Laws of War DLC Mines

[DnA 5143]

Mines (specifically detection) are another existing feature that we've had a chance to make a few improvements to with Laws of War DLC (as a platform update for all). Most of these changes have already been on Dev-Branch for a while and we've read your feedback so far. We'll divulge more of our goals and details over the next weeks in the form of OPREPs for example. Note that we've wanted to preserve backward-compatibility as much as possible, limiting some more drastic changes. A clear example is the 15 meter detection range. Sure, we could decrease it, but it would potentially unbalance any existing scenario with mines.

• Note: expanded Community Wiki documentation is in progress.
• Specific issues go to the Feedback Tracker as per usual.

 

What changes does this cover?

• Most characters are now less adept at automatic visual identification of mines.
  • You will need to manually T-reveal them in more cases (also depending on difficulty options).
    • Note that in order to disarm mines, you need to have revealed them.
    • Many other factors influence visual identification: night-time, being in a vehicle, hidden in vegetation, etc.
• The Mine Detector has the same 15 meter range as it always had, but is slightly less 'magical' now.
  • An Info Panel is used to show the approximate location around you ([ or ] by default).
  • It pings off nearby detected mines, but does not yet reveal their type (potentially offset cloud symbol).
  • Audio cues reveal the direction and distance of the nearest unrevealed mine (also without the panel open).
• Vehicles can have their own Mine Detector with custom range and Info Panel (see the Demining Drone).
• Most explosives should receive their own placement / deactivation SFX (WIP).
• Many explosion SFX were tweaked.
• The Radio Protocol message that is triggered when a mine is discovered has 'spam control', so it's not repeated too often in a large field.
• disableAI "MINEDETECTION" can disable an AI's mine detection abilities.

[five_seven5-7 56]

The mine detector should be lower to 1-2 meter top range, its only a metal detector / ultrasonic. The engineer should be more slow, tracking the ground for mines and not running toward it and then disarming it.

 

Lack of green and red flags for id a path corridor and visually mines should be underground not visible. Creation of false-positive mines (coins, junk and so on...) could be interesting wasting time detecting non EOD during a firefight. Its the engineer job to make them visible for others players after using the mine detector and ID it manually.

 

Ref: Kajaki film

 

[teabagginpeople 398]

Tiz the weekend so only got to mess about for a little before I head out.

 

 love the changes above. all around. Makes mine purchase of the dlc worthy indeed. 

 

The mine dispenser. God dayyyum.  is a thing of evil and beauty.  bravo to who ever decided on its introduction. It makes the need for a mine detector almost mandatory. This thing alone has potential to change the face of the Battlefield in a great way.

 

Look forward to more playing around with this.soz the feedback is more kudos than helpful.

[R0adki11 3949]

31 minutes ago, five_seven5-7 said:

The mine detector should be lower to 1-2 meter top range, its only a metal detector / ultrasonic. The engineer should be more slow, tracking the ground for mines and not running toward it and then disarming it.

 

Remember Arma3 is set in 2035 so technology may have advanced further..

[heavygunner 179]

1.Read the first post "A clear example is the 15 meter detection range. Sure, we could decrease it, but it would potentially unbalance any existing scenario with mines"

2.Understand what you just read.

3.Profit.

[five_seven5-7 56]

5 hours ago, R0adki11 said:

 

Remember Arma3 is set in 2035 so technology may have advanced further..

 

Yes and also there is a new technology use by men, the asexual reproduction.

 

4 hours ago, heavygunner said:

1.Read the first post "A clear example is the 15 meter detection range. Sure, we could decrease it, but it would potentially unbalance any existing scenario with mines"

 

Why everything its about balance in Arma because of KOTH and Life players??

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

6 hours ago, five_seven5-7 said:

The mine detector should be lower to 1-2 meter top range, its only a metal detector / ultrasonic. The engineer should be more slow, tracking the ground for mines and not running toward it and then disarming it.

 

Lack of green and red flags for id a path corridor and visually mines should be underground not visible. Creation of false-positive mines (coins, junk and so on...) could be interesting wasting time detecting non EOD during a firefight. Its the engineer job to make them visible for others players after using the mine detector and ID it manually.

 

Ref: Kajaki film

 

 

The 15m radius is fine enough as is for vanilla game play.  Unless you are literally expecting everyone to walk everywhere than 15m is enough of a distance.  Keep in mind that unless the engineer is going first or the squad is bunched up within a 15m radius (which presents its own risks) then minefields are still going to be extremely potent.

 

 

@DnA would it be possible to see the prop object "FlagMarker_01_F" included as a usable item by the player? Similar to the training mine in that a player can place/remove it but it is not an explosive device.

This would allow players who have a mine detector to visually indicate to other players the exact position of a mine.

 

[dragon01 902]

I really think that it should be required to somehow equip the mine detector for it to work. IRL, you can't detect mines and shoot at the same time, or at least not reliably. You should have to take the detector out instead of the gun. Failing that, at least make it a GPS/Terminal slot item (you temporarily lose navigation in exchange for demining ability). 

