snkman 351 Posted April 29, 2019 @tanin69 Quote It's very confusing for me at the moment. I try simple questions to clarify True... Well the base idea was to make A.I. use T.C.L. against player(s) only to keep a good engine performance and save additional code execution with combat situations where no player(s) are involved ( A.I. vs A.I. ). A.I. vs A.I. was requested and after testing it i really liked the way of how it worked. Quote - AI vs AI -> TCL features will be used by AI groups of both sides as far as they are under TCL control, right ? All TCL features ? Some of them ? Right now by default A.I. will react to every enemy no matter if player or A.I. as soon as A.I. is enemy to another unit / group they will use the entire T.C.L. system. So in 1 mission you could have EAST vs WEST vs RESISTANCE with multiple A.I. group(s) where each A.I. group will be able to request reinforcement(s) friendly to their side and enemy to their enemy(s). Only features not used/triggered by A.I. are: - A.I. React to Weapon Fire - A.I. React to Suppressive Fire those features are restricted to player(s) only because they use some very expensive calculations and will be triggered every time a bullet was fired. Quote - AI vs player/playable/switchable -> TCL features will be used by opponent AI as far as they are TCL controlled, right ? Yes. But if you like to have A.I. vs Player(s) only you need to disable A.I. vs A.I. in the "TCL_System.sqf" settings. // T.C.L. Combat System: ( Initialize ) // ------------------------------------------------------------ // Choose ( False ) to initialize the A.I. combat system for player(s) and playableUnit(s) only. // True / False, default is True // TCL_System set [2, True]; Quote - AI vs AI vs players -> same as above, depending on game setup (independant alligeance, mainly), right ? Yap. You can have all in 1 mission. A.I. vs A.I. and at the same time A.I. vs player and vice versa. A.I. will react to every threat by using the entire T.C.L. system. Quote If this is the case, well, it's very simple : TCL is used for all groups ! But I suspect something more subtile 🤔 Yes thats the case! Expect the unexpected! To make it very simple A.I. vs Enemy! @Jimi Markkanen Thanks! Quote - Is it possible to make Ai garrison a building with hold waypoint? (Like in Vcom) It's quite essential. Nope so far i don't use any waypoints but you could initialize A.I. group(s) by using the "Hold" group type with a trigger covering the building they are garrison. This will make the A.I. group kind of stay within the building. If this is what you are after? Quote - Is it serversided? I don't care about the sound effects etc that much, I know that's clientsided for sure. Yap all the A.I. stuff is server side only! @ZackTactical34 Quote Though, this is one area that definitely needs improvement (i.e. when AI don’t have a specific WP). Both me and Chris noticed the AI won’t use buildings as often as they probably should. I had engaged troops from inside a building and they would not enter it for some reason. Obviously a WIP. Well if A.I. has LOS they will try to engage from outside of the building. But yes i will test it and see what happend. Quote The other thing is that AI movement is on and off in open terrain. Sometimes they maneuver and other times they stay in the same position. Too bad... Yes this was and still is 1 of my all time biggest problems since i've started with this mod... I can't tell what exactly triggers this... Guess some kind of bug or engine related thing where A.I. mess up formation and wait for a unit of the group to catch up formation or something like this... I've seen A.I. refuse to move in almost every situation possible for no reason... Stuck in the middle of nowhere all open areas. As soon as you start attacking them they start moving again... I tested it 1000 time with vanilla... Same behaviour... Pretty annoying i can tell... A.I. a love story! All the hardcoded micro A.I. combat behaviour stuff really sometimes makes it very hard to get A.I. to do exactly what they are supposed to do. B.t.w. do you use any other A.I. mods combined with T.C.L.? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dallas Medina 50 Posted April 29, 2019 I played around with the demo missions last night, I found the AI accuracy to be very high. I also tried the location one, with the enemy chopper. I took a pot shot at the chopper on the ground and the crew and paratroops got out. It never dropped paratroopers on my pos. Also a huge bug (imo) is the enemy artillery will fire on my last known pos while an enemy squad is also rushing to my last known pos. I watched the enemy mortar friendly-fire kill 4 of their own dudes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tanin69 17 Posted April 29, 2019 Thank you, snkman. I've completed the FAQ with your answer (see https://github.com/Arma-TCL-TypeX/TCL-TypeX-docs/wiki/FAQ#against-which-groups-will-tcl-will-be-used-) On 4/20/2019 at 10:45 PM, snkman said: Quote Same question on color codes on the map view about group/unit markers : red, yellow, green, blue : I'm confused with it ! Guess i would be confused as well if i would not have made it myself... Well... Red = A.I. group leader. Yellow = None A.I. group leader. Green = A.I. group(s) which are using any specific A.I. group types e.g. A.I. Hold Group(s), A.I. Defend Group(s), A.I. Location Group(s) and so on... If A.I. unit(s) are in a vehicle: White = Driver Blue = Gunner This seems partially broken : - Many green units with no special order : they are in groups with no order at all, so they should be "TCL_Combat" behavior - Many blue units that are not driver neither in any vehicle : there is no vehicle in this mission. