AI Driving - Feedback topic

[Vojtechsonik 34]

Make Driving Great Again

[FirstPanic 39]

My impression is, that is completely ignored by BI.

Don't know why... but this is the best way to destroy this phantastic game.

 

@road runner Any idea what we can do to make BI more aware of this? Maybe you as a moderator have a voice they will listen to. Finally we all want the best for ArmA (and actually for BI too)...  but this ignorance- and bug-implementation-behaviour is making it very difficult.

 

FristPanic

[road runner 4344]

6 minutes ago, FirstPanic said:

My impression is, that is completely ignored by BI.

Don't know why... but this is the best way to destroy this phantastic game.

 

@road runner Any idea what we can do to make BI more aware of this? Maybe you as a moderator have a voice they will listen to. Finally we all want the best for ArmA (and actually for BI too)...  but this ignorance- and bug-implementation-behaviour is making it very difficult.

 

FristPanic

I wish mate, not long ago, I was singing the praises of the AI, they'd driver over bridges, stay on the roads, keep to a formation, but now, it's like having the blind leading the blind, and they're just fucking awful to be honest, whatever has gone on in the past few updates has changed the drivers to full on retard mode!!

[FirstPanic 39]

Do you have as a moderator any contacts to BI developer?

It's hard to believe that BI developer ignore such a desaster. I mean... whatever is implemented in cool technology (e.g. dynamic simulation, etc.)... with 1.66 it feels like 10 steps back and it's no fun working with ArmA as a scripter and/or map developer. 

 

However... I think the only thing the community can do is take a deeeeeeeep breath.... and wait until it is fixed. In the meantime we can play other games ;-)

 

FirstPanic 

[road runner 4344]

The only thing I can recommend is to keep submitting tickets.

I don't think they're blatantly ignoring the issue either, I'm on Dev Branch so getting hefty updates daily, but so far the drivers seem to have driven off the program!

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

On 11.1.2017 at 6:25 PM, HeroesandvillainsOS said:

Yep. I'm not on dev branch but this entire thing is frustrating. I know a ton of work went into this, but this whole thing was destined to fail and feels like yet another half-baked feature they've pretty much abandoned.

 

So they give the logic to strictly the vehicle classes rather than the drivers themselves which means most mods don't get the enhancements.

 

This is something that I don't get.

Maybe it's gone way over my head but why would the first thing to do limiting improved driving to certain vehicles?

Can't be that hard to write a few functions that take into account vehicle mass, type and size, and then give proper turning angles and speed to the driving AI?

Maybe the problem lies within how roads are handled in the game, they are basically objects at a position with a given direction. Using this data to make an AI drive on it might end up in a rough estimation,

this would explain why AI still swerves when passing a T section in a straight line.

 

Cheers

 

[Sniperwolf572 758]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

...

Maybe the problem lies within how roads are handled in the game, they are basically objects at a position with a given direction.

...

 

This isn't true in Arma 3. Roads are vectors in a shapefile. See here.

[mickeymen 324]

On 18.01.2017 at 10:52 AM, FirstPanic said:

My impression is, that is completely ignored by BI.

Don't know why... but this is the best way to destroy this phantastic game.

 

 

 

I'm also sorry that the developers are not improving the game, and destroy it yourself. 
A lot of questions that need to be fixed now and today, continue to be ignored!  Arma3 has many shameful bugs.
Instead of solving this bugs, the developers are doing all sorts of nonsenses, like a endless buged updates and DLC, ARMA mobile project, Incubator project and etc.  etc.
For example, today we were promised to make DLC Tanks, Yes! But while none of the BIS is not in a hurry to solve the problem why tanks suddenly with no reason accelerated and jumps. Many user have tried to use the feedback, but as always in most cases unsuccessfully. In the end we will get new Bouncing tanks, cool!

As seems to me, unfortunately, BIS don't understand to attract a new users, don't need to add to the game new garbage or create the child projects. 

First, they they should stop adding new garbage to the game and need to start to polish the current game in every small details.

[old_painless 182]

A bit harsh, but true. They are channelling resources away from the core game to moneymaking DLCs. Yes, I know they will say "but we fix stuff that the DLC needs" but that means - at best - a non-committing approach to fixing core game problems. Such as pathfinding, such as building awareness, such as cover finding, such as mid-range graphics, such as <insert ignored tickets here> ....

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

4 hours ago, Sniperwolf572 said:

 

This isn't true in Arma 3. Roads are vectors in a shapefile. See here.

This might be true regarding terrain making, regarding native engine script commands a road is an object with position and direction, no engine command to receive the vector shape or similar,

at least I doubt that AI has access to road vectors and the likes.

 

Cheers

[pierremgi 4889]

Hi, is it possible to make something for more fluidity when a vehicle is completing an intermediate waypoint ? I seems the vehicle stops at each waypoint, then continue. Why?

[Vasily.B 529]

Quote

However... I think the only thing the community can do is take a deeeeeeeep breath.... and wait until it is fixed. In the meantime we can play other games ;-)

This is what i'm actually doing.

