a.i. Tactical Combat Link - TypeX

[oldy41 61]

@snkman:

 

While you are at it, could you explain the other TCL_Tweak settings a bit more?

In particular, I was fiddling with indexes 5 (i.e. T.C.L. A.I. Communication: ( Knowledge )) and 6 (i.e. T.C.L. A.I. Communication: ( Distance )) trying to reduce the godlike APC gunner awareness problems. I tried setting index 5 to 4 to disable information sharing, but this did not really seem to work?

 

 

 

[snkman 351]

@tanin69

Quote

We've played our first mission with TCL in my community a few days ago (30 players, 140+ AIs). It was great and appriciated ! No performance impact with more than 140 AIs !

Thanks!

Glad to hear everything worked well for you!

 

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I have some very basic question, sorry for this.

No need to say sorry!

I know there are some things may not be easy to understand.

 

Okay there we go!

 

1. Debug System:

 

T.C.L. Map Marker Debug: ( System )

This is a pretty basic marker debug showing the target / enemy spot marker and the A.I. group(s) movement marker(s) only.

 

T.C.L. Map Marker Debug: ( Objects )

This enables A.I. unit(s) / A.I. group(s) map markers debug depending on what was set right below by T.C.L. Map Marker Debug Type: ( Units / Groups )

 

T.C.L. Cursor Debug: ( System )

If enabled this will show a hint with informations about the object ( unit ) you are aiming at e.g. unit(s) name, unit(s) behaviour, unit(s) combat mode, unit(s) distance to you, unit(s) knowledge about you and so on...

 

T.C.L. Mission Debug: ( System )

This debug will show a hint where you can see how many A.I. group(s) and A.I. unit(s) are aware of you.

 

T.C.L. Development Debug: ( System )

This debug includes in - game A.I. Take Cover marker(s) and Bullet Whiz By indicators. ( Visual Markers )

 

2. Visual Markers:

 

Purple = A.I. group(s) current move position.

Blue = A.I. unit(s) cover object.

Green = A.I. unit(s) at / reached cover position / object.

Red = If A.I. unit(s) cover position is within 100 meters to their current movement position than they have a 50% chance to stay in cover for much longer time in this case the marker will turn red!

 

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What is precisly indicated with lines between an AI and a hostile unit ? knowsAbout value ? Direct sight ? There are white and red lines.

Right!

Red = A.I. unit(s) have line of sight to their enemy.

White = A.I. unit(s) don't have line of sight to their enemy.

 

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Same question on color codes on the map view about group/unit markers : red, yellow, green, blue : I'm confused with it !

Guess i would be confused as well if i would not have made it myself...

Well...

Red = A.I. group leader.

Yellow = None A.I. group leader.

Green = A.I. group(s) which are using any specific A.I. group types e.g. A.I. Hold Group(s), A.I. Defend Group(s), A.I. Location Group(s) and so on...

 

If A.I. unit(s) are in a vehicle:

White = Driver

Blue = Gunner

 

Hope this could help you at least a bit to figure out how and what it all does.

 

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Even more very basic question : is there a really non ambiguous (ideally simple) way to exclude a group from TCL control ?

You mean to exclude the A.I. group from being initialized by T.C.L. completely?

If yes:

1.: Create a trigger.

2.: In the text field of the created trigger write "TCL_Disabled" without <" ">.

3.: Synchronize given A.I. group(s) with the trigger to exclude them from T.C.L. initialize.

[tanin69 17]

Wonderfull, @sknman ! You definitly are aaaaa King !

 

Time to write a F.A.Q (omw) !

[snkman 351]

@oldy41

Well the A.I. Communication feature should not be the main reason to this behaviour i guess...

 

You changed it to this?

