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snkman

Tactical Combat Link - TypeX

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@AirShark

 

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in GL4 there is a feature that annoyed me a lot, where Ai was able to shoot Helicopters and aircrafts with AT launchers

Can't remember to have such a feature in GL4?

Also T.C.L. does not use any fire or doTarget command.

The way of how A.I. pick / assign their target(s) and engage them is pure vanilla.

This is an example of what i mean by "Modding A.I. as close as possible to their native engine A.I. behaviour".

Wouldn't make any sense if the ARMA A.I. engine tells them to attack this and by script command they are told to attack something else.

 

The A.I. team of B.I.S. was trying to make their vanilla A.I. smarter by adding specific A.I. combat behaviours to them.

This is pretty good for ppl using ARMA 3 without any mods else they would face really stupid A.I.

On the other hand all this hardcoded B.I.S. A.I. combat behaviour sometimes makes it pretty hard to get A.I. to do what they should do.

A command like "_unit disableAI 'Brain' " to make A.I. doing absolutely nothing would be a dream to me.

 

Well to be honest that's how i play too.

If there is a enmy helicopter flying to my position i 1. try to shoot it down with whatever i have AT / AA doesn't matter and if i missed i try to kill the pilote with my primary to make the helicopter crash! :icon2:

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TESTING UPDATE: v1021

 

I have been playing with the Arma/Userconfig/TCL settings (note: Arma has to start with -filepatching to access this data).

Sometimes you really want stuff to stay in place! (Already covered may times in this forum).

 

TCL_AI.sqf / Disable (Move) = True [default = False].

TCL_AI.sqf / Disable (Reinforce) = True [default = False].

 

Otherwise,

 

TCL_AI.sqf / Reinforcement Request (Knowledge), really make a huge difference to the fire-fight. I like it at '2' [0-4;default=0] as it slows down reinforcement requests and at the same time produces a probing assault. THIS SEEMS TO BE A VERY SIGNIFICANT VARIABLE! 
TCL_Radio.sqf / Time, adjusts the speed of reinforcement. Try setting it to '0'(!)

TCL_Radio.sqf / Distance, I tweaked to stop units being pulled from the other side of the map.  Moving a tank 5km (to me) is a Zeus/Commander thing - but that is the game I play.

FEEDBACK

Once the mission has started and the TCL variable for each unit have been init'd.  It seems that they are fixed.
In Zeus, I tried 'group this setVariable ["TCL_Combat", True];' on a unit in a group set to TCL_Hold. I don't think it changes behaviour.

 

Basically, I wanted to move units around the battlefield strategically, but found this very difficult.

 

Development thoughts (just throwing them out there),

  • As a commander, you want a group to go to the designated waypoint (even disengaged to do so). TCL could favour waypoints within the movement algorithm.
     
  • It would be useful for TCL groups to respond to init changes through Zeus. Maybe it does, I just couldn't confirm it?
     
  • Might it be possible for TCL to only affect a particular Faction (i.e. only OPFOR because the player is controlling BLUEFOR). This way you can Zeus-in OPFOR units and ( through Zeus) 'init' BLUEFOR units as 'TCL_Enhanced'.
    Better perhaps, to be able to automatically set the 'init' status of all units in a faction (i.e set all OPFOR units to 'TCL_Combat or Aware' and all BLUEFOR units to 'TCL_Enhanced').
 
Finally,
 
I remain hugely impressed with TCL, which consistently delivers 30 – 40 FPS more than other (well known) AI MODS.
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@Machiya

Many thank's for sharing your tweaks and results! :thumbs-up:

 

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TCL_Radio.sqf / Time, adjusts the speed of reinforcement. Try setting it to '0'(!)

This will make A.I. request reinforcement(s) instantly! As soon as enemy(s) were spotted! :icon2:

This value was made to simulate the time A.I.unit(s) of A.I. group(s) need to communicate with each other and finally request reinforcement(s) by radio.

 

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In Zeus, I tried 'group this setVariable ["TCL_Combat", True];' on a unit in a group set to TCL_Hold. I don't think it changes behaviour.

