Visual Upgrade – Feedback

[1212PDMCDMPPM 200]

On 11/04/2016 at 10:15 AM, bis_iceman said:

Hello,

the Visual Upgrade has recently been enabled in the Dev-Branch. Please use this thread for providing your splendid feedback and suggestions.

Thanks!
 

 

Hello @bis_iceman,

could we get some splendid feedbacks on our splendid feedbacks ?

Thx !

[Dwarden 1125]

I've asked about those questions raised (3100853, 3160958)  in past  ...

[fabio_chavez 103]

On 7.3.2017 at 3:08 PM, dwarden said:

I've asked about those questions raised (3100853, 3160958)  in past  ...

as far as i am concerned, im through with this, BI broke every bit of work i ever made (some hundrets or hours of work at least) and just abandoned the issue etc... i would never touch this broken system again but i keep getting requests from map makers and other people about skybox and lighting stuff. 

1. its funny, that people who put enormous efforts into their mapping projects have to turn to some self-taught weiner (who quit modding arma long time ago because BI broke backward compability in the middle of the lifecycle of the game) IN THE FIRST PLACE, because there is no proper documentation, because the guy who makes the lighting at BI only speaks chinese and nobody at BI cares to at least make a tutorial video or something.

2. I cant even help the people because i cant get answers from BI to even the simplest yes/no questions (over the course of years). @googlava


p.s. its astounding, there are hundrets of thousands of hours going into mapping for arma, and the lighting is so crutial to every bit of this because it determines the way you actually see all the beatifull creations... yet BI just ignores it and screws with it with no concerne for the comminty made content. Pretty weird imho.

[.kju 3245]

hard but sad truth 

[Uro 220]

 

24 minutes ago, .kju said:

hard but sad truth 

 

I'm still waiting, ~9 months and counting..

[Spacefish 0]

Would be nice to have 10bit log gamma HDR output as well, so one can use their 1000nits monitor to really get flashed by explosions, lasers, fires and so on :D
Furthermore banding wouldn´t be that bad during nighttime when using a log curve and 10bit instead of 8bit and gamma 2.2

[Vasily.B 529]

Bright area around player (LOD) is still here

[Dwarden 1125]

while i agree 10-bit per color would be nice (in relation to more common hi-end monitors),

i fear that type of improvement is out of scope changes possible for existing renderer ...

[fabio_chavez 103]

a small indie developer somehow manages it to find the time to provide a detailed tutorial during the alpha stage... 
a global multi-studio developer with hundrets of employees cant do it in 4 years (8 years if you make arma2 count) ;)

[Guest]

I have to post here -

 

I've now put out two hard worked on missions, one set on Utes (Cup) and the second on Ural winter - both missions I had to either have super early morning starting or fully cloudy so that shadowing/lighting is turned off, which diminishes overall mission quality. The mission on Ural I had to actually go even farther than that and 'lock' the time to 8:10 permanently in mission because much past this and things start glowing. And now after being done with two lengthy projects, I figured hey, why not go back to messing around casually with a simple mission on the awesome map Kunduz.. and wow, at 7:30 in the morning with partly cloudy settings the dang structures and walls are.. glowing.. :( 

And so now, it seems once again I may have to disable the shadows/lighting by putting in super early morning or fully cloudy and put up with a less than visually appealing environment just to get rid of the glowing objects. I really expected Kunduz, being a warm climate type map to be ok with the lighting changes.. nope. Imo, Kunduz is the best user made map I have ever seen that even rivals the quality of the BIS official maps, and even this one is now seemingly permanently damaged. Kunduz *used* to be beautiful with the previous lighting.

It's like other people have said, I don't get it either. To make such dramatic lighting changes that specifically aim only at improving gameplay on official maps and let user made stuff get potentially so wrecked does not seem like something that would sell very well down the road, when especially with Arma 3 so many people are using modded maps and content. I personally am a lower end user that greatly benefits from user made content because my system cannot effectively handle official maps cpu demands, and it is unfortunate to see the really great modded content diminishing more and more in quality due to the lighting changes.

[fabio_chavez 103]

[edit] nevermind

[LykosMactire 298]

On 4/12/2017 at 5:53 AM, fabio_chavez said:

a small indie developer somehow manages it to find the time to provide a detailed tutorial during the alpha stage... 
a global multi-studio developer with hundrets of employees cant do it in 4 years (8 years if you make arma2 count) ;)

Thats because the engines are completely different

[fabio_chavez 103]

2 hours ago, LykosMactire said:

Thats because the engines are completely different

ah ok... so you cant film yourself, talking your audience through config parameters in arma? 
that explains a lot...

[1212PDMCDMPPM 200]

I seriously don't understand why this thread is not getting any love from BI.

Just tried to use chemlights during the night... and totally forgot they were broken since the "upgrade". :( 

 

Can we have a clear action plan detailing all the acknowledge issues and when each is planned to be fixed ?

Make of that a "Night DLC" if you want but please, fix the pile of bugs introduced in 1.60 !

[Antilochos 106]

Although I still love the game, especialy since the last 64 update, this one thing (the broken light since visual upgrade) is still out there as a problem.

