Joint ammo and magazines (jam)

[ruff 102]

Happy Jamming!

If I weren't so damn tired I would start talking about the backpack system I will be including in JAM for the next release (already appearing in WG AddPak). Yes, the dream of packing in more than 10 mags is here! But alas I'm too tired to chat about it.

there found it

but dont know if it made it

i cant find such a back pack system in jam

i guess it wasnt the current backpack addon guy

[@cero 0]

Interesting point, however I don't think that would work that well. What would be required (if I follow your idea properly) woudl be that the would have to use the same classname in their own PBO in order to allow interchangeability. This would cause a conflict with the JAM_Magazines.

That's what I though aswell, but it would be interesting if someone makes a quik experiment on that

Quote[/b] ]In the long run I think this would actually make it easier for the smaller addon makers to produce weapons that can be used by a wider range of mission makers.

SelectThis

I think it won't be in the long run, it will be before that, and not just that, JAM will probably be in most OFP fans hard drives before long, so carri on like that, I think is a bit too late to try to do it the way I say.

JAM and any of the BAS units will stay in my hrad drive for a long long time, so for me is not a problem.

Thanks.

@cero

[Gollum1 0]

I like Seifer´s ones more, they fit in a lot better with the rest of the screen and don´t stand out as much IMO.

[SelectThis 0]

Rudedog,

Checked the EH script for the init line in the misson editor.

I think the problem maybe with the copied " marks from the pdf. Try pasting into notepad and replacing the " with new ones.

or try this

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">this addEventHandler ["Fired",{if ((_this select 1 in [{Throw},{JAM_AT4Launcher}, {JAM_RPG7Launcher},{JAM_M72LAWLauncher}]) or (_this select 4 in [{JAM_MarkerGrenadeammo}])) then {_this exec "\JAM_Magazines\FX\firedEH.sqs"}}]

SelectThis

[MLF 0]

Seifer posted this in the DG forums.

http://www.seifer.nightmail.ru/jam_new.jpg

IMO those look much better than the current ones (no offense Suchey!) because they blend in with the briefing tablet quite a bit better.

If not this, I suggest using the old "background" for the guns (default BIS background) but then just adding a small "JAM" logo to the upper or lower right hand corner.

i really like it BD good effort.

[Rudedog 0]

Rudedog,

Checked the EH script for the init line in the misson editor.

I think the problem maybe with the copied " marks from the pdf. Try pasting into notepad and replacing the " with new ones.

or try this

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">this addEventHandler ["Fired",{if ((_this select 1 in [{Throw},{JAM_AT4Launcher}, {JAM_RPG7Launcher},{JAM_M72LAWLauncher}]) or (_this select 4 in [{JAM_MarkerGrenadeammo}])) then {_this exec "\JAM_Magazines\FX\firedEH.sqs"}}]

SelectThis

Thanks that worked perfect.

[blackdog~ 0]

This just came to my mind.

So, JAM was made my BAS and Suchey and BAS was mostly the contributor of all weapon sounds, statistics, etc. My question is why isn't your east counterpart, RHS, included? I mean, in all fairness it would be a good idea to have a russian team design the russian side to realistic values and sounds and the west team design western side to realistic values and sound...

[Shadow NX 1]

The East Weapon values didnt please me and our weapon maker team also, thats why we decided not to use it yet, maybe a updated version later.

[blackdog~ 0]

The East Weapon values didnt please me and our weapon maker team also, thats why we decided not to use it yet, maybe a updated version later.

My point exactly

Additionally, if you do allow russian mod teams tweak the values to more correct ones, Aeon from the FIA mod might give in and use JAM (as you may recall, he does not want to use it because of bad values and sounds etc..)

RHS also doesn't like the weapon backgrounds, as they dont blend in with future MOD's weapons backgrounds (in gear menu) nor do they blend in with default BIS stuff.

I suggest using the old original OFP one and then put "JAM" up in one of the corners and then release a template for future addons to use it with.

