Contact Starters

[haleks 8212]

51 minutes ago, Tonci87 said:

Well that depends on the level of technological advancement they have, doesn´t it?

 

If they are far more advanced than we are, then it is easier for them to discover us, than it is for us to discover them. If they are more advanced, they would have better equipment to scan for life, maybe they would even be capable of interstellar travel, something we won´t be able to do for a very very very long time.

 

Our technology could be too primitive to be detected from afar, leaving only discreet marks in space - our biggest habitat outside earth is the ISS...

That would make it very difficult for aliens to spot us, whereas an advanced civilization would leave a bigger trail - look at Tabby's Star and all the noise it made about Dyson spheres.

 

It's very much plausible that we would be the first to spot them.

 

EDIT : another thing to consider is relativity. The further aliens would be from earth, the less likely it is that we would be visible to them. Light takes time to travel, and on a bigger scale, mankind is very young - until very recently earth was essentially "dark".

[jeza 5416]

As eluded to previously depends on where there at but also if they do know we exist as an intelligent civilisation likely it would be through leakage of our technology i.e. radio signals in to space. That limits them to being within 100 light years (close by) as radio broadcasts I think were first introduced in the early 20th century, for them to answer back then they would have to be within 50 light years (50 for it to get there, 50 to direct a message at us). What all of this does assume is that they have a huge sensitive receiver that would pick up barely noticeable radio signals which leaked out. If I were to hazard a guess I doubt any intelligent civilisation out there knows we exist at the moment, they may well know there is life of earth but not technologically advanced life, I am kind of leaning toward we would pick something up from them due to the likelihood that their advanced technologies would 'stick out' more maybe like FRBs we are seeing. Very interesting subject regardless, with many hypothesis' worth looking into. 

[krzychuzokecia 717]

As @haleks and @jeza wrote - it's much easier for us to detect a signal from technologicaly advanced spacefaring race, than for them to detect us. And even the 100 lightyears range of our radio signals is very optimistic, because it doesn't take signal fading, and other issues of radio propagation, into account. Popular legend (attributed to Carl Sagan) about 1936 Olympics (and Hitler's speech) being the first signal that reached space is technically true, but that signal barely reached out of Earth atmosphere. Radio installations used to communicate with our Mars probes are very powerful transmitters operating in X band (super high frequency), and yet, the minimal range of those so-called deep space receivers is somewhere between 1-2 lightyears. This makes our cosmic footprint almost non-existent - what we call deep space is merely a backyard.

 

For them to find us, aliens would need to designate all the habitable star systems visible from their locations, and then send probes there, to check for any signs of activity. And pray to their alien god that our Solar system is one of those star systems visible from alien homeworld. On the other hand, our discovery of alien life is based on assumption that alien civilization produces and consumes energy in amounts so vast, that we're able to observe this from planet Earth. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) it may turn out that there are sentient beings in other parts of Universe, but they (just like us) are incapable of interstellar travel, or transmitting signals reaching through space to another world.

[Korneel 115]

Let's begin the new week with another Contact Starter:

 

Do you think that humanity should try to make or avoid First Contact? Why yes/why not?

 

As always you're also welcome to join this conversation on Facebook, Twitter, and reddit!

[Rydygier 1309]

I think, due to described earlier limitations, both physical and mental, it's rather irrelevant - to try or not, for it seems doomed to be a failure, unless some scientific breakthrough will turn upside down whole vision of what's impossible and why. Although it makes me monothematic, I must again refer to Lem's novels, one of them is exactly about such attempt and shows, why it is likely to be futile in Lem's opinion (the title sums it up):

 

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28766.Fiasco

 

Great book.

 

At least - probably futile as for intended result (fruitful contact), because the inclination towards such attempts, once an alien civilization will be observed, the curiosity, may be a good science progress motivator and this may be a reason, why trying may be beneficial regardless of the result or lack of it; even a failure can be learning experience if not about the aliens, then at least about ourselves... Unless those, who want to believe, aliens are hostile or unintentionally deadly, are right. 

 

 

[Tonci87 163]

Why does a Cockroach scurry away when you switch on the light? Because it knows that you are far too dangerous for it.

Humanity should avoid attracting any attention to itself until they have carefully assessed the threat that the aliens can pose.  

[Sanya 97]

Contact with them must be avoided, because they may turn out to be communist socialists, from whom earthlings may begin to lose toilet paper and laundry detergent.

[froggyluv 2136]

No matter how good our relations might become with Aliens, some asshole's always gonna throw a grenade in the meeting setting off yet again some violent conflict

[chrisb 196]

Yes, humankind should try and make contact with the visiting aliens.

 

They should converse if at all possible, show friendship and show that we are a welcoming race. After that sit them down and show them Arma, one thing they may be able to help us with is the 'ai'..

[Private Evans 498]

If you as an explorer would find a race of selfish, stupid, aggressive sometimes fanatical assholes governed by even bigger assholes, that is spending most of its resources trying to kill each other....would you make contact and maybe even share your super advanced technologies with them...or would you just stay the fuck away...

