Joint ammo and magazines (jam)

[munger 25]

Maybe AI tweaking would be best left for something like the ECP Project since there has been talk of implementing new AI routines through scripts in that config, and it seems to suit that more than JAM. That way JAM can be left to do what it's meant to do (ammo) whilst the ECP covers all the other stuff.

[EiZei 0]

IMHO the best solution would be that some 3rd party scripter would make a simple functional script that replaces HD mags with "real" ones when they are picked up by a human player.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

So sorry for having a discussion in addons and mods; discussion: it won't happen again

You say JAM is not an AI tweaking mod and you don't want to change anything: fine. I don't know how many times I have to say that I like JAM, I just don't like HD mags, it just doesn't seem to be getting through.

If the script to switch out HD mags was implemented, that would resolve a lot of the problems that HD has... not all, but a lot of them.

I do try not to use HD mags but when the entire mission/ campaign uses nothing but HD mags it is a little hard.... -not everyone appreciates luck, good or bad.....

Quote[/b] ]Uh? AI tweaking? don't you think this will only work with those addons that are AI tweaked?

No, it will automatically work with any unit that is controlled by the AI, regardless of addon or original unit.

The spray script created by someone else is one way of fixing the AI but it is too CPU intensive for much use. Not feasible to use it as is.

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">_man = _this select 0

_count = 0

_start1 = "start1"

_start2 = "start2"

_start1_and_start2_array = [_start1, _start2]

_random = random (count _start1_and_start2_array)

_random = _random - _random % 1

_randomstart = _start1_and_start2_array select _random

_man removealleventhandlers "fired"

_mandir = getdir _man

goto _randomstart

#start1

_man setdir _mandir

_mandir = _mandir + 0.1

_count = _count + 1

? _count > 50: goto "end"

~0.01

goto "start1"

#start2

_man setdir _mandir

_mandir = _mandir - 0.1

_count = _count + 1

? _count > 50: goto "end"

~0.01

goto "start2"

#end

_man addeventhandler ["fired", {[_this select 0] exec "spray.sqs"}]

exit

Anyway; I'd love it if JAM was just about the ammo and not about completely changing the gameplay of OFP - although it does need changing a little.

Less use of HD mags in missions would be a good start

[ruff 102]

So sorry for having a discussion in addons and mods; discussion: it won't happen again  

You say JAM is not an AI tweaking mod and you don't want to change anything: fine.  I don't know how many times I have to say that I like JAM, I just don't like HD mags, it just doesn't seem to be getting through.

If the script to switch out HD mags was implemented, that would resolve a lot of the problems that HD has... not all, but a lot of them.

I do try not to use HD mags but when the entire mission/ campaign uses nothing but HD mags it is a little hard.... -not everyone appreciates luck, good or bad.....

Quote[/b] ]Uh? AI tweaking? don't you think this will only work with those addons that are AI tweaked?

No, it will automatically work with any unit that is controlled by the AI, regardless of addon or original unit.

The spray script created by someone else is one way of fixing the AI but it is too CPU intensive for much use.  Not feasible to use it as is.

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">_man = _this select 0

  _count = 0

  _start1 = "start1"

  _start2 = "start2"

  _start1_and_start2_array = [_start1, _start2]

  _random = random (count _start1_and_start2_array)

  _random = _random - _random % 1

  _randomstart = _start1_and_start2_array select _random

  _man removealleventhandlers "fired"

  _mandir = getdir _man

  goto _randomstart

#start1

  _man setdir _mandir

  _mandir = _mandir + 0.1

  _count = _count + 1

  ? _count > 50: goto "end"

  ~0.01

  goto "start1"

#start2

  _man setdir _mandir

  _mandir = _mandir - 0.1

  _count = _count + 1

  ? _count > 50: goto "end"

  ~0.01

  goto "start2"

#end

  _man addeventhandler ["fired", {[_this select 0]  exec "spray.sqs"}]

exit

Anyway; I'd love it if JAM was just about the ammo and not about completely changing the gameplay of OFP - although it does need changing a little.

Less use of HD mags in missions would be a good start

i dont really have have a problem as long as the enemy AI use the hd mags and the player and his squad doesnt

[Blain. 0]

I was thinking about the 7.62 round and the .300 Winchester round the two are the same just the .300 is a higher quality and different type of powder.

Just suggesting incase some one may want to use the .300 for the WA2000 as it is standard any way.

[dm 9]

So sorry for having a discussion in addons and mods; discussion: it won't happen again  

You say JAM is not an AI tweaking mod and you don't want to change anything: fine.  I don't know how many times I have to say that I like JAM, I just don't like HD mags, it just doesn't seem to be getting through.