"TCL_Combat" does not exist!

Guess you refer to the ReadMe.pdf where it said default T.C.L. group(s) = Combat group(s)?

Also if you like to use "setVariable" in Zeus to change the A.I. group type it has to be done right bevore the given A.I. group will be initialized by T.C.L.

The T.C.L. group types will be checked once only as soon as the group gets initialized!

 

Quote

As a commander, you want a group to go to the designated waypoint (even disengaged to do so). TCL could favour waypoints within the movement algorithm.

I already did some more testing with Zeus and i can see what you are looking for!

Just have to find a good easy solution for this... Still... Thinking... Thinking... :headscratch:

If only there would be something i could catch with scripting commands which clearly tells if the A.I. unit(s) / group(s) were Zeus placed A.I. unit(s) / group(s) or not would make it so much easy...

 

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It would be useful for TCL groups to respond to init changes through Zeus. Maybe it does, I just couldn't confirm it?

Which init do you mean?

The A.I. group init?

 

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Might it be possible for TCL to only affect a particular Faction

Damn... Already had something like this back in the days... Sure i will re-implement it. :thumbs-up:

 

Well look's like you fully understood how T.C.L. works and how to use it! :icon5:

Very nice Machiya! :thumbs-up:

Guess an Zeus exclusive ( TCL_Zeus.sqf ) setting fild would be the best.

 

I'm not using Zeus too much even if it's a really mind blowing ARMA 3 feature.

Guess i can tell that i'm kind of old school grown up with good old OFP / ARMA 2D editor lol.

So far to me the 3D Eden Editor is my personal Nr. 1 tool ever when it comes to features B.I.S. created for ARMA series.

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3 hours ago, snkman said:

This will make A.I. request reinforcement(s) instantly! As soon as enemy(s) were spotted! :icon2:

 

Yeah, I made that mistake...

 

3 hours ago, snkman said:

Also if you like to use "setVariable" in Zeus to change the A.I. group type it has to be done right bevore the given A.I. group will be initialized by T.C.L.

The T.C.L. group types will be checked once only as soon as the group gets initialized!

 

It's the "checked once only" bit I think I am getting to.
TCL favours 'pre-arranged' missions over more Zeus like environments.
Got it.

 

3 hours ago, snkman said:

I already did some more testing with Zeus and i can see what you are looking for!

Just have to find a good easy solution for this... Still... Thinking... Thinking... :headscratch:

If only there would be something i could catch with scripting commands which clearly tells if the A.I. unit(s) / group(s) were Zeus placed A.I. unit(s) / group(s) or not would make it so much easy...

 

Those are beautiful thoughts...

 

3 hours ago, snkman said:

Damn... Already had something like this back in the days... Sure i will re-implement it. :thumbs-up:

 

Great news - just a big fat faction on/off switch/cull would be awesome. Better, to be able to set the TCL_Status of a Faction (e.g. TCL_Enhanced for a Zeus game).

 

3 hours ago, snkman said:

Well look's like you fully understood how T.C.L. works and how to use it! :icon5:

Very nice Machiya! :thumbs-up:

Guess an Zeus exclusive ( TCL_Zeus.sqf ) setting fild would be the best.

 

I'm not using Zeus too much even if it's a really mind blowing ARMA 3 feature.

Guess i can tell that i'm kind of old school grown up with good old OFP / ARMA 2D editor lol.

So far to me the 3D Eden Editor is my personal Nr. 1 tool ever when it comes to features B.I.S. created for ARMA series.

 

Very kind of you to say -- I must say I really love what TCL brings to ARMA.
I'm old time gamer -- but only got to ARMA with ARMA 3 (post Zeus), so its been there all along.


In a Zeus led game, you have to turn off TCL movement and reinforcements ('cos as Zeus you control these things).

 

I think I have hit the three key area that might facilitate turning this back on.

 

  1. Excluding (or better still specifying the <TCL_Status> of) a Faction (using the faction code???).
     
  2. Prioritising the latest WP (as opposed to back-tracking the pre TCL movement WP) or better disengaging when a WP is given (i.e. your commander is telling a group to do something specific).  It could be a WP Priority Flag or %bias?  It would favour 'live' / ' active' WP making.
    [ps. this might have to un-garrison units too].
     