[SelectThis 0]

Blackdog,

RHS were given the chance to give input into the production of JAM right from the start. They were sent beta's of JAM 1 they even provided some sounds which were used in the package. This is the first time I have heard that they will not be using JAM so it is disappointing.

I would have been perfectly happy to incorporate any realistic suggestions they made, however it is a bit difficult to do that when no feedback was received from them.

Shadow NX,

Which values are you not happy with?

Re: Pics. They are not meant to blend in with BIS ones, that way you can tell which mags are JAM and which are not.

re: FIA Mod not using them. If you read back in this thread you will see why Aeon doesnt want to use JAM. We looked at accomodating him, but that would have meant duplicating EVERY magazine in the pack with no tracer versions. Something we did not have the resources to do.

SelectThis

[Donnervogel 0]

RHS. I am a strong supporter of JAM. If you don't like it I suggest you make your weapons able to use JAM mags and you can still make your own magazines and use them. Just make the weapon able to use JAM. Because I love JAM and I want to use it. It would be a shame when this major mod team would release addons that are not JAM compatible.

[suchey 0]

Quote[/b] ]So, JAM was made my BAS and Suchey and BAS was mostly the contributor of all weapon sounds, statistics, etc. My question is why isn't your east counterpart, RHS, included? I mean, in all fairness it would be a good idea to have a russian team design the russian side to realistic values and sounds and the west team design western side to realistic values and sound...

Actually, RHS was originally intended to help closely with the project...Soul Assasin had access to the JAM boards where there were requests for any additional team members be sent so that they could be allowed access to the location in order to provide feedback in regard to JAM and the specific items they might be using in addition to providing any additional sound or ballistic material which might be of value. There was never a request made to add additional RHS members and after a couple of initial posts very early in development, there was no longer any feedback from RHS.

On a similar note, most of the credit for JAM really belongs to BAS...I had very little to do with the actual creation of the package other than providing my own feedback in regard to items being used by the Marine pack and conveying beta tester feedback between our testers and JAM development. The Kudos go to BAS on the package.

[Shadow NX 1]

Well mostly there are lil things bugging me, some sounds, the green inventory pics, also i see no use for the HD weapons as it is almost impossible to hit something with it ( funny to put 2 hd machinegunners 500meter from each other and they fire maybe 2 mins before they might hit each other ).

Or the PKM that sounds like a flak cannon but isnt elevated when you fire long bursts, but in the other way it shakes that you can get epileptic while shooting

BUT i must say Jam has evolved, after testing the old version i had i was disapointed ( especially about guns in it that seem to cause no damage at all or were incredible inacurrate ) i didnt even noticed the current version is different cause i never tested all the weapons again but now i did and it is better, but still there are lil things bugging me.

And a lot of weapons are missing.

I didnt had any access to any JAM Boards just get a version from DeadMeat while ago and back then i thought this was already final, or almost final.

So i must think over it again but im still not 100% sure.

[Guest ####]

HD weapons are very useful for 2 purposes:

1. Cutscenes where you need more than 2 seconds of action with only a few units.

2. To simulate untrained paramilitary types.

It allows you to have units that will easily detect and enemy and engage without hitting all the time. If you degrade the skill to very low I have always found units will just stand and do nothing.

[Shadow NX 1]

There is a parameter you can change in the mission sqm how accurate the AI shoots  

I think the base weapons should have same values for playabilitys sake, the m60 is too superior for the PKM as a example ( imho )

The main idea of JAM is great, but all the altering of weapon values are not so good.

And still the Sounds

[hellfish6 7]

HD weapons were always designed to simulate soldiers/civillians/militia with little or no basic rifle skills. It's not a simple matter to point a gun at a target and expect to hit it - ask anybody who has been in the military. It can be suprisingly difficult to hit anything beyond 200m. Other factors like weapon maintenance, concentration and comfort affect accuracy. During a firefight, excitement, confusion, panic and adrenaline all add to the effects that hamper accuracy. This is what the high dispersion ammo reflects. It has been said before that HD weapons were designed for AI use, not to be used by a human player. JAM (and BAS) have gone out of their way to accomodate this, providing HD and regular forces for nearly all their units.