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snkman 351 Posted April 30, 2019 @Dallas Medina Thanks for your feedback! Yes A.I. accuracy has been already mentioned many times... Guess i will add a setting to manuelly lower it. Right now you could simply disable the additional A.I. skills in the settings. Go to "UserConfig > TCL > TCL_System.sqf": Enable the setting ( by removing the // in front of the setting ) and set it to False as shown below. // ------------------------------------------------------------ // T.C.L. Skills: ( System ) // ------------------------------------------------------------ // Choose if A.I. unit(s) should use advanced skills. // True / False, default is True TCL_System set [4, False]; This will make A.I. use Vanilla skills. Quote I took a pot shot at the chopper on the ground and the crew and paratroops got out. Well if you shoot the chopper A.I. will not start to fly! If the chopper is grounded and A.I. crew is aware of an enemy they will just get out. Instead the chopper should be requested as reinforcement to take off fly to your position and than there will be a chance to see paratroops jump out! @tanin69 Quote This seems partially broken : Nope thats fine! You see the "Take Cover" in the markers? Well the green markers are the A.I. unit(s) and the blue markers are the assigned cover positions. Also the numbers in the blue markers are the A.I. unit(s) distance to the cover position. Yeah again... Confusing stuff i did there! @ZackTactical34 Thanks for your feedback. Quote Turns out that the AI will move in open terrain as long as you're not part of the actual fireteam (i.e. separate player). Oh well A.I. group(s) with player(s) in it never was supposed to use any of the A.I. features. Just in case player(s) lead A.I. group(s) they should keep controle of them i guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Defunkt 431 Posted April 30, 2019 As he doesn't have a command bar showing I assume he's a team member rather than the leader, in which case I'd have thought the TCL features should be enabled (for all AI group members)? Were he the leader I'd agree that AI should keep rough formation until commanded otherwise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snkman 351 Posted April 30, 2019 Yes true... But well... That's how it is right now. As soon as a player is part of an A.I. group the group will be excluded. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snkman 351 Posted April 30, 2019 Tactical Combat Link - ( TypeX ) v.1.0.21============================================== This update mainly focuse on adding more realism to Tactical Combat Link. Many things have been changed and tweaked. This update includes the "TCL_System.pbo" / "UserConfig" / "ReadMe" only! Update your current full T.C.L. ( v.1.0.19 ) by overwriting the "@TCL > AddOns > TCL_System.pbo". Delete the ( v.1.0.19 ) TCL folder in UserConfig and copy > past the TCL ( v.1.0.21 ) folder into UserConfig folder. If you don't have the full T.C.L. ( v.1.0.19 ) installed you will have to download and install it first! Download: ( drive.google.com ) Tactical Combat Link - ( TypeX ) v.1.0.21 Enjoy! 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Defunkt 431 Posted April 30, 2019 3 hours ago, snkman said: That's how it is right now. Fair enough. Just in case that should change in the future I'd actually expand on my previous thought by suggesting that even when the player is the group leader TCL features might still be enabled whenever, and for as long as, Combat Mode is set to WHITE/RED (i.e. Engage at Will). "Pursue targets by seeking a position that allows for a possible firing solution on the target. The AI does not keep formation and each member moves individually. The leader command Disengage will set the units back to (GREEN/YELLOW)." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
froggyluv 2136 Posted April 30, 2019 Quote ( System ) A.I. Skill: Enhanced A.I. general enemy knowledge and reinforcement request time calculation by using A.I. group(s) leader ( general / courage / commanding ) skills. ~Changelog Sweet, thanks for adding this. Huge proponent of AI Skill levels effecting these kinda variables/intangibles - can lead to a more strategic played Arma ie. "Enemy in this area are known to be poorly trained..." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snkman 351 Posted April 30, 2019 @Defunkt Quote Just in case that should change in the future I'd actually expand on my previous thought by suggesting that even when the player is the group leader TCL features might still be enabled Well i've tested this right now. So far i never thought of doing it like this but yeah you are right! It's much better and much more fun to be part of a T.C.L. A.I. group. Have to do some more testing but so far it all looks pretty good! Edit: Well there will be some limitations. If the leader of an A.I. group is a player the scrip commands have no effect. So A.I. group with A.I. leader and player will work. @froggyluv I have to thank you and the community / users in general for all the great suggestions and ideas! They turned a pretty limited A.I. mod to something really big i guess! