LAMBS Improved Danger.fsm

[froggyluv 2136]

20 minutes ago, mickeymen said:

 

If this is possible, then the solution would be to take into account the distance to the obstacle and the target distance, which is suppressed by AI.

you seem to want to solve complex problems with simple solutions. The mod  creator already thouroughly explained the intricacies of your suggestions. You simply aren’t allowing or understanding the amount of variables that cascade out of such suggestions. So again - if you threw up some mock code I think you would get a better understanding of why it’s not so easy to do as you suggest. 
 

Suggestions without concrete solution oriented material is easy - putting together a comprehensive package of that code is hard 

[LSValmont 789]

On 5/7/2021 at 1:37 PM, froggyluv said:

you seem to want to solve complex problems with simple solutions. The mod  creator already thouroughly explained the intricacies of your suggestions. You simply aren’t allowing or understanding the amount of variables that cascade out of such suggestions. So again - if you threw up some mock code I think you would get a better understanding of why it’s not so easy to do as you suggest. 
 

Suggestions without concrete solution oriented material is easy - putting together a comprehensive package of that code is hard 

 

Totally agree. By this point the devs are very aware of any remaining issue but if a complete solution hasn't been yet implemented it is most likely out of their hands.

 

As a rule of thumb, if a dev has replied your comment/suggestion/bug report then your job is pretty much done.

[redarmy 422]

Lovely to see this mod progressing so well.Did  a few tests with AI under high command against enemy AI and it was great.

 

Im using a call to make AI have unlimited magazines as it doesnt break my immersion,but with that said,and that people are asking for a suggestion for a quality of life addition,i thought i might ask for one too..

 

Is there any way the mod could have the option to disable AI injured limping animation and slower movement speed?Or better yet make AI medics heal their squad mates? This has been a huge issue for years i Arma and im baffled to why BIS ignore this.Lambs runs so well and its overshadowed by vanilla AI behaviours impeding good AI movement.

 

Any chance something could be added into the mod which ensures injured units dont slow down the group or get left behind?

 

Also id like to add-when playing CUP maps like takistan,the AI by default in Arma3 cant manage those building so well,and i believe that the new "fiendishly quick"  building clearing is actually causing them to die from falling damage)IE climbing stairs). No joke i watched an 8 man squad clearing a small compound and 6 of them died trying to navigate a house. Now im not sure if this happens in vanilla,im sure it does but im pretty positive not on the same scale.On top of that,some of the structures in takistan and other maps are causing AI who search those buildings to become pemanently stuck.While i know this isnt a LAMBS issue i just want to point it out.

 

If what im observing is infact Lambs house clearing,perhaps could you disable falling damage on the AI? CUP maps will become a nightmare

[nkenny 1057]

Glad you like it @redarmy

You bring out many good points. Touching the medical system is a little bit outside our scope, but I wonder if you are running ACE3 medical? ACE3 adds AI that sets up healing routines and we specifically cater for it in lambs danger.fsm. I would love to see a video of AI falling to death, haha. It would help us tune the settings to fit modded content a bit better 🙂

-k 

[redarmy 422]

7 minutes ago, nkenny said:

Glad you like it @redarmy

You bring out many good points. Touching the medical system is a little bit outside our scope, but I wonder if you are running ACE3 medical? ACE3 adds AI that sets up healing routines and we specifically cater for it in lambs danger.fsm. I would love to see a video of AI falling to death, haha. It would help us tune the settings to fit modded content a bit better 🙂

-k 

Im soley playing single player,so i do not touch ACE medical.In test with lambs iv disabed other mods bar CBA to make sure theres nothing else going on causing the issues.I cant make a video of it but i can try get those buildings classnames for you.Even if so,i doubt anything can be done with it,not a lambs issue(or even a CUP one),just typical Arma3 AI pathing

 

For now im personally going to try to find a way to disable fall damage on AI

[marez12 17]

Hi, 

I found an intersting way to work with your garrison waypoint in conjonction with CBA. Using the CBA object: AI building position you can make a  fixed position for exemple in a trenchline for the AI. However it seems to me that it doesn't work everytime?. Was it something you've forseen anyway? Because it's very usefull in mission making and i'm not sure why it doesn't work 100% of the time. 

For exemple the AI wil rush out of it's position or won't take place in a position at all. Is there a reason for that? 

Thanks in advance.

[mickeymen 324]

@nkenny @diwako 

 

Guys, It seems to me that the problem that I reported earlier has been smoothed out. I don’t know if I’m wrong, but for several days now I have been trying to observe the AI and I don’t see stupid shooting at obstacles in the line of fire! Looks much better! Current version 2.5.1 - Turing Thanks very much for your improvements, I love you all!