  3. Re polling a units TCL_Status, which would allow it to be changed in Zeus using <group this setVariable ["TCL_???Status???", True];>  In which case, one might need TCL_Combat and TCL_Aware ;0)

---


Lastly, a complete aside, I am not seeing alot of soldiers using FAKs or Re-arming (aka running around with pistols).
If that is hard-coded BIS... err, it not exactly 5 x 5 (Loud and Clear).


 

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DAMN IT!!!

Just found a ton of Curator / Zeus scripting commands!!!

I have no clue how exactly their locallity is but this should not be the problem.

Right now in SP they start working just greate!

 

What i did so far is:

If Zeus A.I. group(s) have waypoint(s) they will be fully ignored by the T.C.L. A.I. movement system.

As soon as you delete their last live editor placed waypoint T.C.L. will take controle of the A.I. group(s) again!

 

Machiya you are my man when it comes to T.C.L. + Zeus.

So what exactly would be the best way of how to handle it?

 

Think the way of how i made it right now should be pretty good so far?

Zeus A.I. group(s) without live placed waypoint(s) = T.C.L. controlled and as soon as you place live waypoint(s) = User / Zeus controlled.

What do you think?

Damn now everything is possible! Just tell me what you need! :icon2:

 

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In a Zeus led game, you have to turn off TCL movement and reinforcements ('cos as Zeus you control these things).

Well T.C.L. controlled A.I. movement and reinforcement request(s) could stay disabled even with this new Zeus system i'm working on.

Also guess those specific group types like "TCL_Hold" / "TCL_Defense" and so on would not be needed anymore in a live game!

Just give the created Zeus A.I. group 1 waypoint and it will be excluded from the T.C.L. A.I. movement system.

 

Quote

Lastly, a complete aside, I am not seeing alot of soldiers using FAKs or Re-arming (aka running around with pistols).

True... I've seen a lot of pistole using A.I. unit(s) as well after some time of testing.

Maybe i was wrong with the hardcoded re-arming stuff but A.I. self healing definitely is there.

You can see it in the T.C.L. debug markers when A.I. unit(s) current command switches to "Healing".

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Just run into some problems today...

Sadly my ai stopped reacting to players. They almost do not fire back. They do not try anything to get in cover and act like they have no plan.

This seems to start happening since i updated to v1.021.

Any ideas where i can look after? I updated all of the UserConfig and reaconfigured them back like it had it before.

I was using AI preset 1 while i was testing on a dedicated server.

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3 hours ago, snkman said:

What i did so far is:

If Zeus A.I. group(s) have waypoint(s) they will be fully ignored by the T.C.L. A.I. movement system.

As soon as you delete their last live editor placed waypoint T.C.L. will take control of the A.I. group(s) again!

 

Bingo -- that's definitely the main thing!

Occasionally, TCL groups will have to un-garrison to move (do they re-garrison if they are way-pointed on a building?)

 

Working through the process,

  • Normal editor stuff. Press play.
  • Re-direct units with WPs (as above). Basically, the groups act more like TCL_Enhanced whilst responding to a WP -- would they automatically, switch back to 'Aware'?
    Might be a bit odd if they are under fire? How they transition between TCL and WP (esp. under fire) may or may not need looking at.

After that,

 

If we can use BIS 'hold' WP then we probably don't need to tweak TCL_Status in Zeus ---as units will HOLD (as the WP never completes).

 

If not, then it would be good to be able to change the <TCL_status> of a unit. Best would be via the Zeus side menu's drag and drop 'buttons'. For example, removing TCL_Hold from a unit.

 

After that, its about 'finessing the groups 'micro' actions' by directing the group to do something (making it easier for a Zeus  to keep control of the battlefield), say,

  • Mount closest static.
  • Smoke, Disengage and Fallback (say 300m).
  • Stop standing in the open and take cover (not so much with TCl thankfully, but a common AI habit).
  • select an Arty, Mortar or Tank unit and then map-click an area to fire at or suppress
  • Re-arm ;0)

I could use all of these.