  // ==============================================================
  // T.C.L. A.I. Communication: ( Knowledge )
  // ==============================================================
  // Choose knowledge friendly A.I. group(s) need to have from each other to communicate with each other.
  // Note: If this value was set to 4 A.I. group(s) are not able to communicate with each other.
  // Description: A.I. group(s) communication includes enemy(s) reveal and enemy(s) synchronization between friendly A.I. group(s).
  // 0 - 4, default is > 0
     TCL_Tweak set [5, 4];

Removed the "//" and set it to 4?

 

Are you sure it happends with T.C.L. only?

Right now i'm not really sure what else could trigger this behaviour but i will test it and see what i can do to solve it.

 

 

[tanin69 17]

9 hours ago, snkman said:

3.: Synchronize given A.I. group(s) with the trigger to exclude them from T.C.L. initialize.

 One can synchro only a unit, not a group (in Eden at least). So... Do you mean synchronizing a unit (leader, any unit of a group ?) will work ? The goal is to be sure that these groups are purely vanilla controled.

[oldy41 61]

29 minutes ago, snkman said:

@oldy41

Well the A.I. Communication feature should not be the main reason to this behaviour i guess...

 

You changed it to this?

  // ==============================================================
  // T.C.L. A.I. Communication: ( Knowledge )
  // ==============================================================
  // Choose knowledge friendly A.I. group(s) need to have from each other to communicate with each other.
  // Note: If this value was set to 4 A.I. group(s) are not able to communicate with each other.
  // Description: A.I. group(s) communication includes enemy(s) reveal and enemy(s) synchronization between friendly A.I. group(s).
  // 0 - 4, default is > 0
     TCL_Tweak set [5, 4];

Removed the "//" and set it to 4?

 

Are you sure it happends with T.C.L. only?

Right now i'm not really sure what else could trigger this behaviour but i will test it and see what i can do to solve it.

 

 

I'm pretty sure that's what I did.

 

I set up a simple test mission in Virtual Reality with an APC (with zero fuel), some big view blocks, the player behind the view blocks, and another Opfor AI (in its own group) who could see the player.

This allows to check the differences between vanilla and TCL with different settings:

 

With TCL active, after a few seconds the APC turret always rotates towards the player. Probably since the other AI shares its knowledge about the player with the APC gunner.

Setting

   TCL_Tweak set [5,4];

did not seem to have any effect?

[tanin69 17]

oldy41, sorry if I missed the point, but : 'Enemy knowledge is instantly shared among the group units' from https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/knowsAbout

 

Do you speak about units in the same group or communication between groups ?

[snkman 351]

@tanin69

Quote

One can synchro only a unit, not a group (in Eden at least). So... Do you mean synchronizing a unit (leader, any unit of a group ?) will work ? The goal is beeing to be sure that these groups are purely vanilla controled.

Yes synchronize it to any unit of the A.I. group.

Disabled A.I. group(s) will have no map markers.

 

@oldy41

Quote

 

I set up a simple test mission in Virtual Reality with an APC (with zero fuel), some big view blocks, the player behind the view blocks, and another Opfor AI (in its own group) who could see the player.

This allows to check the differences between vanilla and TCL with different settings:

 

This would have been my next question how you set it up.

Well okay thanks i will test and see what cause it. Guess some doWatch command or something like this...

 

[Dragon_GER 19]

Just to let you know. My unit is using this A.I. Mod pretty successfully in the Liberation CTI. It's an completly differend feeling with an ai reacting smart to player movements. Sometimes it's amazing to see how players get pinned down in buildings while other units advance and rush them :D

[snkman 351]

@Dragon_GER

Thanks for your feedback!

 

@oldy41

Okay i was able to rebuild and test the scenario.

Agree the A.P.C. gunner has knowledge about you and already aiming at your position even if without line of sight and behind a view blocker.

The reason why it is like this is because the A.P.C. already was requested as reinforcement by the single A.I. unit which has spotted you and already shared their enemy knowledge with the A.P.C. crew.

To me personal it looks pretty normal that way but i can try to add a tweak to disable / lower this part of infosharing.