As other sayed, i dont like to watch on wasted project, but i will not write about developer behavior anymore, as one of BIF member asked me to not insult them. I just lost patience with this game, cant finish single mission without some unit killed, mission failed JUST beacuse bugs. Its gonna be long time till this game be playable again. But this need deepere steps into developing program, and plans change, my tickets about AI's are ignored since 2 years, i see they never gonna be fixed.
Whatever, i just wanted dear Bohemia know, there are other games, and their developers are doing much better in work planing for year.

[road runner 4344]

Vasily,

With all due respect, for a considerable time now, you've been extremely vocal about Arma3 even to the point you uninstalled it, and then reinstalled ,you also keep stating that you're on stable branch, but post quite often in here on the dev branch, if you're not experiencing the issues on dev branch, you're not offering much to the conversation.

You've insulted BIS over and over,  many times, have you not considered that if they're not fixing stuff and it constantly irks you, perhaps it's time to stop playing the game, and give yourself a break from being repetitive?

I totally agree with you on many of these issues, and many will simply not be fixed to what we, the paying customer want, but at least four years after initial release, they're STILL trying to improve the overall game and have provided umpteen FREE updates, how many games and developers do you know that continue such support after initially releasing buggy games?

Almost every FPS and Simulation I've bought over the past 10+ years has been released with countless faults, most had a couple of patches, and then that was it, zero support after that, they simply moved on to their next evolution. There are also very very few FPS/MilSims out there that have such a strong community support and Input, and that's what makes the Arma platform so attractive to a LOT of people, that there's some very very very smart and talented coders and programmers, who create their own "fixes" whilst people point fingers and say "But this should have been done by BIS" yes, they're also correct to a degree. 

There are very few games where the AI actually think like Humans, and therein lies the problems, what we in today's world wish for in an AI isn't 100% possible, here in Arma, they can take cover, return fire, work in teams and have basic tactics, but they can't do a simple thing like climb a ladder?

The AI driving algorithm's in all the Arma franchise has never been brilliant, but the maps have been simple, now we have maps that have LOTS of objects placed on them, and are much more complex in nature, which is freaking the AI out, as they can't navigate for shit. Does it bother me? Hell yes, but I have two simple choices, put up with their ineptness and stupidity and do what I can within the parameters of the game....and the 2nd choice is to delete the game off my hard drive and find another game that I wont need to throw my mouse in disgust because soldier A has just driven off a steep embankment killing all inside..


I'm extremely grateful to the smart guys who seem to understand the AI algorithms much better than BIS do at times, and for their AI addons, it really does make a difference between playing something you know isn't working as it should in your mind,  and then finding an addon that the AI have raised their IQ by about 100!!.

No game out there is worth getting riled about, if you are unhappy and constantly getting so wound up, you vent, you need to find something that's not going to raise blood pressure and the mood of the house, which can effect the family life too if you have a family, trust me, I've been there, and nothing riles you more than a wife/girlfriend who says "it's only a game, why you getting so pissed off?" , the choice is yours, continue to play and being frustrated, angry and bitter .......or delete and find something more enjoyable that reduces those stress levels.

[Tankbuster 1746]

I too add a bit bored with VB's repeated posts about the same thing, but he IS a paying customer and I think he's right to expect the AI to be able to drive and if they can't he's entitled to say "This isn't good enough".

[Vasily.B 529]

Insulting developers and critics over their job is 2 diferent things @road runner

AI can climb ladder without problems ;)

Problem is i would life with much problem appeared in BEta alpha or release date, but most of problems appeared with Visual update and later, so they just damaged game that wasnt working well, but better than now.

[road runner 4344]

12 minutes ago, Tankbuster said:

I too add a bit bored with VB's repeated posts about the same thing, but he IS a paying customer and I think he's right to expect the AI to be able to drive and if they can't he's entitled to say "This isn't good enough".

I agree, but there's way's of saying things and doing things, and slagging of the Dev's isn't one of them, and you and I are customers, along with everyone else, do I want the Driving to be better, yes I do, is it ever going to get better? $64,000,000 question, so like I said, there's really only two choices, accept its never going to be what we would all like on an individual basis, and the second, is as I said, uninstall, and  reliev the stress

I've complained quite recently about the AI driving, I also just stopped using dev branch as it was having effects on other various scripts too. but going back to stable seemed to sort these out.

Dev Branch is all about testing stuff before release, and fixing the broken things as and when/if they can, it also breaks other things into the bargain, so stay on stable and read the feedback, and wait and see if it's fixed on the next stable release....or play something else till the broken stuff is fixed, why keep the stress levels up when there's solutions to it?

[road runner 4344]

9 minutes ago, Vasily.B said:

Insulting developers and critics over their job is 2 diferent things @road runner

AI can climb ladder without problems ;)

Problem is i would life with much problem appeared in BEta alpha or release date, but most of problems appeared with Visual update and later, so they just damaged game that wasnt working well, but better than now.