 

I have a question about LAMBS waypoint.

I want to remind, that unfortunately the LAMBS waypoints, do not work as vanilla waypoints do - The settings inside the waypoint (ai speed, ai behavior ) will not be taken into account by the LAMBS logic.

Main problem for me - It is also IMPOSSIBLE to skip the LAMBS waypoint, by means activated trigger. At least I never got it.

 

Once upon a time I already get some solution, but the answer I received, still does not work for me.

 

The my main LAMBS waypoint problem, is that I cannot skip the LAMBS waypoint to next waypoint, under any circumstances. Hence the problem - I cannot use LAMBS waypoints - each of them becomes disposable for me. 

Thus, I cannot combine them with vanilla waypoints.

 

@nkenny I remmember, you answered once, that there are modules clearing LAMBS FSM - "Task Reset".

Several times,  I tried using them, I noticed, that the LAMBS logic will be reset, however after that, such AI will not move to the next current waypoint. 

Looks like the AI can't see the next waypoint. As if it was just put on the map, with no waypoints.

As result, such AI ( with cleared LAMBS logic) will simply remain on the map without any purpose.

 

Please explain how a player can skip LAMBS waypoint, at the same time combining them with other vanilla waypoint?

 

Here's a simple task example:

 

 

First. I need the AI to hide in the house (TASK GARRISON), but after the trigger is triggered,

I need the AI to leave the house and switch to the vanilla "MOVE" waypoint.

 

[redarmy 422]

nkenny i did some testing in a scenario ,as mentioned before,AI fast movements while clearing buildings was causing them to die from fall damage.

 

By running this to remove fall damage:

Quote

this addEventHandler ["HandleDamage", {if ((_this select 4) == "") then {0} else {_this select 2};}];

 

I had no instances of collision type deaths while AI cleared buildings.If you could throw those eventhandlers onto AI who are clearing when in a special formation it might be a solution.For now i just run this in everyones init

 

In the 2nd case issue,the AI once clearing/cleared a house,got stuck inside there.The buildings are CUP / Takistan 

 

Quote

Village house 8 (two floors with roof/three doors

 

(this house has a small "shed" attached to it,thats the particular pos they get stuck)

And

 

Quote

Village house 1L one floor/no door

 

 

And in almost every instance ,AI trying to go through an arch way,get stuck unable to path again.  This was:

 

Quote

Mud gate/no door

 

 

Again,i know its not a Lambs issue,Lambs is just highlighting the limitations of the AI and pathing,the same as it highlights their inability to heal and therefore cant keep a strong push.

 

Anyway those classnames are there if you are interested in looking sometime.Not much of an issue for me personally with enemy AI but using HC and trying to move squads becomes impossible after some urban fighting.

[johnnyboy 3792]

On 5/11/2021 at 9:28 PM, redarmy said:

Is there any way the mod could have the option to disable AI injured limping animation and slower movement speed?

In the same event handler where your stopping fall damage, you can double how fast a unit walks with a limp via:

if (_unit getHit "legs" >= .5) then
{
	_unit setAnimSpeedCoef 2;
};

Or to prevent limping altogether, you could:

_unit setHit ["legs",.49]; // Any value >= .5 causes limping

Personally, I like seeing the limp, but making them move twice as fast helps keep the group moving.

[redarmy 422]

7 hours ago, johnnyboy said:

In the same event handler where your stopping fall damage, you can double how fast a unit walks with a limp via:

if (_unit getHit "legs" >= .5) then
{
	_unit setAnimSpeedCoef 2;
};

Or to prevent limping altogether, you could:

_unit setHit ["legs",.49]; // Any value >= .5 causes limping

Personally, I like seeing the limp, but making them move twice as fast helps keep the group moving.

Thats perfect,thanks man. I also like the limp animation,i wasnt aware i could tweak the anim speed under injured circumstances,will use it.

[Nicolai 10]

Hey Nkenny and others,

 

Whilst running lambs ai with an 'AI commander' mod (NR6 PACK - HAL Evolved), I noticed that units would continuously mount-dismount their vehicles. Do you think this can be due to the commander mod telling them to mount up, whilst lambs tells them to dismount as they are currently in danger? I know I should not be combining mods haphazardly, but I would just be interested in your thoughts on this.

