Arma 4 a look to the future

[beno_83au 1369]

Maybe CSLA CDLC?

[mankyle 410]

CSLA will be launched soon. This is told in the article too...

I think the surprise they hint could be something OFP-related.

Me I'm betting on updated OFP islands...  ala Malden 2035

[EO 11274]

For me the most significant part of the blog post is the 25 positions required for an "unannounced" project, ranging from Art and Animation, Scripting, Design, QA etc. 

While it may have nothing to do with Arma 4, it definitely looks like their laying the foundation for something substantial. 

[krzychuzokecia 717]

Well, it's not really a secret that BI is indeed working on a new game. In one of the monthly recaps last year (or was it even late 2019?) they said that in 2020 they will try to make a "prototype" of new Enfusion game in 2020 - that's also the time when they posted those "unannounced project" job offers, though in smaller number. Heck, if you go through BI blog posts in last year, you'll find all those "Enfusion puzzles" with scenes from Enfusion engine - look very, very similiar to supposed "Reforger" leaks.

 

So I think it's safe to assume BI is working either on Arma 4 or DayZ 2, and not "Fish Fillets 357" - the Enfusion screens quite obviously present enviroment/assets suitable mostly for a first person shooter game. But even in 2020 it was just the beginning of the work, and since in November things happened the whole project is probably delayed to original plans. So yeah, I wouldn't cross my fingers on anything related to "new Arma" to come out this year. Even more - last year I was hoping for 2022 release, but with things that happened it's probably going to be 2023 (unless company will indeed go the "Reforger" route and release a gutted version of their original concept).

[stburr91 1002]

58 minutes ago, krzychuzokecia said:

Well, it's not really a secret that BI is indeed working on a new game. In one of the monthly recaps last year (or was it even late 2019?) they said that in 2020 they will try to make a "prototype" of new Enfusion game in 2020 - that's also the time when they posted those "unannounced project" job offers, though in smaller number. Heck, if you go through BI blog posts in last year, you'll find all those "Enfusion puzzles" with scenes from Enfusion engine - look very, very similiar to supposed "Reforger" leaks.

 

So I think it's safe to assume BI is working either on Arma 4 or DayZ 2, and not "Fish Fillets 357" - the Enfusion screens quite obviously present enviroment/assets suitable mostly for a first person shooter game. But even in 2020 it was just the beginning of the work, and since in November things happened the whole project is probably delayed to original plans. So yeah, I wouldn't cross my fingers on anything related to "new Arma" to come out this year. Even more - last year I was hoping for 2022 release, but with things that happened it's probably going to be 2023 (unless company will indeed go the "Reforger" route and release a gutted version of their original concept).

 

I, as well as others are thinking that Arma Reforger will be a cold war era game set in Europe using the Enfusion engine. I believe Reforger will be used to finish the development of the Enfusion engine, and prepare for Arma 4. I was thinking that an announcement about Reforger may come next month, with a release date of sometime in 2022.   

[turner89 17]

My guess is Reforger is exactly like you say. Arma 3.5.Probably Multiplayer only in a sense that it will not include a singleplayer campaign, but has the ability for SP/Coop missions/mods. Would be a good hold over until Arma 4 with a completed Enfusion engine, people could then easily port their mods over. 

[ZackTactical34 86]

7 minutes ago, turner89 said:

My guess is Reforger is exactly like you say. Arma 3.5.Probably Multiplayer only in a sense that it will not include a singleplayer campaign, but has the ability for SP/Coop missions/mods. Would be a good hold over until Arma 4 with a completed Enfusion engine, people could then easily port their mods over. 

I would be 100% down to buy into Reforger if it meant mod support. OOP fam 🤙

[MarineRecon191 10]

I hope ARMA doesn't go back to the cold war... It's kind of boring for me in my opinion, but it is what it is.

[Sgt_Bauer_FR 0]

You will need to plug a keyboard to your console. You can but why ...

[fin_soldier 82]

If you guys are interested to know about the next Arma - Arma Reforger, then here are my speculative conclusions:

 

 

[krzychuzokecia 717]

On 6/3/2021 at 11:05 PM, turner89 said:

Probably Multiplayer only in a sense that it will not include a singleplayer campaign, but has the ability for SP/Coop missions/mods.