The idea behind this is to make requesting A.I. share informations with requested A.I. as soon as they arrive at the position where they was requested to.

Instead of driving / walking blind into the battlefield requested reinforcement(s) will receive informations about the enemy(s) from the A.I. group(s) already fighting their enemy(s) as soon as close ( within 200 - 300 meters ) to the battlefield.

 

Just for testing:

Disable the A.I. Communication feature as already done previously.

  // ==============================================================
  // T.C.L. A.I. Communication: ( Knowledge )
  // ==============================================================
  // Choose knowledge friendly A.I. group(s) need to have from each other to communicate with each other.
  // Note: If this value was set to 4 A.I. group(s) are not able to communicate with each other.
  // Description: A.I. group(s) communication includes enemy(s) reveal and enemy(s) synchronization between friendly A.I. group(s).
  // 0 - 4, default is > 0
     TCL_Tweak set [5, 4];

Do the exact same V.R. setup but this time you v.s. A.I. group of 4 A.I. unit(s) instead of 1 A.I. unit just to prevent the A.I. group to request reinforcement(s).

There is a rating system which makes 1 player unit v.s. A.I. group(s) with up to 3 A.I. unit(s) = request reinforcement(s) 1 player unit v.s. A.I. group(s) with more than 3 A.I. unit(s) = no reinforcement request because the A.I. group will be rated as not overpowered by the single player unit.

This way you will see that the A.P.C. will have 0 knowledge about you!

[oldy41 61]

1 hour ago, snkman said:

Do the exact same V.R. setup but this time you v.s. A.I. group of 4 A.I. unit(s) instead of 1 A.I. unit just to prevent the A.I. group to request reinforcement(s).

There is a rating system which makes 1 player unit v.s. A.I. group(s) with up to 3 A.I. unit(s) = request reinforcement(s) 1 player unit v.s. A.I. group(s) with more than 3 A.I. unit(s) = no reinforcement request because the A.I. group will be rated as not overpowered by the single player unit.

This way you will see that the A.P.C. will have 0 knowledge about you!

 

@Snkman, again many thanks for the mod and for taking your time to improve it and for your excellent support!

 

I set up the test again like you suggested:

- A group of 6 OpFor AI infantry with LOS to the player.

- One APC behind a view block with no LOS to either the Opfor infantry nor the player.

- Setting

    TCL_Tweak set [5, 4]; TCL_Tweak set [6, 50];

 in both TCL_Tweak.sqf and the mission init, just to be sure.

- (The observer group is more distant than 50m to both player and APC.)

- Filepatching is enabled.

 

So I should have disabled AI communication via both Knowledge and Distance parameters, and also excluded the reinforcement mechanism due to the 6:1 odds?

Again it just takes a view seconds after the observers have spotted me before the APC rotates its turret pointing at the player behind the view block.

 

It is probably difficult to find a good balance having to cope with ArmA's AI fundament and its side effects.

And when playing versus infantry only that effect is not that immersion breaking. It even provides for very challenging CQB. But against vehicles it often just feels odd.

 

 

[snkman 351]

Your very welcome oldy41!

 

Quote

 

It is probably difficult to find a good balance having to cope with ArmA's AI fundament and its side effects.

And when playing versus infantry only that effect is not that immersion breaking. It even provides for very challenging CQB. But against vehicles it often just feels odd.

 

Yes it really is... There are so many different types of scenarios possible in ARMA...

Thought i would have already covered them all but as you can see...

 

Indeed your find really is linked to a command i was using wrong!

 

I used:

_unit doWatch _enemy;

Which makes A.I. unit(s) watch their enemy(s) and keep track of them even if without LOS.

 

I changed it to:

_unit doWatch (getPos _enemy);

Which makes A.I. unit(s) watch their enemy(s) once only and if no LOS they will not be able to keep track / watching their enemy(s)!