 

Regards,

Nicolai

[redarmy 422]

4 hours ago, Nicolai said:

Hey Nkenny and others,

 

Whilst running lambs ai with an 'AI commander' mod (NR6 PACK - HAL Evolved), I noticed that units would continuously mount-dismount their vehicles. Do you think this can be due to the commander mod telling them to mount up, whilst lambs tells them to dismount as they are currently in danger? I know I should not be combining mods haphazardly, but I would just be interested in your thoughts on this.

 

Regards,

Nicolai

Sounds more like a vanilla issue.AI mount / dismount dance has been around for years.But i also imagine the two mods are not helping.Lambs handle the AI when they get into danger mode,its not supposed to affect waypoints,which is why i think its a mix of the two mods and a vanilla issue

[mickeymen 324]

11 hours ago, Nicolai said:

Whilst running lambs ai with an 'AI commander' mod (NR6 PACK - HAL Evolved), I noticed that units would continuously mount-dismount their vehicles. Do you think this can be due to the commander mod telling them to mount up, whilst lambs tells them to dismount as they are currently in danger?

 

Hello. This is a 100% vanilla problem, I have seen this for a very long time. 

Three years ago I already reported this on the feedback forum, but BIS, as always, ignored it. 

[Nicolai 10]

Interesting, so mechanised/motorised infantry will always have to deal with this issue? I was hoping to achieve the effect of high-mobility infantry by adding vehicles in their groups.

 

[redarmy 422]

14 hours ago, Nicolai said:

Interesting, so mechanised/motorised infantry will always have to deal with this issue? I was hoping to achieve the effect of high-mobility infantry by adding vehicles in their groups.

 

When issues like this arise in Arma(and they always will),scripting what you want to happen works 99% of the time.

 

Beauty of Arma3,if theres something you can imagine doing,it can be done.

 

 

Look at the "move in cargo" command on the BIS Wiki: https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/moveInCargo

[SHIFTY WOLF 2]

Hey @nkenny, I've been trying to read up on LAMBs FSM and how I can wrangle a little bit more control over the AI. I'm particularly thinking of AI meant to be in a defensive posture. The Task Garrison hits some of the marks where this is concerned - manning buildings in an area, sorting out patrols. I like being able to limit their exit trigger (hit, shot at, etc).

Though the issue I keep hitting is once the fighting starts I'm looking for a more dynamic defensive response. What do I mean by that? Well from a mission maker's point of view, I love the way LAMBs AI react to a fight, reinforce nearby units, flank, use concealment and cover, use buildings, and suppress. But when in a defensive posture I would be looking for the AI to react in such a way that they know that there is something or some area that they are meant to be defending, something that is defined by the mission maker (or Zeus, I guess). A defined area that may impart restraints on the AI's freedom via parameters (Defend area/object? Reinforcement range? chase range? key garrison buildings? Patrols?).

I found something similar asked in this thread and was wondering if there has been any further development on it?

On 2/21/2020 at 7:19 AM, nkenny said:

2. The problem you describe is difficult. It is of course present in the vanilla AI as well.  The problem is one of context.  As a mission maker and human, you understand rules, briefings, and positions of power. Sometimes ROE allows chasing down enemies, sometimes it does not. Sometimes ROE should be broken, sometimes not. Any soldier will have received a briefing about the expected direction of attack by the enemy, abstract or not. This in turns informs which positions should be abandoned, and which cannot. If this analysis sounds philosophical, it is because it is precisely a question of epistemology. It is a question of what the AI knows.

It is admittedly a weakness of LAMBS Danger.fsm that it does not leverage the vanilla Combat Modes to any sensible degree.  Which means that one easy avenue of controlling what the AI expects is closed. Perhaps certain combat modes should have different executions within the FSM, though the vanilla AI does a poor job of demonstrating any such sensibility itself.

Another option may be to read 'HOLD' waypoints and possibly 'Guarded by' positions in a more strict manner.  These locations are expected to be held. Essentially,  those which are marked as 'Guarded by', hence assigned by the Mission Maker as areas of interest.  Adding an intelligence with these elements may give the AI intelligence the type of information it requries to make sensible decisions in tune with the Mission Makers overall goals.

I'll have to think about it. If anyone else wants to chime in, I would be very happy.

-k

 

Keep up the great work!

[mickeymen 324]

Hi to all! Today, I had tests with AI behavior against helicopters using LAMBS danger FSM + LAMBS_RPG and I want to share the test results with the community and of course with the LAMBS developers.

I want to note right away, the purpose of my post is not a LAMBS criticism, but the possibility of improving it, the desire for developers to pay attention to the problems it has. 

I really appreciate the work of the guys from the LAMBS team, especially at a time when BIS has long buried any work with arma 3 AI. It's sad...