The "leaks" were pointing towards limited modability, and no SP/co-op due to the apparent issues with AI in Enfusion (as in the AI still haven't evolved past zombies and wolves). Also no tracked vehicles and aircraft - I guess in practical terms Reforger (according to leaks) would be akin to "Cold War Insurgency" (the CS-based MP shooter), instead of "BF/Project Reality".

 

If it would be so, then well... I'll keep playing good old OFP, and Armas with CWR/Project '85.

[krzychuzokecia 717]

Talk about jump to conclusions. You quote original leaks which are pretty clear that Arma: Reforger is going to be some MP-only game that's nowhere near in it's gameplay and complexity to Operation Flashpoint, much less the level of simulation present in Arma 3, and yet you devote 8 minutes of your 10 minute vid to unfounded claims that it's going to be "Operation Flashpoint remake". The claim, which you (quite rightly) destroy in the last two minutes of your vid.

 

You either recorded this without any script/plan, or it's the biggest clickbait I've ever seen. Which should be no surprise, I don't think I ever seen "Arma Youtuber" who made any sense, so I guess you'll fit right in.

[Gunter Severloh 4051]

On 6/3/2021 at 5:52 PM, MarineRecon191 said:

I hope ARMA doesn't go back to the cold war... It's kind of boring for me in my opinion, but it is what it is.

I can agree, only reason i like OFP, and the rest of the series aside the great game itself and what you can do, modding ect,.

is the nostalgia of the game and the settings of the Cold war, the cold war itself does really nothing for me tbh.

I'm mainly a WW2 fan, but when you talk about the cold war then i think... OFP, this would also extend into the Cold war rearmed mods too.

 

Imo Arma 4 should just be in a modern setting, and setup as a sandbox like Arma3 is now, and let the community decide what mods

and genre's of war the game should have, then force us to have a future setting or a setting the whole game is around, modern is general,

modern we all can associate with, the modern can go back as far as the cold war, and Vietnam too to a degree.

 

    Modern covers a huge time period, from 80's up to todays weapons, if you set the game in a setting where there is only a "type"

of weapon based on that time say like A3 in 2035 then you limit the scope of the game to that, if you set a broad range for a time period

then not only can you have more weapons, equip vehicle, and so forth which would grant you more content to play with, but i think

you could please a general crowd that isn't a fan of a particular genre, like Vietnam, WW2 or other war periods, leave those to the mods and DLC's.

       This is a sandbox game, lets not define the game based on the settings of a war period.

[krzychuzokecia 717]

Agreed. I mean, I myself like the 1980s Cold War setting, but for all the wrong reasons. Afterall - it doesn't make too much sense, at that time any direct confrontation between NATO and Warsaw Pact would end in nuclear escalation, which doesn't really make for a "fun" gameplay setting. Heck, BI original plan for OFP was to have the remnants of NATO and Warsaw Pact fight out in a nuclear wasteland, which is dark, even if realistic, vision. But they switched to an old trope of "rogue Soviet general".

 

And yet the 1980s setting is still eye-pleasing in it's aesthethics (it is modern giving techno-thriller amusement, and still low-tech enough that it keeps the element of humanity required for good story), and let's be honest - the technology shown in Arma 3 is really at 1980s level already. So I see why devs could think it's a good setting.

 

But indeed most of the "let's have OFP remake" cries are driven by a rose-colored glasses nostalgia. I don't see many people going back from Arma to OFP, and for a reason - apart from the setting, it really is a very simple, almost arcade game, and would simply be boring for someone used to big battles which are being fought on many Arma 3 servers, whether mil-sim, or PvP. Some of those being played with 1980s mods too, and it seems to me that there isn't really that much of actual interest in the era - CWR, GlobMob, various "Cold War" additions to RHS/CUP are already existing on the fringe of Arma mainstream. So just as you said - forcing everyone else into this era wouldn't be wise choice.