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragonfire43560 27 Posted April 30, 2019 Hi guys, just to make sure I installed this right. I stuck both the @TCL folder and the UserConfig ( I think thats what it was called?) in the main arma 3 directory. DO I have to load the @TCL folder as a local mod with the arma 3 launcher? Or just use the launch parameter included in the readme? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snkman 351 Posted April 30, 2019 If you install it the first time you have to download and install the full T.C.L. mod ( v.1.0.19 ) first! T.C.L. v.1.0.19 Copy the @TCL folder into your ARMA 3 root folder. Next download the T.C.L. v.1.0.21 update and cope the UserConfig folder into your ARMA 3 root folder. Last step is to overwrite ( update ) the "TCL_System.pbo" from v.1.0.19 to v.1.0.21. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragonfire43560 27 Posted April 30, 2019 Oh oops, i didnt do that. So whats the correct way of loading the mods? Do I have to add it as a local mod with the arma 3 launcher? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Defunkt 431 Posted April 30, 2019 55 minutes ago, snkman said: Have to do some more testing but so far it all looks pretty good! Edit: Well there will be some limitations. If the leader of an A.I. group is a player the scrip commands have no effect. So A.I. group with A.I. leader and player will work. Thanks so much, really excited to try with this capability enabled (nothing like fighting alongside purposeful teammates). The stated limitations might yet be resolvable through some parameter to DisableAI. Even if not I could well see myself scripting some sort of keybind that would promote another squad member to leader for the purpose of permitting independent action with a matching command to return leadership when desired (another approach might be to leave and rejoin the group as required). Thanks again! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
domokun 515 Posted April 30, 2019 51 minutes ago, snkman said: If you install it the first time you have to download and install the full T.C.L. mod ( v.1.0.19 ) first! T.C.L. v.1.0.19 Copy the @TCL folder into your ARMA 3 root folder. Next download the T.C.L. v.1.0.21 update and cope the UserConfig folder into your ARMA 3 root folder. Last step is to overwrite ( update ) the "TCL_System.pbo" from v.1.0.19 to v.1.0.21. @snkman I realise that editing userconfig allows users to configure TCL to fit their tastes (been doing it like this for TPW for years now) but is there anyway for users to access these settings via in-game interface, e.g. CBA? Because if you hosted TCL on SWS I think that you'd get less requests like this 🙄 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Defunkt 431 Posted April 30, 2019 I'd much prefer not to have a dependency on CBA. Given SWS downloads to a known/consistent folder (@Mod_Name) the default settings file could just be downloaded with the mod into that path (AFAIK there's nothing special about 'UserConfig'). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snkman 351 Posted April 30, 2019 @Defunkt Quote Thanks so much, really excited to try with this capability enabled (nothing like fighting alongside purposeful teammates). No problem. Once again glad to see what other people like to do or expect from T.C.L. and how they expect it to work. @domokun Quote I realise that editing userconfig allows users to configure TCL to fit their tastes (been doing it like this for TPW for years now) but is there anyway for users to access these settings via in-game interface, e.g. CBA? Yeah would be a dream for me as well to have some in-game ( UI ) options for the settings. Adding some of the settings directly to the Eden Editor A.I. group composition field or stuff like this... With drop down or slider to change things on the fly... But well sad to say that i really don't have any skills when it come to work with display resources and stuff like this... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
domokun 515 Posted May 1, 2019 13 hours ago, snkman said: @domokun Yeah would be a dream for me as well to have some in-game ( UI ) options for the settings. Adding some of the settings directly to the Eden Editor A.I. group composition field or stuff like this... With drop down or slider to change things on the fly... But well sad to say that i really don't have any skills when it come to work with display resources and stuff like this... I really hope that other modders who have exprience in in-game menus (Enhanced Movement? ACE? RHS?) can help you because this would be a HUGE improvement as it would allow users to modify variables on fly rather than quitting the game & manually editing cfg files. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snkman 351 Posted May 1, 2019 Quote it would allow users to modify variables on fly rather than quitting the game & manually editing cfg files. You don't have to quit the game to apply changes! Just change the settings to your needs and reload / restart the mission! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldy41 61 Posted May 1, 2019 @snkman: I have just tested the new version and must say: It is impressive! 