 

any high tech alien species finding us should act following the Starfleet ( Star Treck) Prime directive

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Directive

 

 

[Gunter Severloh 4054]

That would be the same concept of stepping back in time and not interfering or changing anything because it would change the evolution, good points Private Evans!

Then on the otherside we dont know what the story is behind contact and why or what is happening if or what "alien/s" are doing and why they are there, maybe doing something as resource gathering

and they end up being discovered, maybe being nefarious and interfering in someway, we wont know til we play and see what its all about.

[krzychuzokecia 717]

It seems to me (since we don't have any means of contacting aliens outside our Solar system) that the initiative is in alien... hands/receptors/whatever they use. But if an alien ship would arrive here and (seemingly) do nothing, then (for our own safety) we are obliged to research this alien presence. Afterall (for example) hostile alien civilization wouldn't need little green men with laser pistols to eradicate human population. If we would come up with some sort of understanding of what we're dealing with, then it's time to try to make a contact (if our earlier efforts were not met with any reaction). However, just like Rydygier, I expect this undertaking to fail.

 

Thing is - we really cannot stay passive because we don't have certainty that alien mothership is not really an alien bomb of magic death rays with delayed fuse. Not that we shouldn't prioritize safety of the researchers, and move carefully, but you're dealing with something you cannot comprehend, your first task should be to understand the problem. Without uderstanding, you cannot solve it.

 

On 6/28/2019 at 6:24 PM, Private Evans said:

If you as an explorer would find a race of selfish, stupid, aggressive sometimes fanatical assholes governed by even bigger assholes, that is spending most of its resources trying to kill each other....would you make contact and maybe even share your super advanced technologies with them...or would you just stay the fuck away...

What if aliens themself are a race of selfish, stupid, aggresive fanatical assholes? See - that's the problem with godlike alien vision of Carl Sagan and many sci-fi writers. You can't assume that technologicaly advanced form of life would suddenly become a sage of Universe, sort of a good uncle, always willing to help if kids are behaving nicely. And that's what enlightened sci-fi promotes, as opposed to pop sci-fi where aliens are always hostile green men. However in real life you hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

 

Also another question is if things we can get from aliens would really be of benefit to human race? What if initial progress would lead to change so deep, that humanity would stop being... human? Clarke's novel Childhood's End brings an interesting twist to the gifts from godlike aliens theme.

On 6/24/2019 at 3:30 PM, Rydygier said:

I must again refer to Lem's novels, one of them is exactly about such attempt and shows, why it is likely to be futile in Lem's opinion (the title sums it up)

+1 on that - Fiasco is better description of Lem's pessimism than Solaris (which ironically may be the reason why Solaris is more popular).

[vilas 477]

i wish if extraterestials were nymphomaniac sluts with only one thought in mind 😄

i would than be allow to be invaded 😄

 

btw. i seen youtube preview , new island, probably after many years i will restart/reinstal Arma3 again just to see it,

i wish that Arma3 (many years ago, before release) would be "realistic, 90s or modern" not future,

i do not like sci-fi in games such as Arma , but if A3 is sci-fi than aliens fit such game

 

people on YT claim to be abducted by aliens and tested  , lol , aliens spend milions bilions of kilometers just to put finger in ass of redneck in some state, lol, or to rape his cow, hehehe

 

i hope my version of A3 will have this DLC free or not ? nevermind that, i like island in preview video, because i like central Europe locations

 

i hope A4 will be realistic (90s, 2000s)

 

but being sincere and seriously - i wish i will not live in time when humans will not be only form of inteligent life , i wish never to see such news as something other exists, never, just like i would not like to see future like Year 1984, Terminator etc.

i think humanity should turn back the time a little and go back to more conservative ethic and more focus on making life good, just and safe than on discovering things that may later be regreted

 

we should never work on too much AI , we should never search of aliens, we should never work on immortality in medicine etc because evil bilionaries will use their money to become gods above us with such technology

 

[DnA 5143]

Another week, another Contact Starter:

 

When First Contact happens, how should the authorities go about sharing information with the public? Or why should they not?

 

In addition to this forums thread, you can also join the discussion on Facebook, Twitter, and reddit!

[Sanya 97]

What authorities, when on YT all information about it will be out sooner?

[Rydygier 1309]

Well, assuming it stays a secret, govs should gradually prepare society for acceptance of such shocking truth, for example via pop-culture, mainly movies.

 

They should start with familiarizing people with the concept of aliens itself using fairy tale-like movies, type of Star Wars or E.T., then introduce people into more complex, mature possibilities using motives similar to Star Trek or BSG, then start to accustom people with the closer to grim reality scenarios (Independence Day, X-Files, Aliens...) but also boost morale (Starship Troopers), finally introduce also games to the mixture to learn society how to behave in the face of such a threat with titles like XCOM, and as the last stage by introducing supposedly "fictitious" form of aliens into some realistic, military simulation to train people without causing a panic, how to actually fight those...