 

However what frightens me the most, in all the rumours going around, is not the supposed 1980s setting, but the technological limitations of Enfusion engine, which don't make for a good Arma game. Or Arma game at all. If rumours are true, and the next game in series is going to be solely PvP with limited vehicle selection, this may be simply the end of the series - unless the rose-colored nostalgia will overpower the lack of true OFP/Arma gameplay. Especially since BI is now in (quote) "strategic" involvement with company that's all about revenue. In other words: the failure of "Arma: Reforger" may bring the end to the whole series, as the "strategic investor" won't be willing to sink more money in the franchise. That's why I'd prefer to wait a year or two for a true Arma to come.

[stburr91 1002]

1 hour ago, krzychuzokecia said:

Agreed. I mean, I myself like the 1980s Cold War setting, but for all the wrong reasons. Afterall - it doesn't make too much sense, at that time any direct confrontation between NATO and Warsaw Pact would end in nuclear escalation, which doesn't really make for a "fun" gameplay setting. Heck, BI original plan for OFP was to have the remnants of NATO and Warsaw Pact fight out in a nuclear wasteland, which is dark, even if realistic, vision. But they switched to an old trope of "rogue Soviet general".

 

And yet the 1980s setting is still eye-pleasing in it's aesthethics (it is modern giving techno-thriller amusement, and still low-tech enough that it keeps the element of humanity required for good story), and let's be honest - the technology shown in Arma 3 is really at 1980s level already. So I see why devs could think it's a good setting.

 

But indeed most of the "let's have OFP remake" cries are driven by a rose-colored glasses nostalgia. I don't see many people going back from Arma to OFP, and for a reason - apart from the setting, it really is a very simple, almost arcade game, and would simply be boring for someone used to big battles which are being fought on many Arma 3 servers, whether mil-sim, or PvP. Some of those being played with 1980s mods too, and it seems to me that there isn't really that much of actual interest in the era - CWR, GlobMob, various "Cold War" additions to RHS/CUP are already existing on the fringe of Arma mainstream. So just as you said - forcing everyone else into this era wouldn't be wise choice.

 

However what frightens me the most, in all the rumours going around, is not the supposed 1980s setting, but the technological limitations of Enfusion engine, which don't make for a good Arma game. Or Arma game at all. If rumours are true, and the next game in series is going to be solely PvP with limited vehicle selection, this may be simply the end of the series - unless the rose-colored nostalgia will overpower the lack of true OFP/Arma gameplay. Especially since BI is now in (quote) "strategic" involvement with company that's all about revenue. In other words: the failure of "Arma: Reforger" may bring the end to the whole series, as the "strategic investor" won't be willing to sink more money in the franchise. That's why I'd prefer to wait a year or two for a true Arma to come.

 

I'm also someone who isn't interested in a cold war European theater game, it would seem like a step backwards for the series. 

 

I think BI themselves are the ones wearing the rose-colored glasses, and are clearly as obsessed with the cold war era set in Europe, as they are with bullpup rifles (seriously what the heck is with all the bullpup rifles in Arma 3). One would think after Dayz, Contact, GM, and Iron Curtain, BI wouldn't make a new Arma game set in the cold war, and especially not in Europe, because its now been done to death. 

 

As far a rumor's of limitation in the Enfusion engine, I think that's the point of Arma Reforger, to have a game that will be a multi-year open beta to finish the development of the Enfusion engine. So while I expect that Arma Reforger will release with limited content, and functionality, it will be developed over 2-4 years to prepare for Arma 4.

 

With that said, I believe Arma 4 is still 4-6 years away.     

 

[drebin052 323]

22 minutes ago, stburr91 said:

I think BI themselves are the ones wearing the rose-colored glasses, and are clearly as obsessed with the cold war era set in Europe, as they are with bullpup rifles (seriously what the heck is with all the bullpup rifles in Arma 3). One would think after Dayz, Contact, GM, and Iron Curtain, BI wouldn't make a new Arma game set in the cold war, and especially not in Europe, because its now been done to death.

 

Are you sure it's not the community that's the one wearing rose tinted glasses here and that BI is simply following trends?

 

I'm personally not a fan of Cold War settings either but considering the glowing reception S.O.G. PF got, it wouldn't surprise me to see BI making yet another generic CW-era game involving Ronnie Raygun the Yanks fighting "evil" Commies in Western Europe or some other fictional country...

[stburr91 1002]

15 minutes ago, drebin052 said:

 

Are you sure it's not the community that's the one wearing rose tinted glasses here and that BI is simply following trends?