👏 🤗 The most immersive firefights ever, and without the superhumanly exact knowledge of AI about yout position. This really feels 'real' now! However (how I hate to be a nag) I think there is still a small bug in your routine for decreasing AI knowledge about the player (and sorry for the lengthy description): I used my "counter-APC" test setup mentioned earlier as a testbed: - An Opfor AI APC without fuel behind a huge viewblock between the player and the APC. - The whole APC and its turret initially facing away from the player. - An Opfor AI infantry group to the other side of the player of initially 6 units. => The APC turret does NOT rotate towards the player, even after the player is seen by the Opfor infantry. (Fine!) => After engaging the AI infantry and reducing their strength to 3 still no visible reaction form the APC. (Fine with me, though the shots would probably have been heard IRL.) Player then sneaking to a side of the view block to gain LOS of the APC. Player then putting a few rifle shots at the APC. => The APC reacts. Its turret turns towards the player. (Fine!) Player now rushes behind view block again. => APC turret is still watching the position where it had last seen the player. (Great!!!) Player now moves to the other end of the view block to sneak the APC from its other side. => APC still watching the first LOS. (Great!) Player now shooting at the APC again with the rifle. Now something funny happens: => The APC quickly reacts, but its turret rotates towards the new player position for about a second only, then rotates back to its previous position watching the outdated LOS. This behavior is repeated several times. The APC cannot manage to complete turret rotation to face the current player position, but is always forced to rotate back again. I suspect the routine for decreasing the knowledge about the initial player sighting might still be active, and interferring with the new threat? Renewing the outdated knowledge or renewing the "watch direction" command or something like that every few seconds? But let me emphasize again, that the new version is still fantastic! Many thanks for all the efforts you are investing in this mod! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snkman 351 Posted May 1, 2019 @oldy41 Thanks! Glad to hear you are happy with it so far. Quote However (how I hate to be a nag) I think there is still a small bug in your routine for decreasing AI knowledge about the player (and sorry for the lengthy description): Damn... You're really getting after the details! But! Even those little details will help to improve the mod in general! To be honest... Guess i would never found this! Well thanks for you full detailed description of the problem. Makes it a lot easyer for me to reproduce it. I will check this asap! Thanks! Edit: Okay did some tests and for me it works as it should. I build up 2 viewblockers in front and behind the A.P.C. to teleport myself between them. After i was spotted by the A.P.C. he start aiming on me and starts shooting. Than i teleported to the other viewblocker... The A.P.C. was still aiming to my old position. After shooting the A.P.C. from the other direction he turned his turret to me and start shooting again. I did this multiple times and as i can tell he always aimed correctly without switching back to my old position. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muecke 114 Posted May 1, 2019 Hi, tested the new version. Got this error many times and wanted to report it. 20:15:09 Error in expression <ariable "TCL_Take_Cover"); if (time > (_array select 0) ) then { private _time > 20:15:09 Error position: <_array select 0) ) then { private _time > 20:15:09 Error Undefined variable in expression: _array 20:15:09 File TCL_System\TCL\TCL_Feature_F\TCL_Take_Cover_F.sqf, line 63 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldy41 61 Posted May 2, 2019 17 hours ago, snkman said: Edit: Okay did some tests and for me it works as it should. I build up 2 viewblockers in front and behind the A.P.C. to teleport myself between them. After i was spotted by the A.P.C. he start aiming on me and starts shooting. Than i teleported to the other viewblocker... The A.P.C. was still aiming to my old position. After shooting the A.P.C. from the other direction he turned his turret to me and start shooting again. I did this multiple times and as i can tell he always aimed correctly without switching back to my old position. I repeated my tests, and could nail it down a bit more, but it looks like the conditions leading to the effect I described are more complex. So I think you can ignore that problem, as it should not be too prominent in missions. Just for the records: The effect I described seems to be related both - the presence of the Opfor AI infantry watching group. - and the setup of the surroundings (i.e. positioning of view blocks) (???) Both removing the watching infantry group as well as rearranging the view blocks did remove the effect. (I am a bit confused here, cause I cannot imagine how the removal of some view blocks, which are never blocking LOS for any of the involved units can play a role here, but that may just be a trick of the engine...) So, now I am just going off to have fun with the mod! 😀 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