 

...

 

wait a minute... 

[Tonci87 163]

lol

 

 

OK, though to the question.

 

The first question that needs to be answered is do the aliens behave in a way that their presence can be kept a secret? If not, then authorities should share as much information as possible with the population to avoid...misunderstandings.

 

If it can be kept a secret, then they probably should do so for a time, both to control the flow of information, and also to prevent certain misunderstandings where some people immediately grab guns and want to purge some xeno scum in the name of the holy emp.... wait, wrong franchise. 

[lex__1 422]

The very moment when you planned to conquer the planet, and my mother asked for help to plant rice.😀

 

[haleks 8212]

On 7/1/2019 at 3:00 PM, DnA said:

When First Contact happens, how should the authorities go about sharing information with the public? Or why should they not?

 

 

I think we should consider 2 things when it comes to sharing or keeping informations secret : the ability to do so, and the past motivations to do so.

Authorities not divulging informations seldom act for the greater good, but rather to keep a strategic advantage, or to shield themselves from backlash (except for very specific instances, like court cases). There is almost never a good reason to sit on information outside of power plays (and I'm guessing that's exactly what's going to happen in the campaign).

As for the ability to keep secrets; I tend to think this would be impossible at best, dangerous at worst. I'm not talking about the visibility of aliens or anything like that, but rather the consequences of such an inconsiderate move : I can't imagine that information retention of any kind would go unnoticed in such a situation, and it would create division and rivalry during what would be the most critical event for mankind as a global species.

[Sanya 97]

The authorities will have to guard all places with aliens from crazy zombie pilgrims, because the information can not be hidden in any way. Such information can be hidden only if the contact occurs in space.

[Korneel 115]

This week's Contact Starter poses a big question:

 

How would a First Contact event change our current world order?

 

You can also join the discussion on our other channels: Facebook, Twitter, and reddit.

[instagoat 133]

As for why they would come, whatever the reason will be, it certainly won't be our water. Or Helium. Or any other resources. There is nothing to be found on earth that cannot be found elsewhere. And space is vast. People completely underestimate how blimmin vast space is. Currently, the estimate is that the average star has one planet (conservatively), which means a hundred billion planets, low ballpark. Leading to the second question, currently human life can be found (by radio sources) inside a bubble about 114 ly in radius (first radio broadcast in 1906), so any Aliens would need to be inside that bubble to find us in the first place. The inverse of that figure is, that as of now we have not found any similar radio sources in the sky that would indicate a technologically advanced civilization.

 

Of course, maybe they invented lasers before radio, so possibly they are using that to communicate, or maybe they haven't discovered wireless at all (So how do their spaceships communicate?). Lasers would at least be very obvious if they flash you, at vast distances. Another thing is that we have not seen any indicators of spaceships around nearby stars. For example, with current off the shelf sensors, you could easily see a rocket launch on earth out to jupiter. With a large enough sensor, you could figure out the type and size of a rocket lightyears away. Say, a large telescope with an IR camera.

Also important to remember that there is no stealth in space. Zilch, nada. If you are outside of a planetary atmosphere, you cannot hide, unless your temperature is 3° centigrade (background temperature of space). Which is impossible without cooling, which produces massive amounts of waste heat.

 

The interesting part about that is that we, as a civilization, have completely foregone hiding the fact that we are here. So if there -are- any aliens around, they certainly could feel motivated to do something about us: any sufficiently advanced civilization nearby has the potential to become life threatening to an entire planet. For example, they could use orbital lasers to drive relativistic projectiles across interplanetary distances to hit you with.

 

Which also means that, as far as space warfare economy goes, an invasion force is probably the least effective way to go about killing something on another planet. Just take a large piece of space trash and accelerate it using lasers, and nuke the site from your own orbit.

 

Hard scifi reasons for space invasions are really really tough to come by. There probably are none. There is nothing here worth taking, they know we are here by default because of the radio waves and recent changes in the heat output across the planet (from a large scale industrial base, as well as rocket launches.), and if they wanted to hurt us, it is more economical to not be here in person and send a bunch of high speed rocks instead.

 

Depressing 😞

[jeza 5416]

Re sharing information to the public or keep it a secret is a non starter, if you're talking a radio signal or optical one you can't keep it a secret unless you turn off every radio observatory on the planet, also SETI who look for these signals the main point in their detection procedure is to confirm a candidate signal with observatories around the world. This has happened actually on a few occasions one in 97' I think it was where the signal was confirmed by all other radio observatories and they thought it to be the real deal, only to find out it was actually coming from a french satellite other occasions are all unknowns as the signal does not repeat, regardless if we're talking this method of detection its impossible to 'cover up'.  

[Korneel 115]

Why have we not yet made First Contact with alien life? Where is everybody?

 

 

Share your theory in this thread - or join the conversation on Facebook, Twitter, and/or reddit!

[Tonci87 163]

Too damn far away.

 

Space is so unbelievably vast that we struggle to grasp the distances involved.