 

I'm personally not a fan of Cold War settings either but considering the glowing reception S.O.G. PF got, it wouldn't surprise me to see BI making yet another generic CW-era game involving Ronnie Raygun the Yanks fighting "evil" Commies in Western Europe or some other fictional country...

 

There's no doubt there are plenty of old Arma players that still wax nostalgic about the good old days of OFP, but as I've said, after all the cold war era content that's been released recently, I wouldn't think BI would set the next Arma game in that era. 

 

Also, I wouldn't assume the (apparent) success of S.O.G. PF will carry over to Iron Curtain, the general interest in the Vietnam war is much greater than some fictional cold war story. Heck, I have some doubts about how well the CDLC Iron Curtain will sell, as I've said, the cold war era (especially in Europe) has already been done to death in Arma.  

[krzychuzokecia 717]

1 hour ago, stburr91 said:

I think BI themselves are the ones wearing the rose-colored glasses, and are clearly as obsessed with the cold war era set in Europe, as they are with bullpup rifles (seriously what the heck is with all the bullpup rifles in Arma 3).

That's really, really savage (in a good way) comment, but regarding the glasses, I think I agree with @drebin052 - there's not much people from OFP era left in BI, the company doesn't really care one or the other way.

 

But indeed there is (excuse me) shitload of people who are "yadda yadda Cold War", "Arma 3 sux OFP bestest hurr durr" - funnily enough, I don't see them active on OFP servers/fanpages. But this contingent of "nostalgia driven" consumers is huge, vocal, and it fits the general indsutry focus on remasters. So, why not try to earn some cash on those people? Heck, with all respect to CSLA team, I don't think making a paid DLC out of free mod is a good idea - matter of fact, it stands to the opposite of what BI tried to achieve with cDLCs. But the reception I saw here, and in other places, was amazingly positive, even from people who were not liking the general idea of 3rd party DLCs, or GlobMob rollout.

 

See, Arma is already a bit on the margin of BI as "corporate identity". DayZ has following as big, if not bigger, as Arma, and then there's that wild, wild west of Vigor and Ylands fanbase - looking at YT vids/Twitch streams of that games made me realize that there's some very, very different "gaming culture" going on, one that seems very... "fake" and "forced" to me (professionally edited YT clips that look a lot like US TV infomercials) - guess the "strategic" involvement of Tencent pays out. And even Arma "community" is not the same as before, with most of the "devs-gamers" interactions being confined to Twitter and Discord, leaving many of the "older" players isolated (whether those players are the "nostalgia driven" yes-men, or angry, cynical assholes like me).

 

The return to the Cold War setting seems to me like an attempt to get that economically viable "nostalgics" from their forgotten place in "old guard" to that "new reborn" community that's all about Twitch, Discord, Twitter, subs, likes and product placement. And if it goes well, especially if it goes well with a "simplified non-Arma" that Reforger looks to be, then why not milk it all to death, with new "Armas" going even further away from the core of the series? But, it's a gamble.

 

1 hour ago, stburr91 said:

As far a rumor's of limitation in the Enfusion engine, I think that's the point of Arma Reforger, to have a game that will be a multi-year open beta to finish the development of the Enfusion engine.

Yes, I get it, but (speaking of gamble) it can backfire. If Reforger will fail in being an interesting game, and the Cold War nostalgia won't drive the sales, then... who will BI "strategically partner" with to still pursue the aim of "true Arma sequel"? Will they try to self-finance it like Arma 1 before, how much will it further delay the project?

 

BI already tried going the "modern gaming" way with Arma - Argo was supposed to be the "hip and trendy" sibling to A3, with all the cosmetics, competetive and ranked servers etc. But the reception was lukewarm at best, and it all fell apart after less than a year. I was thinking that BI took that lesson to their heart, and pursued modern trends with other titles (Vigor) while leaving Arma to be... Arma. But then this whole "Reforger" thing came to light, and well... I really hope it's all just one big misunderstanding, but no - it does seem, like "fake Arma" is back on the tracks. Which from one point doesn't bother me much (I will simply not buy it), but then I remember that many great game franchises died because of one fluke game. That's all it takes now - one failure, and company execs and investors say "you're out".

