Joint ammo and magazines (jam)

[dm 9]

All sounds can be changed in the current version of JAM, without causing any version incompatibilities (simply change the sounds in JAM_Sounds.pbo)

However, because the sounds are coded to the magazine and not the weapon, you cant have shared magazines AND have individual weapon sounds.

[calm_terror 0]

why be jerks aboot locking up something that was meant to be a sharing?

yeah i know you guys think it is finished but eh far from it.

JAM needs alot of work.. so many ammos are missing.

hello uzi and mp5 ammo should have both primary and secondary ammo slots.

there is no where near enuff hand gun ammos yet 2 that are there the m9 and glock are actual the SAME ammo and mag cap wich makes NO sense..

and the rpgs are really poorly damage rated. only 1 with a lower damage was the aa version. wich is really messed up

the Anti personal one should have been lower but have a sharpnal ranger larger then normal, then there should have been a normal rpg with a ok value, then an rpg-7vr with a much higher damge ratign but small blast range. then the aa version..

there is a bunch of sniper ammo missing. and really dumb as that all sniper rifles have a bolt action sound..

heck there is also no jam for the rpg29 or carl gustrian.

or the stringer, SA7. there is alot of stuff like that.

all should be corrected and not just mm this done, we no let you fix it. bs..

[theavonlady 2]

With the exception of using the term "jerk", I have to admit, DM, I find it hard to understand your reluctance in this case to allow the community to continually evolve JAM. It's part of the nature of this addon to be open to the community. JAM is universal in nature.

Will it really make former BAS members happy that everyone be forced to manually edit existing missions just to globally change references from "JAM" to "JAM3" or whatever?

I think some serious flexibility is in order for an addon of JAM's nature. Please reconsider so that the word "Joint" in "JAM" continues to remain significant.

[dm 9]

Well, Clam_terror, you've had that attitude towards BAS since, well ever. So lets not go into personal vendettas.

As for the "Joint" issue, yes we initially attempted to code it as a joint project, but all our "partners" decided that their own methods were better, so JAM never really was a "joint" project.

However, JAM is a standard, so to have every member of the community "evolving" it as they see fit would mean that the standard would be lost. Since everybody has their own perceptions as to what weapons are the best/most accurate/most powerful etc. This is why JAM is remaining "closed" since the ballence and standard is there at the moment.

Re. "missing" magazines. If you read the JAM readme, you will see that JAM is NOT meant to be an all-encompassing ammo reference. This is because there are simply too many different types of ammo and magazine in existance. JAM simply encompasses the more COMMON types, so that mods may share magazines, so that they may inter-operate. This is why "so many" magazines are "missing."

[gandalf the white 0]

JAM simply encompasses the more COMMON types

JAM_5.56

JAM_5.56HD

JAM_5.56HP

JAM_5.56SD

JAM_5.56....

just create a new type of Jam , since you're active and some people didn't liked the original Jam you've got a decend change of succeeding... only hard part is finding a name

[FerretFangs 0]

Ah, the closeness of "community".....

You know, when you break balls, your respect goes right out the door. And there are, of course, those of us who'll do what we want regardless. You can either help, sans superiority complex, or get run over by progress.

[One 0]

is there any Original ECP mod members watching this thread?

i think it would be a good opertunity for project members of that team to step in and give there 2 cents.

ahhhh yeah......enhanced configuration and weapon stanadards all in one package.....good idea? or not....?

[newiy 0]

Maybe not in one package...

ECP just lags too much for me

But a new JAM-type package would be cool. And it's not too difficult to uh... "not-JAM" versions older addons. Just do it the way we JAM addons today.

Of course, the problem is getting all the permission we need.

[SelectThis 0]

JAM simply encompasses the more COMMON types

JAM_5.56

JAM_5.56HD

JAM_5.56HP

JAM_5.56SD

JAM_5.56....

just create a new type of Jam , since you're active and some people didn't liked the original Jam you've got a decend change of succeeding... only hard part is finding a name

hmmm let me see, 5.56....oh that'd be the caliber of the M16/M4 rifles. I guess there aren't enough of those around to justify putting that one in JAM.

JAM was always about game play...enabling you as a player to pick up a magazine from another player, even though the weapons were made by different people. It is a tool to allow addon makers to make weapons that are easier for mission editors to incorporate into missions that use a range of different addons. It was not about trying to cover every single type of magazine available. For example you won't see that many addons of the PGM Mini-Hecate which uses the .338 lapua Magnum round. If someone made it, then there would be very little game play issues of including it into a mission. Something like the M4 magazine however, appears alot in addons.

There is nothing to prevent one of you making a totally new addon which does the same thing, I just ask that you don't use the acronym JAM to avoid confusion.

STT

[theavonlady 2]

only hard part is finding a name

Mutually

Accepted

Ammo

Magazines

[calm_terror 0]

I would do the project. heck use most of JAM's values and settings. and weapons since most are just BIS defualts the only thing would be gettign all the sounds. other then that it would be pretty simple.

[SelectThis 0]

Looks like we have a name and a volunteer to do it. Happy coding

SelectThis

[RED 0]

is there any Original ECP mod members watching this thread?

i think it would be a good opertunity for project members of that team to step in and give there 2 cents.

ahhhh yeah......enhanced configuration and weapon stanadards all in one package.....good idea? or not....?

We were thinking of hard coding the values into the config at one point, but it would of never worked. All the defualt weapons would have the JAM values but could not be used with other JAM units, thus destorying the point of JAM.