 

The range is more or less fine (remember, we're not talking about detecting buried mines), though it could probably be a bit less. Also, I'd suggest that the mine detector react to other things (spent steel magazines, junk, pieces of gear, etc.) to make it a bit more of a challenge to use.

[DnA 5143]

11 hours ago, Imperator[TFD] said:

 

@DnA would it be possible to see the prop object "FlagMarker_01_F" included as a usable item by the player? Similar to the training mine in that a player can place/remove it but it is not an explosive device.

This would allow players who have a mine detector to visually indicate to other players the exact position of a mine.

I actually really like this idea and we may explore it after the first release. Can't confirm it at this stage, but I think it's feasible (we'd need to be able to fully disable its 'mine' properties e.g.) 

[Electricleash 133]

11 hours ago, Imperator[TFD] said:

 

@DnA would it be possible to see the prop object "FlagMarker_01_F" included as a usable item by the player? Similar to the training mine in that a player can place/remove it but it is not an explosive device.

This would allow players who have a mine detector to visually indicate to other players the exact position of a mine.

 

 

I suggested something along these lines in the Custom Panels thread a few weeks back. It would be most pertinent when on higher difficulty modes, where all GUI elements are disabled. Non engineers could at least 'flag' mines that are in particularly precarious positions until EOD can deal with them.

 

Quote

I really think that it should be required to somehow equip the mine detector for it to work. IRL, you can't detect mines and shoot at the same time, or at least not reliably. You should have to take the detector out instead of the gun. Failing that, at least make it a GPS/Terminal slot item (you temporarily lose navigation in exchange for demining ability).

Or at least be able to toggle through the GPS/Mine Detector modes with ( CTRL+] Default binding) should you have both in your inventory, much as one does for aircraft panels.

[R3vo 2654]

1 hour ago, DnA said:

I actually really like this idea and we may explore it after the first release. Can't confirm it at this stage, but I think it's feasible (we'd need to be able to fully disable its 'mine' properties e.g.) 

 

Please. I've done that with my own mod and folks seemed to like that feature and the campaign actually shows quite clearly that something like that is missing.

 

 

Moreover, could we get a global Eden attribute to set the range of the mine detector for the specific scenario? That way we would have options and options are good, right?

 

Last but not least I am going to quote myself here for easier visibility:

 

On 10.8.2017 at 11:12 PM, R3vo said:

While I love the changes to the mine detection system, I don't like the way mines can be defused instantly. Would it be possible to defuse mines via a Hold Action? The time it takes to defuse a mine, visual appearance and sound could be defined in (for example) CfgMineDefusion where it could be edited by modders. We could even have different times for different types of mines.

That way, you think twice whether you want to defuse a minefield while enemies could come around every second.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

12 hours ago, five_seven5-7 said:

 

Yes and also there is a new technology use by men, the asexual reproduction.

 

 

Why everything its about balance in Arma because of KOTH and Life players??

 

It has nothing to do with balancing but rather with not breaking 2 years old missions for example. It's something the community has been complaining about for years. That BIS breaks old missions and mods by making drastic changes. The approach here is completely reasonable because I'd be pissed off if BIS would break one of my missions by making a change to a system which was established with the first release of A3.

However, I've also mentioned a solution (See above) That way I believe, everyone will be happy

[Ivanoff.N 61]

Perhaps animations can be tweaked a bit.

1) Mine diffusing to take a bit longer (would be nice if you could add an animation that looked like an eod man screwing out a detonator, tripwire can remain asis because it is just a wire cut)

2) When operating a drone, the character does same animation as when accessing inventory, although the model of the uav terminal is ingame and it would be much more immersive for the character to hold it with both hands in front of self.

 

 

 

 

[NoPOW 59]

Didn't encounter it during the campaign, but is it possible to place markers/flags near mines ingame? I'm assuming the civilian population does not have the equipment to let little red triangles automagically appear...

 

EDIT: Which has already been proposed a few posts earlier. :')

[1212PDMCDMPPM 200]

21 hours ago, R3vo said:

 

It has nothing to do with balancing but rather with not breaking 2 years old missions for example.

 

You probably missed the AI thread where BI announced all missions so far will be broken by the AI skill change (and I'm not talking about the "visual upgrade" impact on the night mission impact).  All in all, a better mine system that reduce by a few meters mine detection is not that an issue.

[Jones.S140 61]

Might be worth updating Minefield module with new mines/UXO,s and maybe adding explosives for a easier way to add stuff to defuse

[jcae2798 132]

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T123023

 

been trying to get visibility on this bug!!  Perfect time to fix it ;)

[jone_kone 158]

Considering there is a APERS dispenser, there should be a way to effectively clear parhs through minefields too? Something like a bangalore but 2035 version of it? Or deployable explosive charge designed for mine clearing? Seems a bit strange that militaries still clear minefields by hand in 2035. 

 

But data lock is on so... oh well.

[NoPOW 59]

18 minutes ago, jone_kone said:

Considering there is a APERS dispenser, there should be a way to effectively clear parhs through minefields too? Something like a bangalore but 2035 version of it? Or deployable explosive charge designed for mine clearing? Seems a bit strange that militaries still clear minefields by hand in 2035. 