[stburr91 1002]

37 minutes ago, krzychuzokecia said:

That's really, really savage (in a good way) comment, but regarding the glasses, I think I agree with @drebin052 - there's not much people from OFP era left in BI, the company doesn't really care one or the other way.

 

But indeed there is (excuse me) shitload of people who are "yadda yadda Cold War", "Arma 3 sux OFP bestest hurr durr" - funnily enough, I don't see them active on OFP servers/fanpages. But this contingent of "nostalgia driven" consumers is huge, vocal, and it fits the general indsutry focus on remasters. So, why not try to earn some cash on those people? Heck, with all respect to CSLA team, I don't think making a paid DLC out of free mod is a good idea - matter of fact, it stands to the opposite of what BI tried to achieve with cDLCs. But the reception I saw here, and in other places, was amazingly positive, even from people who were not liking the general idea of 3rd party DLCs, or GlobMob rollout.

 

See, Arma is already a bit on the margin of BI as "corporate identity". DayZ has following as big, if not bigger, as Arma, and then there's that wild, wild west of Vigor and Ylands fanbase - looking at YT vids/Twitch streams of that games made me realize that there's some very, very different "gaming culture" going on, one that seems very... "fake" and "forced" to me (professionally edited YT clips that look a lot like US TV infomercials) - guess the "strategic" involvement of Tencent pays out. And even Arma "community" is not the same as before, with most of the "devs-gamers" interactions being confined to Twitter and Discord, leaving many of the "older" players isolated (whether those players are the "nostalgia driven" yes-men, or angry, cynical assholes like me).

 

The return to the Cold War setting seems to me like an attempt to get that economically viable "nostalgics" from their forgotten place in "old guard" to that "new reborn" community that's all about Twitch, Discord, Twitter, subs, likes and product placement. And if it goes well, especially if it goes well with a "simplified non-Arma" that Reforger looks to be, then why not milk it all to death, with new "Armas" going even further away from the core of the series? But, it's a gamble.

 

Yes, I get it, but (speaking of gamble) it can backfire. If Reforger will fail in being an interesting game, and the Cold War nostalgia won't drive the sales, then... who will BI "strategically partner" with to still pursue the aim of "true Arma sequel"? Will they try to self-finance it like Arma 1 before, how much will it further delay the project?

 

BI already tried going the "modern gaming" way with Arma - Argo was supposed to be the "hip and trendy" sibling to A3, with all the cosmetics, competetive and ranked servers etc. But the reception was lukewarm at best, and it all fell apart after less than a year. I was thinking that BI took that lesson to their heart, and pursued modern trends with other titles (Vigor) while leaving Arma to be... Arma. But then this whole "Reforger" thing came to light, and well... I really hope it's all just one big misunderstanding, but no - it does seem, like "fake Arma" is back on the tracks. Which from one point doesn't bother me much (I will simply not buy it), but then I remember that many great game franchises died because of one fluke game. That's all it takes now - one failure, and company execs and investors say "you're out".

 

Well, not matter what, the Arma franchise is going to change, it has to, it is woefully outdated, and cannot survive into the future without evolving. How much of the old core Arma experience they can retain, we'll just have to wait, and see to find out.

 

One of the CEOs of BI said that they want to get the Enfusion engine into the hands of the community as soon as possible, so the we can become familiar with it, and learn the scripting/modding, which is imperative to keeping the community engaged with the  franchise.   

 

While I believe that BI sees Reforger as an opportunity to generate revenue, I also believe that generating revenue may not be the primary goal.  The cost of developing a new game engine, as well as the cost of not having new games because of a lack of a new game engine, is enormous for BI.  How much money Reforger generates is secondary to their most important goal, finishing the development of the Enfusion engine. 

 

 

[krzychuzokecia 717]

On 6/6/2021 at 7:09 PM, stburr91 said:

One of the CEOs of BI said that they want to get the Enfusion engine into the hands of the community as soon as possible, so the we can become familiar with it, and learn the scripting/modding

But this seems rather counter-productive since Enfusion is not finished yet, and as such any lessons taken from early version of engine may not be applicable in the final version. Or is it? To be quite honest, there's been so many confusing statements about Enfusion from BI themselves - the first time they mentioned it, they said it's simply Enforce (CC:GM and ToM) "enfused" (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) with capabilities of RV. DayZ Standalone was said to move to Enfusion, and in 1.0 it did got new renderer, but we later were told that it's not really Enfusion, but some kind of mix between Enfusion and RV. So question is: what is even the plan with Enfusion? Initially it was supposed to use parts of RV (like DayZ SA does), but now it's something completely different?