RED

[snypa 0]

Calm_terror would you like to co-operate with this with me?

And one thing I've got to say: isn't it quite clear that British and american units are good to be in a same mission. I was making few missions to UKF British and BAS Delta/Ranger, but I just had to close the project 'cause everybody (including myself) who tryed the missions said that the sounds sucks, 'cause you hear everywhere the same 5.56 mm * 30 rnds mag and it's annoying. They don't use same kind of magazine type or have same sound, THIS is the main problem with JAM today. And I don't understand how this would affect to MP games as they would come more realistic? You can only pick up the same magazine that you are using. Examble: You run in the battlefiel with an M16 and you see a guy with SA80, well you both use same bullets, but not have same kind clips, so you're fucked, try to find a guy with M16. REALISTIC, AIN'T IT?

[theavonlady 2]

I would lile to suggest a couple of ideas:

1. A team should get together to handle changes from here on in. If this is going to be a partisan effort only, many good ideas and suggestions from others might be left out. We don't need 5 different ammo and magazine addons at the end of the day.

2. Use my AMORE method to separate and make 100% open all of JAM's sound files. That way, anyone can produce replacement sounds per single or multiple file, in a fixed install location, with no proprietary methods involved in updating them. You might even want to consider using AMORE to store mag pic files external to the addon PBO file, for the same easier customization method and for shrinking the addon's PBO file size for smaller downloads, as newer versions are created.

3. Open up new threads here, all starting with the addon's name (for example, "MAAM:", so that they can easily be searched for in thread titles alone. USe these threads to present ideas and get pro/con feedback from the community. Encourage participation, especially from addon teams making weapons and soldiers. You'll never be able to please everybody but you can do your best by hearing out others.

4. Don't go extreme when it comes to reality versus gameplay. This shouldn't be an addon that pulls surprises on mission makers who all of a sudden discover that missions using these magazines behave radically different than what's to be expected.

If you go with AMORE for opening up the sound/pic files, I'm willing to volunteer and help organize that.

[theavonlady 2]

Of course, the problem is getting all the permission we need.

If you'll read what BAS members DeadMeat and SelectThis stated, we have permission to use everything EXCEPT for the JAM prefix in any part of the addon's configuration.

[calm_terror 0]

well some weapons liek the Galil can take both the Galil mags and with an adapter the 30rd m16 mags so it is not hard to code both mags into 1 weapon.

like most liekly there is an adapter for the SA80 to use m16 mags etc. the only thing is you have ot live with all 5.56 mags soundign the same that is really an OFP limit.

it is best to jsut pick something between the m16, galil, sa80 m4 etc..  and use that as default and let the mission makers and outside people change the sounds themselves.

I would be willing to code up soem new MAAN thing with any and all ammo types we can think of. different rds in mags etc..

oh btw PM me with ideas etc. and I can begin to recode JAM into MAAN and add different mags etc.. only thing is I need someone to come up with better sound files for the ammo

[theavonlady 2]

well some weapons liek the Galil can take both the Galil mags and with an adapter the 30rd m16 mags so it is not hard to code both mags into 1 weapon.

like most liekly there is an adapter for the SA80 to use m16 mags etc. the only thing is you have ot live with all 5.56 mags soundign the same that is really an OFP limit.

it is best to jsut pick something between the m16, galil, sa80 m4 etc..  and use that as default and let the mission makers and outside people change the sounds themselves.

How could a mission maker override a sound?

Quote[/b] ]I would be willing to code up soem new MAAN thing

What MAAN? You mean MAAM? Are we going for that name?

Quote[/b] ]with any and all ammo types we can think of. different rds in mags etc..

Shouldn't we first document what's missing from JAM2, get other people's input and then code?

Quote[/b] ]oh btw PM me with ideas etc.

Why not keep the ideas open on the forum for everyone to see and discuss?

Quote[/b] ]and I can begin to recode JAM into MAAN and add different mags etc.. only thing is I need someone to come up with better sound files for the ammo

If you move the sound files to the AMORE repository, anyone can produce their own sound files and anyone can install the ones they prefer without affecting to addon's configuarion. May the best sounds win!

[DeLiltMon 0]

Quote[/b] ]like most liekly there is an adapter for the SA80 to use m16 mags etc.

It doesn't need an adapter as far as I'm aware

[theavonlady 2]

Quick question to all:

Would you like me to produce an AMORE version of the JAM files? Only changes would include:

1) Renaming all references from JAM to MAAM

2) Moving the MAAM_Sounds.pbo's sound files to the AMORE repository.

3) Optionally remove the \soundhits\ and \pics\ subfolders in the MAAM_Magazines.pbo file to the AMORE repository.

4) Adjusting the file paths in MAAM_Magazines.pbo to reference their new locations in the AMORE repository.

[FerretFangs 0]

Quote[/b] ]like most liekly there is an adapter for the SA80 to use m16 mags etc.

It doesn't need an adapter as far as I'm aware

The SA80 takes STANAG NATO standard magazines, I thought.

Anyway....

[tankieboy 0]

Aye.

[Jezz 0]

isnt that the A2 as i thought the A1 had problems with m16 mags?

[FerretFangs 0]

No, I think it was meant to accept the standard 5.56mm magazines from the beginning. The A1 had other problem(s).

[stevevcb 3]

The problem with magazines with the A1 was the fact that they were crap. The A2 mag is more substantial. Both the L85A1 and L85A2 will fire the bog-standard STANAG mag as well.