 

But data lock is on so... oh well.

I like the idea, but mine clearing has to be systematic and thorough; you could go the manual way after you deployed your bangalore though...

[GBee2 68]

34 minutes ago, jone_kone said:

Considering there is a APERS dispenser, there should be a way to effectively clear parhs through minefields too? Something like a bangalore but 2035 version of it? Or deployable explosive charge designed for mine clearing? Seems a bit strange that militaries still clear minefields by hand in 2035. 

 

Just a thought, but if in the future it was so easy to clear a path through a minefield, then there would be no point in laying mines in the first place?

 

Of course the military in Arma don't clear paths by minefields by hand, they have the Bobcat for that. It's the civilian IDAP that are doing clearance by hand or drone.

[jcae2798 132]

Does anyone else hate the fact that the mine detection beeping stops once a mine is supposedly "Spotted"?  Is there anyway to change this, even if it's via scripting? 

 

***EDIT***

Ok disableAI seems to do the trick on normal MINEs, but not the IED type.  I'll open a ticket in hopes this can be fixed as IED should be able to be ignored as well until revealed by player.

[jone_kone 158]

4 hours ago, NoPOW said:

I like the idea, but mine clearing has to be systematic and thorough; you could go the manual way after you deployed your bangalore though...

 

3 hours ago, GBee2 said:

 

Just a thought, but if in the future it was so easy to clear a path through a minefield, then there would be no point in laying mines in the first place?

 

Of course the military in Arma don't clear paths by minefields by hand, they have the Bobcat for that. It's the civilian IDAP that are doing clearance by hand or drone.

 

Thing is.... that already in 2017 we have pretty advanced mine clearing systems for big militaries that are designed to support assaulting forces (hence speedy).

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine-clearing_line_charge

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_flail

 

The game play benefits of these systems are that you could have very large mine fields that an assaulting force needs to work and create corridors through to achieve tactical benefit. The defending force again could use a lot of mines and create elaborate defenses. With the current DLC... if you stumble upon a large mine field you have no option but basically go around.

 

Not saying that I´m demanding a line charge or mine flail... but it would have been nice to see a creative take on a counter for the apers disperser, UXO:s, etc. E.g. a line clearing charge -dispenser that shoots a clearing charges in a an 15 m arc forwards and then detonates the charges?

 

[GBee2 68]

3 minutes ago, jone_kone said:

With the current DLC... if you stumble upon a large mine field you have no option but basically go around.

 

Not saying that I´m demanding a line charge or mine flail... but it would have been nice to see a creative take on a counter for the apers disperser, UXO:s, etc.

 

 

Or use the CRV-6e Bobcat ...

[jone_kone 158]

8 minutes ago, GBee2 said:

 

Or use the CRV-6e Bobcat ...

 

Does is detonate standard APERS mines with the DLC update if it drivers over them? earlier it didnt (not able to test now).

 

Edit: But having some form of mine clearing device/functionality added to the bobcat would be awesome.

[GBee2 68]

8 minutes ago, jone_kone said:

 

Does is detonate standard APERS mines with the DLC update? earlier it didnt (not able to test now).

 

Running 1.64, I placed the mine module with mine type set to standard APERS, then drove the bobcat through at slow speed, all mines below and immediately adjacent to the vehicle were detonated.

What I didn't expect to happen is that after hitting a lot of mines the vehicle took some damage, which shouldn't be the case, but that's probably fixed with the DLC?

[pttn40 15]

I just wanted to add my two cents on the new mine system.

 

1. The mine detector range may be too large. I found myself able to run around minefields in the campaign (literally standing and sprinting from mine to mine) due to the long detection range. It would be nice if the range was short enough that it forced players to have to move slowly through minefields or if smaller mines where harder to detect with the detector (kind of like how stealth works with the new radar system).
2. The ability to mark mines with flags needs to be added. I play a lot with a mill sim group and we play with minimal HUD so we would never see those red triangles for marking the mines. So having the flags available for us to place next to mines can help us mark mines on higher difficulties that have that HUD element disabled.
3. Instantly disarming mines and UXOs seems a little cheaty to me. It would be nice if it at least took 3-5 seconds per mine, or, even better, different mines and UXOs had different disarm times.
4. It would be nice to see more demining equipment or CEVs that actually can remove AT and AP mines, specifically on the NATO, CSAT, and AFF sides. Who knows though maybe fully functional CEVs might be added in with the tank update ;)
5. There needs to be a penalty for using the mine detector. Right now due to its small size and the fact you don’t have to equip it means every infantry man could carry one of these and find minefields. Also, this can make IEDs useless since the detectors can be used to spot them from a distance, ruining any planed ambushes. Finally, since they can be used from vehicles it means vehicles can also spot and react to IED and mine threats easier as long as they are moving slow enough.

 

Over all I believe the new mine system to be one of the most interesting, but also the most under developed parts of this DLC. I think it would really help Arma as a whole if it was developed a little bit further.