 

Stuff that would make the AI seem even more alive to the players. A bit of sleight of hand that would make TCL feel even better.
I'm sure other people can add thoughts!

 

However,

 

It is important to keep all of this this in the AI arena.  Don't let TCL bloat.  You have 30-40 fps over the competition at the moment. 

For example, the Achilles MOD has a nice reinforcement workflow -- no need to replicate it (FYI, I run TCL with Achilles).

 

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Tested the .21 version. Only TCL+CBA. It seems artillery would not fire (only when directly attacked) and helicopters full with squads would never fly in to support.

Do static weapon team deploy their weapons? Thank you!
8fMGoa5.jpg

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@Dragon_GER

Quote

I was using AI preset 1 while i was testing on a dedicated server.

What exactly do you mean by this? A.I. preset 1?

Maybe you messed something up in the TCL settings? They have been changed a lot from v.1.0.19 to v.1.0.21!

 

@Machiya

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Occasionally, TCL groups will have to un-garrison to move (do they re-garrison if they are way-pointed on a building?)

Already working on this part. :icon5:

 

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Re-direct units with WPs (as above). Basically, the groups act more like TCL_Enhanced whilst responding to a WP -- would they automatically, switch back to 'Aware'?
Might be a bit odd if they are under fire? How they transition between TCL and WP (esp. under fire) may or may not need looking at.

Well right now Zeus live placed A.I. unit(s) / group(s) will be initialized like normal T.C.L. combat A.I. group(s).

They will use all of the T.C.L. A.I. combat features but their movement will be under full controle of Zeus as long as they have any live generated waypoint(s).

So Zeus A.I. with live placed waypoint(s) will be like T.C.L. A.I. except for the main A.I. group movement which in this case is controlled by Zeus user ( Person which created the live placed A.I. unit(s) / group(s) ).

 

@b0s

Thanks already fixed! :thumbs-up:

 

 

 

 

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Well some showcase of the upcoming T.C.L. v.1.0.23!

Damn lot of stuff has been changed and improved.

Most of the T.C.L. A.I. feature(s) and main A.I. system(s) have been reworked and changed of how they work.

Still no quite sure of how exacly it will be in the release version but so far it all looks pretty damn good!

A.I. artillery has been re-coded to use realistic ( engine based ) firing range calculations by using artillery computers of given A.I. artillery type.

Also as long as A.I. artillery is firing ( A.I. Mortar + A.I. Vehicle(s) ) A.I. unit(s) / group(s) will not advance to their enemy(s) position and keep some safe distance to A.I. artillery firing position(s).

 

This video shows:

A.I. Artillery request.

A.I. Static Weapon usage. ( MG + Mortar )

A.I. Enhanced cover usage.

A.I. Reinforcement(s) vehicle usage.

 

Player has been set to immortal else this video would be over very quickly! :icon1:

T.C.L. A.I. Radio time ( TCL_Radio select 1 ) was set to 10 seconds to trigger A.I. artillery request feature fast.

 

 

Enjoy! :icon2:

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That is some seriously AWESOME stuff -- cannot wait to give it a try!

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Haha, they really unload on you. Nice stuff!

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one step forward very nice indeed keep the work up !

however I noticed 2 things in that video that may needs some tweaking (in my opinion) 

-some Ais were moving slowly towards cover and were slowly to react (maybe engine limitation or they were thinking on something else )

-Ai was wasting a lot of artillery ammo on single target  

I never saw a huge improvements since armed assault in GL3 so im glade that TCL will see the light of the day it brings me a lot of memories 😉 

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-some Ais were moving slowly towards cover and were slowly to react (maybe engine limitation or they were thinking on something else )

Yes true... A.I. really sometimes have their confusing moments... :icon1:

Also sometimes they aim in the opposite direction of where their enemy(s) are and stuff like that.

Another good example: If i give A.I. a position to walk to ( Cover ) by using the doMove command they very often run much further than where they was ordered to just to stop rapidly and slowly walk back ( backward / sideward ) till they reach their given position.