 

Good find i have to say!

 

[oldy41 61]

@Snkman:

Oh, that sounds so promising! 👍

I am eagerly looking forward to testing the new version! ☺️

[General Kong 148]

This looks very interesting, I hope you will consider a Steam Workshop release soon, although I will understand if you wish to wait

[snkman 351]

@General Kong

Right now there are no such plans but it already has been requested so often... Guess i have to look into it.

 

@All

Okay i've seen many people like this mod to be more realistic.

I've already tested this back in the day's but i like/liked it the way of how it is now getting hunt down by enemy A.I. even if sometimes they really should not know where you are but still able to find you.

The "TCL_Tweak" setting i've added will make T.C.L. way more realistic in terms of A.I. enemy knowledge.

Guess this could be handy for some of you!

  // ==============================================================
  // T.C.L. A.I. Knowledge: ( Decrease )
  // ==============================================================
  // Choose value of how much knowledge A.I. group(s) should loose about their enemy(s) after loosing line of sight.
  // Note: If this value was set to 4 A.I. group(s) without line of sight to their enemy(s) will almost instantly loose their enemy(s) knowledge.
  // 0 - 4, default is 0.7
    // TCL_Tweak set [7, 0.7];

 

[oldy41 61]

@snkman:

That sounds good.

Do we need a new version for this setting to work?

 

And could you please explain the new parameter a bit? (Like how it is converted to seconds till AI oblivion or the like?)

 

Many thanks!

[snkman 351]

Yap will be available in the next version which this time will be released much much faster! ( Guess within the next few day's )

Still need some more testing...

 

Quote

And could you please explain the new parameter a bit?

You mean the new 1 i posted above?

 

Well as soon as A.I. loose LOS to their enemy(s) they still will be able to search for their enemy(s) for some time ( 30 - 70 sec. ) by guessing where their enemy(s) may went to and try to find them.

After this time has past the value set in this setting will be randomly and over time subtract ( lower ) the A.I. enemy knowledge.

 

Max. A.I. enemy knowledge is 4 so by set this value for example to 4 the chance to have A.I. loose their enemy knowledge within 15 - 30 sec. is pretty high!

 

By default ( Vanilla ARMA ) A.I. will keep up their enemy knowledge for about 3 - 5 minutes depending on several situations ...

With this setting and depending on what it was set to it can reduce this behaviour to 15 - 30 seconds.

 

So 1 step closer to none super human A.I.

[froggyluv 2136]

@snkman how do you feel about factoring in enemy skill level into time cost to lose Reveal? Meaning the more skilled the enemy, the more likely they're able to hold onto your probable whereabouts for longer

[snkman 351]

Sure shouldn't be too hard to implement something like this.

[tanin69 17]

@snkman

[tanin69 17]

(sorry snkman for the mention, it's sticky, I can't delete it 😬)

 

The very first step for user documentation. Essentially a copy/paste of your documentation.

 

https://github.com/Arma-TCL-TypeX/TCL-TypeX/wiki

 

 

[snkman 351]

Thanks tanin69!

Much appreciated!

[ZackTactical34 86]

Got a nice video comparison of TCL and Smart AI Mix (which includes GL4 as well as Zeus and some other mods). This is definitely the best AI I’ve seen for Arma 3 so far:

 

Only thing is this video is not running the most recent patch. Still, pretty dang good in my opinion.

[wansec_6 200]

G'day @ZackTactical34

 

What is the Smart AI mix you mentioned above?

[Defunkt 431]

47 minutes ago, wansec_6 said:

What is the Smart AI mix you mentioned above?

 

God, no, please don't ask that. Basically there are a couple of weirdos eccentrics who keep popping up in ArmA 3 discussions on AI and banging on about their secret-sauce AI 'mix'. You'll eventually find out that these (collections of existing mods by other people) are actually for ArmA 2 and thus not really at all relevant to the current discussion.