If the script to switch out HD mags was implemented, that would resolve a lot of the problems that HD has... not all, but a lot of them.

I do try not to use HD mags but when the entire mission/ campaign uses nothing but HD mags it is a little hard.... -not everyone appreciates luck, good or bad.....

Anyway; I'd love it if JAM was just about the ammo and not about completely changing the gameplay of OFP - although it does need changing a little.

Less use of HD mags in missions would be a good start

Like I said, if you want to see it that badly, then write the code changes, and email them to me (deadmeat@ballistic-studios.com) and I will talk to the guys about the possibility of it becoming reality - as part of the JAM scheme.

Again, I CAN NOT promise you that it would be included, but if the code you send me baron is good enough, we MAY be able to do something with it.

The ball is in your court, lets stop "discussing" it, and actually start doing it eh?

One thing I will point out tho:

Quote[/b] ]I just don't like HD mags, it just doesn't seem to be getting through.

What doesnt seem to be getting through, is that even though YOU dislike HD mags, everyone else does, so YOU will have to make the effort to make it better. If YOU can come up with, and implement, a better solution than HD, then maybe we can start progressing from this

"I dont like HD"

"everyone else does, so tough luck it stays"

"but I still dont like HD"

"and its still not going to be droped"

"you dont get it, I dont like HD"

arguement...

[hellfish6 7]

I don't mind picking up HD weapons from dead bodies. I think it simulates the poor maintenance of the weapon, or other variables like a different zero, dirty ammo, etc. I usually end up hitting my target, but it can be a bit scary using those mags at times.

[4 IN 1 0]

I don't mind picking up HD weapons from dead bodies. I think it simulates the poor maintenance of the weapon, or other variables like a different zero, dirty ammo, etc. I usually end up hitting my target, but it can be a bit scary using those mags at times.  

you got the point man

it would be even better if there is jamming effect on those ammo, may be a larger chance for HD ammo?

*edit*as baron said, dirty ammo cause jamming

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

I don't mind picking up HD weapons from dead bodies. I think it simulates the poor maintenance of the weapon, or other variables like a different zero, dirty ammo, etc. I usually end up hitting my target, but it can be a bit scary using those mags at times.  

Poor maintenance doesn't make weapons less accurate (unless the sights are falling off)

Different zero means that the rounds will fall in a consistent pattern, just not under the crosshair/ dead centre of sights - they would not randomly spray all over

Dirty ammo = jamming, not accuracy, and should be cleaned before loading mag anyway..

Oh yeah, not everyone else likes HD mags.

[Eviscerator 0]

There is absolutely no chance of JAM turning into a mod, it works well as it is and will stay as it is, adding in AI tweaking is something that is simply not neccessary and would completely disrupt the way JAM is used. Things like that are best left to things like the ECP, so sorry but AI tweaking will not be added. I understand that you do not like HD and that there is no way to persuade you otherwise, but we arent going to do anything about it, we and many others enjoy JAM the way it is, with HD. So your opinions are welcome but we will not be acting upon them.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Thats fine.

One question:

IF the ECP succeeds in 'fixing' the AI - perhaps even having configurable accuracy - will JAM become purely about the Ammunition - as I hope?

You see there would be a conflict if two things were both changing the accuracy - some mod, ECP or whatever, fixing the AI at the source, but the AI is using HD mags... they would never hit ANYTHING!

What then?

Until then, of course, I'm sure HD is the best option in the absence of tweaked AI mods.

Its not that I want JAM to be in charge of fixing the AI - its that I dont

[Milkman 1]

Since I didn't get much of a response in the other thread, I will try again here.

When I use the flares "JAM_flareGreen" and "JAM_flareWhite" for some units I have in their config, it crashes the game. Are these the proper names? They are in the readme, but they dont work on units ingame.

Help?

[SelectThis 0]

Those names are correct. Did you include the Fired Eventhandler in the unit's cpp?

SelectThis

[Milkman 1]

Those names are correct. Did you include the Fired Eventhandler in the unit's cpp?

SelectThis

Probably not...

EDIT: Do i need a Flaregun? Because I am using the JAM_M16GL. I have added the eventhandler to the unit, and it still crashes. The unit is identical to ones just like it, and they don't crash my computer.

[gazmen 0]

There is absolutely no chance of JAM turning into a mod, it works well as it is and will stay as it is, adding in AI tweaking is something that is simply not neccessary and would completely disrupt the way JAM is used. Things like that are best left to things like the ECP, so sorry but AI tweaking will not be added. I understand that you do not like HD and that there is no way to persuade you otherwise, but we arent going to do anything about it, we and many others enjoy JAM the way it is, with HD. So your opinions are welcome but we will not be acting upon them.