 

AI vs Helicopters and AI Suppresion agains air targets

 

So, after an hour of testing, I still couldn't wait for the AI can be abble to hit into the helicopter using the RPG-7!

I had at least 10 tests, for this reason, unfortunatelly, I want to say that LAMBS RPG is a completely does not work against air targets. Zero hits on 10 tests. AI just wastes its ammo.

 

In order not to be unfounded, I wrote down one of dozens of my tests, in which I placed two opposing factions.

Note, I increased the AI level of the green ones, located on the ground, up to 80%, so they are experienced fighters.

Anyone can try to create their own test using the editor and a drop of their desire.

 

One of my saved tests, In other tests, I had no difference.:

 

 

The problems that we can see:

 

1) Quite often, the AI will continue to suppress the empty sky, where the helicopter was several tens of seconds ago, with its back to the enemy target.
Proposed solution to the problem: Divide the suppression targets into air and ground targets. For aerial targets, create conditions under which the AI will cease to suppress empty space. Probably you can make the suppression of air targets shorter.

2) Using RPG-7 against helicopters, the AI will have zero hitting accuracy. He's just wasting ammo.

Prospective solution to the problem:
Create a high hit chance or even 100% hit chance only under certain conditions, for example, when the distance to an enemy helicopter and shooter is "< X" meters and speed of air target "< X".

3) Using RPG-7 against helicopters, when the helicopter flew over the gunner and flew off into the distance, the AI will let the helicopter pass in front of him and will shoot after him, from huge distances, Instead using shots when the helicopter is close, before him! It looks extremely illogical

Suggested solution to the problem: Disable RPG firing if the air target is "> X" meters away. You can create conditions for a shot from the RPG in the form of a fire-window. For example, a air target within from 50 meters to 150 meters.

4) The RPG-7 projectiles that have been fired and who had a miss, will explode in the empty sky, it looks strange. Probably a vanilla projectile lifespan ...

Suggested solution to the problem: Increase the life time of the RPG-7 projectile. Or remove the FX blast effect, if it missed the target.

 

I hardly understand how LAMBS works, for this reason, you can be skeptical about my proposals.

I think the LAMBS team will be able to find their own solutions, and I hope the guys from LAMBS will turn their attention to the problems.

 

Cheers!

[Nicolai 10]

On 5/27/2021 at 12:36 PM, mickeymen said:

4) The RPG-7 projectiles that have been fired and who had a miss, will explode in the empty sky, it looks strange. Probably a vanilla projectile lifespan ...

Suggested solution to the problem: Increase the life time of the RPG-7 projectile. Or remove the FX blast effect, if it missed the target.

This is realistic behaviour, the projectile will self-detonate after about 1000m

 

Nikolai

[mickeymen 324]

3 hours ago, Nicolai said:

This is realistic behaviour, the projectile will self-detonate after about 1000m

How I understand detonation occurs only on contact with a solid target.

Maybe inside projectile there distance sensors or a timer located inside the projectile?

This is definitely not the case, especially if old shells from the 70s-80s are used.

[Nicolai 10]

1 hour ago, mickeymen said:

How I understand detonation occurs only on contact with a solid target.

Maybe inside projectile there distance sensors or a timer located inside the projectile?

This is definitely not the case, especially if old shells from the 70s-80s are used.

"Afghans sometimes used RPG-7s at extreme range, exploded by their 4.5-second self-destruct timer, which translates to roughly 950m flight distance,..."

From wiki

[AirShark 147]

2 hours ago, mickeymen said:

How I understand detonation occurs only on contact with a solid target.

Maybe inside projectile there distance sensors or a timer located inside the projectile?

This is definitely not the case, especially if old shells from the 70s-80s are used.

some round types has the piezoelectric fuze like the HE and HEAT others dont iirc 

[diwako 413]

Not sure why that was brought up here, we are not changing anything how rounds work, only what targets are allowed to be shot at.

[Devastator_cm 434]

What is the trick to let AI to obey the commands of the Zeus? In Zeus missions they act totally independent and making the life of zeus guys very hard

[redarmy 422]

4 hours ago, Devastator_cm said:

What is the trick to let AI to obey the commands of the Zeus? In Zeus missions they act totally independent and making the life of zeus guys very hard

I would say you should disable squad flanking/suppress buildings option in the config.I know this will make squads adhere to waypoints well enough,and obviously disable info sharing.

[Devastator_cm 434]

but that is not the real idea. It should still do such stuff but after a point where zeus guy decides to release the forced control on them.