Vasily, you've been insulting quite often, hence why you've been banned before, there's way of going about putting your point across, without insulting the people you expect to fix the broken stuff.

And the AI can climb ladders no problems? They can't on dev branch, or stable branch either, from what I've been trying to make them do.

Without any AI addons, put 4 divers in the docks at Georgetown and give them a "move there" command, they will swim around the jetties and swim to the shallow water, and come out that route, they don't climb the ladders right in front of them. if you find an AI addon that makes them climb out please let me know which one as I'd like to use it.

Drop 4 AI onto the roof of the hospital in Kerval and give them a command to move to another location and most will walk off the roof, and not use ladders. Same with the Silo's at the Sugar Factory on Tanoa, if there's ladders, they chose to think they're airborne!

As I said, I agree with a lot of what you say, it's how you put your grievances across that isn't great.

 

[Vasily.B 529]

8 minutes ago, road runner said:

Vasily, you've been insulting quite often, hence why you've been banned before, there's way of going about putting your point across, without insulting the people you expect to fix the broken stuff.

And the AI can climb ladders no problems? They can't on dev branch, or stable branch either, from what I've been trying to make them do.

Without any AI addons, put 4 divers in the docks at Georgetown and give them a "move there" command, they will swim around the jetties and swim to the shallow water, and come out that route, they don't climb the ladders right in front of them. if you find an AI addon that makes them climb out please let me know which one as I'd like to use it.

Drop 4 AI onto the roof of the hospital in Kerval and give them a command to move to another location and most will walk off the roof, and not use ladders. Same with the Silo's at the Sugar Factory on Tanoa, if there's ladders, they chose to think they're airborne!

As I said, I agree with a lot of what you say, it's how you put your grievances across that isn't great.

 

Aaaa. with ladders you mean this....

Its more like pathfinding in buildings than ladders using.
I was meaning situation when there is some chimmey and you walk on it (CUP objects) ai will follow you without extra order. Same with position taking, they just like ladders from CUP very much ;)

[Tankbuster 1746]

58 minutes ago, road runner said:

I agree, but there's way's of saying things and doing things, and slagging of the Dev's isn't one of them, and you and I are customers, along with everyone else, do I want the Driving to be better, yes I do, is it ever going to get better? $64,000,000 question, so like I said, there's really only two choices, accept its never going to be what we would all like on an individual basis, and the second, is as I said, uninstall, and  reliev the stress

I've complained quite recently about the AI driving, I also just stopped using dev branch as it was having effects on other various scripts too. but going back to stable seemed to sort these out.

Dev Branch is all about testing stuff before release, and fixing the broken things as and when/if they can, it also breaks other things into the bargain, so stay on stable and read the feedback, and wait and see if it's fixed on the next stable release....or play something else till the broken stuff is fixed, why keep the stress levels up when there's solutions to it?

 

You're right. Slagging off isn't acceptable and yes, Dev branch is for the brave only. But he does have a point.

 

I feel his frustration and have some sympathy for him. The much heralded 1.66 'clean sweep' was apparently more about added footstep noises than actual long standing bug fixes,

[fn_Quiksilver 1636]

Just a random thought about AI programming.

 

10 years ago, skilled AI programmers would flock to games to simulate and work their trade.

 

Now, big tech companies like Google, Apple, Amazon, NTT DC, Baidu and firms designing real vehicle driving and AI for the real world ...

 

So my guess is the talent pool for productive AI designers in games has shrunk considerably in the past few years. It is probably too expensive for a studio like BI to hire a team of skilled and productive AI programmers now compared to 10 years ago, even if they wanted to (I'm not so sure BI management is commercially interested in developing their AI anymore, barely anything done in half a decade).

[road runner 4344]

7 minutes ago, Tankbuster said:

You're right. Slagging off isn't acceptable and yes, Dev branch is for the brave only. But he does have a point.

 

I feel his frustration and have some sympathy for him. The much heralded 1.66 'clean sweep' was apparently more about added footstep noises than actual long standing bug fixes,

Again, your preaching to the converted, but at the end of the day, what's the alternative?

[Vasily.B 529]

1 minute ago, road runner said:

Again, your preaching to the converted, but at the end of the day, what's the alternative?

Call to Arms :)

[Tankbuster 1746]

1 hour ago, road runner said:

Again, your preaching to the converted, but at the end of the day, what's the alternative?

I'm not sure. The current state of affairs is unacceptable and not having any prospect of improvement is unpalatable. We have to keep the pressure on. Though if VB uploads another youtube video with horrid shouty rock music on it, I will have him assassinated. :)

[Tankbuster 1746]

1 hour ago, Vasily.B said:

Call to Arms :)

Yes, but those arms would clip though the players wrist, get stuck in doorways, not have a useable silencer and generate a config.bin error. :)

[Vasily.B 529]

27 minutes ago, Tankbuster said:

Yes, but those arms would clip though the players wrist, get stuck in doorways, not have a useable silencer and generate a config.bin error. :)

Not for me, besides its still beta, i also stop using rock for vids as copyrights problems have raised :)