That's a shame...

You must add tweaked AI distance rate of fire for Magazines

Example: JAM_ak103

class Single

{

aiRateOfFire=3.000000;

aiRateOfFireDistance=250;

};

class Burst

{

aiRateOfFire=3.000000;

aiRateOfFireDistance=350;

};

class FullAuto

{

aiRateOfFire=4.000000;

aiRateOfFireDistance=150;

};

Single = DistanceIA = 350m (the IA will shoot single shoot only if target is less than 350m)

Auto = 200m (the IA will shoot auto only if target is less than 200m)

For all addon who use JAM_magazines.

It would be better...

For my part, I love HD even if they are a little big too HD...

[Drill Sergeant 0]

Of topic but on topic. AND DON'T FLAME ME THIS TIME.

While I was DL some new addons I found that JAM doesn have these types of ammo. Would be nice to have them

because JAM is such a Godsend.

OICW ammo

45 SMG ammo

40 S&W SMG ammo

Glock 21 ammo (Full auto)

HK P11 ammo*

UAR ammo*

*(Despite the fact we can't fire guns under water.)

10mm SMG ammo

MM-1 Cylinders

.22 rim fire

Possibly some WWII ammo like brit .303

and 30 cal.

Thats about if for now.

Thanks. -Drill Sergeant

[@cero 0]

Nice wish list, I would add the tipe "sure shot" for shot guns.

[Drill Sergeant 0]

Also fully automatic shotgun support would be nice. Like for the HK CAWs shotgun, SPAS12 and pancor jackhammer drums along with USAS12 "Street Sweeper" magazines.

Thats it for now.

[gazmen 0]

Hi,

Can I know why when using JAM_SD ammo on existing weapons (AS, VSS, AK103SD), I have always a bug with the scope, I shoot and the bullet go to high (every guns [even the bizon] and every SD ammo)...

Example: if I take the SSV_F2000, i have two version of the gun, one SD and one normal, if I use JAM_W556_30mag the scope working fine, the bullet go where you pointed. But, when I use JAM_W556_30SDmag for the SD version of the same addon, the crosshair or scope is not working good, the bullet don't shoot target So please help me, or tell me why i have these strange behaviour...

How to remove this ? Its JAM_magazines bug ? or the probs come from the add on ? Sould I add something in the config.cpp ?

[SelectThis 0]

The supressed magazines have a lower init speed than the un-supressed ones. That's why the scopes are out.

SelectThis

[dm 9]

Its not a bug at all, its due to the fact that the SD ammo travels at sub-sonic speeds, and hence will drop below your aiming point.

And to quote Eviscerator on the answer to this question:

Quote[/b] ]Its because the bullet is subsonic and the sight needs zeroing, you can do this by adjusting these two figures in the config until the shot lines up with the sight:

distanceZoomMin=400;

distanceZoomMax=400;

These config entries go in the CfgWeapons section of your config for each weapon.

[earl 0]

You will usually notice it going high, above the ret. Expect this with my weapons as well, I kinda like it because it forces you to learn to use the SD weapons and judge distance.

What happens is you define the range where the bullet must strike (400m) and then OFP does whatever it needs to get the bullet there. So for a slow bullet, it has to shoot upwards first so that the bullet arcs and falls on target at 400m. You will notice after 400m, the bullet strikes below the reticule.

The problem is that you can't calibrate the scope to be right for two different ammo types.

[ag_smith 0]

Little bit offtopic, but here's what I've recently noticed:

It seems the whole JAM project become partly pointless as only units to fully implement JAM weapons are the BAS' ones.

As far as I can remember this initiative was first developed to provide ammo compatibility between BAS Delta/Rangers and Suchey/Earl USMC. But I've just read that JAM support for these units will be optional and will require some manual add/removemagazine initialization.

Other people complain that they don't like sounds or claim that projectile params are not enough realistic.

Once upon a time I hoped that this project would bring full magazine exchangeablity to Flashpoint. Now I feel a bit disapointed...  

(I'm not saying there's something wrong about JAM, though...)

[SelectThis 0]

You're not the only one to feel disappointed ag_smith. The constant complaints about one or another aspects of JAM are tiring. Alot of people don't understand that compromises had to be made to accommodate the game limitations and realism factors.

I won't point fingers but many changes were made on the request of people who have subsequently stated they won't be using JAM, wasting our time and creating changes to JAM which have attracted criticism.

SelectThis

[Guest]

Ahhh, but it was a good idea and was well done IMO. I think you'll find over time more and more addons might be including JAM