 

On 6/6/2021 at 7:09 PM, stburr91 said:

While I believe that BI sees Reforger as an opportunity to generate revenue, I also believe that generating revenue may not be the primary goal. (...) How much money Reforger generates is secondary to their most important goal, finishing the development of the Enfusion engine.

So how does it help? From what we learned from the leaks, the supposed Arma: Reforger is "DayZ, but no zombies, just PvP and Cold War skins" - no new features to add/test. IMO the reason for making "simple" game like that is just to have some new IP that will catch the attention of the market - as you said, the cost of engine development is high, and with no new games, the sales are only dwindling. Reforger is a chance to get that possibly life-saving injection of funds, to keep things going, without relying on external financing (which still happens anyway).

[AntipopAU 3]

Everything is pointing toward ARMA Reforger. It will be set in the Cold War, just like the original Operation Flashpoint. It will MP only with scenario editor and the ability to create missions.

- 20th Anniversary of Operation Flashpoint on the 22nd of June

- Will be a test bed for Enfusion. Allows BI to release this 'ARMA 3.5' game on the new engine and gives modders the opportunity to start working with it and porting across their addons.

- ARMA Reforger was leaked in January, and BI has just finalized the copyright claim for it.

- Will act as a pathway to ARMA 4

 

I have a feeling it will potentially be released on the 22nd of June in Early Access. The leaks in January looked like it already was playable and working - that's a solid 6 months of development time after it.

[Vigil Vindex 64]

1 - Cold War Era - I don't think we will be done with this era for a long time. They do not call the end of it the "end of history" for nothing.

 

2 - Reforger - I initially hated the idea and I am still disappointed that we are yet to see the groundwork for performant AI in a future Arma game taking shape in Enfusion. I thought DayZ would be the test bed to develop Enfusion towards being ready for Arma 4 and provide the opportunity for content creators to port their content to the new platform. Perhaps Reforger will provide a better place for that to happen. But I am worried that we are not seeing stuff like digging tunnels or trenches in DayZ, or new AI, deformable terrain, etc, the type of new stuff that we thought would not be done with Arma due to engine limitations that the new engine would open up.

[fin_soldier 82]

On 6/5/2021 at 8:27 PM, krzychuzokecia said:

Talk about jump to conclusions. You quote original leaks which are pretty clear that Arma: Reforger is going to be some MP-only game that's nowhere near in it's gameplay and complexity to Operation Flashpoint, much less the level of simulation present in Arma 3, and yet you devote 8 minutes of your 10 minute vid to unfounded claims that it's going to be "Operation Flashpoint remake". The claim, which you (quite rightly) destroy in the last two minutes of your vid.

  

You either recorded this without any script/plan, or it's the biggest clickbait I've ever seen. Which should be no surprise, I don't think I ever seen "Arma Youtuber" who made any sense, so I guess you'll fit right in.

 

Sure, it could be a MP-only game as the leaker claims, but it can still be a commemoration to Operation Flashpoint, and we don't have much information regarding the complexity of Arma Reforger.

When it comes to unfounded claims, I sure think there's a connection between an upcoming 20th anniversary and the assets/terrains displayed in the leaks, and the title itself.

Just a tiny example would be the village of Vernon, which is verifiable in OFP on Everon.

 

I don't mind you calling me out as a "clickbait youtuber", as everyone can make up their mind of what they believe. I just wanted to share my thoughts and speculation.

[pierremgi 4850]

No trace of Arma 4's life, anyway.

 

Arma 404 Not found

"Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment"

[fin_soldier 82]

Interesting points! I do find it strange that Bohemia has been releasing these cold war CDLC's recently, as the Arma Reforger leaks do point to a OFP setting. Despite this, I still believe there to be some kind of a tribute / remake of Operation Flashpoint on the 22nd of June (at the very least an announcement). I listed my speculative reasons of why I believe this in my video below.