And yes you are right!

Many of those strange things A.I. sometimes is doing defenetly is engine related.

Guess i can tell after spending many countless hours with studying and testing ARMA 3 vanilla A.I. behaviours in almost every way and situation.

 

Quote

-Ai was wasting a lot of artillery ammo on single target  

For this video i changed all needed settings up to 100% to make sure everything will be used by A.I. right at first try + i changed radio time from 50 seconds to 10 seconds.

Normally this all would be much more randomized and delayed.

Also guess i would have been already killed after the first 3 - 4 impacts without setting myself to immortal which than would make mortars to stop firing.

 

Quote

it brings me a lot of memories

Well glad to hear that!

That's my main target! :icon5:

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There should be a way to slow down AI calling in the artillery, so its not an instant thing but takes a few minutes. Currently the speed at which the support does its job is a fraction of the time that a typical mortar crew spends on a fire mission.

How i think it should work (to clarify, i have 0 knowledge on scripting)- unit calls in support, a randomized timer starts (min time, max time, should be customizable) after that passes the calling in unit should be "asked" does it still need the arty (so it doesn't shoot empty spaces when the threat is already neutralized or it moved) if it does, mortars fire at the orginal coordinates. Alternatively, AI calls in arty only after prolonged sighting of an enemy. The same thing, just other way around. Dont know what is easier.

Now tell me, does it make sense, is it dooable? What i'm trying to achieve with this change- to have mortars serve more as a punishment for being stationary than an instant you're seen- you're shot at. I feel that it would be way more realistic. Of course, the times should be tweakable, not something set in stone.

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- unit calls in support, a randomized timer starts (min time, max time, should be customizable) after that passes the calling in unit should be "asked" does it still need the arty (so it doesn't shoot empty spaces when the threat is already neutralized or it moved) if it does, mortars fire at the orginal coordinates. Alternatively, AI calls in arty only after prolonged sighting of an enemy.

Well thats exactly how it works normally.

I just tweaked all the settings to make A.I. use all those features at first try and pretty fast to not end up with 3 - 5 GB video size file. :icon2:

Also A.I Radio Time ( time A.I. group(s) need to radio to other friendly A.I. group(s) ) already can be set / changed in the "TCL_Radio.sqf" settings.

This time is used for A.I. artillery request(s) too.

 

See my post above: Click me!

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2 hours ago, snkman said:

Well thats exactly how it works normally.

I just tweaked all the settings to make A.I. use all those features at first try and pretty fast to not end up with 3 - 5 GB video size file. :icon2:

Also A.I Radio Time ( time A.I. group(s) need to radio to other friendly A.I. group(s) ) already can be set / changed in the "TCL_Radio.sqf" settings.

This time is used for A.I. artillery request(s) too.

 

See my post above: Click me!

Another behaviour that seemed a little jarring was the way that all AI "woke" from their sleep state at exactly the same moment.

It gives a very unrealistic, robotic impression, rather like a droid army being directed by a common, higher, intelligence.

So is there any chance of introducing a random element into AI reaction times?

That is maybe dependent (to some extent) on distance from the spotter?

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You mean A.I. unit(s) of the A.I. group?

If yes nope this is just how the engine handles nearby threats.

Even if you attack 1 A.I. unit which is far away from the rest of their A.I. group all other A.I. unit(s) of the group will be set to combat mode automatically.

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iv made more tests today and I found some weird and missing stuff :3

-Players Group Ai cant shoot flares 

-unlimited amount  of flares makes my NVGs useless 

-Ai can spot enemies at night in a huge distance and identify them so quickly and without NVGs

-sometimes Ai do nothing... and sometimes I found them in weird places and at the same position ! like one inside another 

-sometimes Ai get in the vehicle crash it and then get out (especially in combat situations) ...or blow it up and kill its team mates

-when there is a lot of Ai's they will be completely blind ..run through them and never engaged me (maybe engine problem not sure though)

-reaction is very slow in CQB but extremely Slow in CQC 

-the accuracy is very bad I cant find the config to change it

 

I will do more tests later 😃

 

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3 hours ago, AirShark said:

reaction is very slow in CQB but extremely Slow in CQC 

I found the opposite. I thought their reaction time was more realistic as it takes at least 1 sec to adequately respond on an unexpected notice.

