation by grabbing a ready weapon.

To force them to consciously go to the cabinet and get their gun.

This simple system turns any weapons use from "hot blooded" to "cold clooded". It involves an act of pre-meditation in the eyes of our law.