Your example of two machinegunners 500m from each other is kind of silly. Machineguns aren't considered to be accurate to that range. They're designed for suppressive fire. So while the AI may not always react to being shot at, you can bet that another human would. If you were one of those gunners and those rounds were landing around you, you'd probably think about finding a new place to shoot from. But still, if you weren't using HD machineguns, you'd probably have been killed by the first round fired at you - because by default the machineguns in OFP are HUGELY accurate.

When I play now, I always give my riflemen standard JAM magazines and SAW/machinegunners get HD weapons. They carry so much ammo precisely because they are not accurate weapons and are designed to pin the enemy down while friendly forces maneuver onto the target with more lethal fire. Besides, I get a bit aroused when I hear long bursts of machinegun fire. Comes from spending two years as a '60 gunner.

I haven't seen any real solid criticism of JAM yet. I think they sound great - and it provides a big chunk of enjoyment for me. As with all criticism, you're whining unless you can provide specific examples of something wrong.

[Guest ####]

well it is more convienient to just plop a unit into the editor than to start re-writing sqm's.

I do agree that some of the weapons need some tweeking.

IRL the M60 is crap, infact I wonder why the US didn't go over to the M240 earlier (FN MAG). The rate of fire on the 60 is way too slow to be a really effective GPMG.

The AT4 seems a little too powerful, I could be wrong though.

But over all I love the Jam weapons, it gives mission makers a whole bunch of other weapons to arm units with without haveing to download a million addons to do it.

[Shadow NX 1]

Even if it is the new hailbringer you still cant force anyone to use it if it interferes with our idea, simple as that.

But i knew this discussion would come after my first post today

But as i wrote  a few posts ago i think over it atm, i will talk to a few people and then decide... after all our weapon pack is still far from release anyway.

AND by the way, as Hellfish mentioned the heavy machineguns are for supressive fire mainly, well fear is no factor the KI knows and due to the fact the weapon isnt elevated when firing long bursts its not really hard to hit on longer ranges as a player even with HD version.

[edc 0]

If people think the AT4 is too powerful, maybe BAS/the JAM people could think about lowering the AT4's damage, but adding a Dragon or Javelin as a heavier AT weapon.

[Guest ####]

If your weapons pack is far from release than your crew would be too and if your crew is than so is the T55! Damn you RHS!

[Shadow NX 1]

No. the Crew gets a AKS-74 with folded stock wich is made from some stuff that is done already.

Atm the FIA versions get a nice special paintjob so it fits with other FIA addons

[SelectThis 0]

AI machinegunners were a problem in JAM 1, due to the recoil settings used, they fired too high all the time. This has been fixed in JAM 2.

There is of course no pressure on any mod to use JAM, it is something provided for use if they wish to. It maybe that they prefer their own definitions for damage etc. However it is a simple matter of including the equilivant JAM magazines (as long as you can decoded the classnames lol.. see readme ;)) as a useable magazine on the weapon. Unit loadouts in the cpp can use the mod's own magazines while giving missions makers the choice of switching to JAM if they want some compatiability with other mod units that they might use in a mission.

SelectThis

[Guest ####]

So whats the progress on the crew and their weapons then? almost done? release next week yes. *turns the bright lamp on Shadow NX*

[Major Fubar 0]

Without reading this whole thread (sorry if this has been addressed), what happens if someone wants to make a JAM compliant pack, but also has weapons in that pack that don't have a JAM equivalent magazine.

For instance, I have been thinking about making the HK pack JAM version (if I get permission), which includes a HK-UMP (.45ACP 25 round mag).

Would I just use JAM mags where possible and leave the other "as-is", or would I create my own secondary jam cfg file that contains the extra mags?

[hellfish6 7]

Yes, I don't mind if RHS decides to make their own magazines and such, but I'll beg them to at least make their weapons JAM compatible. You don't have to include JAM with your releases, just that line in the config that lets me put JAM mags into your weapons.