 

The real problem I saw was that as a fireteam (3 AI), they were not as smooth and cohesive as you’d want in the test environment I created. Drop it to 2, and they were solid.

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3 Man Fireteam CQB Movement (unlisted):

 

To get across my original point from my last post, I personally think they should be a little more methodical in terms of how they move and cover each other (obviously personal preference). To get a rough idea as to what I’m taking about more or less this:

 

Only reason I post this is because the movement and cover system of TCL are very similar to GL4 + Zeus combo. Movement speed and style won’t be the same (different games), but how they utilize their environment can be from what I see so far with TCL (practically the same when using a 2 man fireteam). This video below is a great example:

 

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@AirShark

Quote

-Players Group Ai cant shoot flares

A.I. in general is unable to shoot flares! They shoot them straight into the ground instead of in the air.

I don't think you would like to see that. :icon2:

 

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-sometimes Ai do nothing... and sometimes I found them in weird places and at the same position ! like one inside another  

-sometimes Ai get in the vehicle crash it and then get out (especially in combat situations) ...or blow it up and kill its team mates 

Welcome to ARMA 3! :icon5:

Well what exactly do you expect from A.I. to do after a crash? Stay in the vehicle and do nothing? What would you do after a car crash? Get out maybe?

ARMA 3 engine makes A.I. get out of a vehicle if damaged or unable to drive automatically.

Also A.I. sometimes shoot their own team mates if they walk just right in front of them during combat.

Stuck A.I.... Well i can sing a song of it... A.I. stuck in buildings, A.I. stuck in bushes, A.I. stuck in mountains, A.I. stuck in the middle of a wide open field for no reason...

If 1 A.I. unit moves to a position where it get's stuck and after that another A.I. unit moves to exactly the same position than they bouth stuck together! :icon2:

Yes i know what you mean... I've seen it too many times...

 

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-the accuracy is very bad I cant find the config to change it

Which accuracy do you mean exactly? Shooting accuracy of A.I.?

 

@ZackTactical34

Thanks for your videos!

Looks like you are really into A.I. stuff! :thumbs-up:

Are there any A.I. enemy(s) in the "ArmA 3 (TCL) - 3 Man Fireteam CQB Movement" your A.I. unit(s) are aware of or are you just changing behaviour and combat mode and make them move to a position?

 

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Arma 3 (TCL) - Better Than SWAT4?

Really??? Oh come on Zack!  :icon2:

How can you compare ARMA with SWAT 4?

ARMA A.I. has so much more to do and to be capable of than SWAT 4 A.I. and please don't get me wrong! I love SWAT 4 and still playing it from time to time...

But SWAT 4 A.I. was coded especially for the mission scenarios which compared to ARMA are just tiny + SWAT 4 A.I. don't have to move and maneuver in an open world, drive vehicles, fly helicopters and stuff like that.

Same goes to Ghost Recon 1 A.I. they are really damn hard and almost every time they will kill you on sight.

But back than game engines were by far not as complex as they are today and sometimes to me it feels like the more advanced all the A.I. stuff gets the more things they have to do the more problems they get.

I'm still in love with OFP A.I. compared to A.I. of modern games they were pretty simple and basic coded but somehow felt much more alive than most of todays A.I. in most games.

B.t.w. even good old SWAT 4 A.I. sometimes has their confused moments. :icon1:

 

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1 hour ago, snkman said:

Are there any A.I. enemy(s) in the "ArmA 3 (TCL) - 3 Man Fireteam CQB Movement" your A.I. unit(s) are aware of or are you just changing behaviour and combat mode and make them move to a position?

IIRC, I used Stealth with Limited movement. Makes the AI more aware with their movement as well as not rushing the overall CQB process (got this idea originally from Chris B). Great for missions or pure sampling.

 

If there are any specific areas you would like additional testing, let me know (only thing I ever really do in Arma for the past year or so).

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