Maybe I missed it, but do we have a answer from BI if they're looking into this or not? I mean, even if they're not planning to, no is still an answer and I know what to expect. Now, I'm still thinking and hoping they do look into this and will fix it, but maybe I'm waiting in vain hope.

[andersson 285]

Keeps me from playing. Might seem a bit drama to write that but it's really not. I just can't enjoy the CUP islands where I like to roam.

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

On 7.5.2017 at 0:09 PM, 1212PDMCDMPPM said:

I seriously don't understand why this thread is not getting any love from BI.

Just tried to use chemlights during the night... and totally forgot they were broken since the "upgrade". :( 

 

Can we have a clear action plan detailing all the acknowledge issues and when each is planned to be fixed ?

Make of that a "Night DLC" if you want but please, fix the pile of bugs introduced in 1.60 !

 

Gonna take a few screenshots as soon as the 1080 arrives, from what I can tell it's even a pain in the eye to look at a metal case during daylight on tanoa.

Looks totally washed out, missing any contrast with brightness all over the place.

Stuff doesn't look like that in direct sunlight.

 

Cheers

[Antilochos 106]

I don't mind the chemlight that much, or the metal.

The darkness of the night is what made playing night missions no fun any more, at least for me.

Also, don't forget about the black guy's arms; there kind of pale. Makes me give the poor bastards wear nothing but long sleeves...

 

[Alwarren 2767]

3 hours ago, athena_promachos said:

The darkness of the night is what made playing night missions no fun any more, at least for me.

 

I agree, nights should be dark and full of terror, but not quite as dark. AFAIK Arma 3 doesn't have eye adaption like other games have - that means that even after a while you still don't see anything, and that shouldn't be.

Plus, since the mids are over-extended, white house walls for example seem to literally glow.

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

8 hours ago, Alwarren said:

 

I agree, nights should be dark and full of terror, but not quite as dark. AFAIK Arma 3 doesn't have eye adaption like other games have - that means that even after a while you still don't see anything, and that shouldn't be.

Plus, since the mids are over-extended, white house walls for example seem to literally glow.

That's what I meant, check out the metal crate small/large on broad daylight.

 

Nights are fine as far as I'm concerned, as in reality if there's no moon out or you're in deep forest you won't see much. Spent my fair share of nights inside deep forests for field recordings.

You'll never be able to see anything, no matter how long you're out there. Human eyes just don't catch enough light on a moonless night.

 

For a good in game comparison between almost no moon out and full moon try these:
 

setDate [2017,05,1,0,0];//almost full moon - moonphase: 0.948383
setDate [2017,05,16,0,0];//almost no moon - moonphase: 0.0416772

 

Cheers

[Alwarren 2767]

6 hours ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

Nights are fine as far as I'm concerned, as in reality if there's no moon out or you're in deep forest you won't see much. Spent my fair share of nights inside deep forests for field recordings.

You'll never be able to see anything, no matter how long you're out there. Human eyes just don't catch enough light on a moonless night.

 

It's not only on a moonless night. Even at full moon, shadowed areas are pitch black. That isn't how reality works. It's an artifact from the color lookup table used, 

[Antilochos 106]

12 hours ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

That's what I meant, check out the metal crate small/large on broad daylight.

 

Nights are fine as far as I'm concerned, as in reality if there's no moon out or you're in deep forest you won't see much. Spent my fair share of nights inside deep forests for field recordings.

You'll never be able to see anything, no matter how long you're out there. Human eyes just don't catch enough light on a moonless night.

 

For a good in game comparison between almost no moon out and full moon try these:
 

setDate [2017,05,1,0,0];//almost full moon - moonphase: 0.948383
setDate [2017,05,16,0,0];//almost no moon - moonphase: 0.0416772

 

Cheers

I play mostly on Altris and Stratis, where there are no real dark places like a deep forest so dence that it's pitchblack. Like any other adult person, I also spent enough time at night outside to know how a night should look like. My parents lifed for 11 years in a remote place in southern Spain, wich is simular to those islands I asume and believe me, you can see a lot at night in those places!

 

But on the other hand, this can be subjective since every human eye might work different or the human experience it different. Still I think they went a bit to far with the visual upgrade and the lack of attention for this subject surprises me (because BI proves to have a lot of attention for their players and games far beyond release).

[Vasily.B 529]

I really regret there is no "Undo" option in this game (in terms of Visual Update) . One of reasons why i stopped playing is visual update and its.. wow 5 months right now. Someone here posted Squad tutorial.... In every game, that support modding there are smaller or larger tutorials how to adapt your own addon into new changes. But BI choose to release next DLC and promo it over providing something that everone is waiting years.

[x3kj 1247]

On 10.5.2017 at 7:34 PM, athena_promachos said:

I play mostly on Altris and Stratis, where there are no real dark places like a deep forest so dence that it's pitchblack. Like any other adult person, I also spent enough time at night outside to know how a night should look like. My parents lifed for 11 years in a remote place in southern Spain, wich is simular to those islands I asume and believe me, you can see a lot at night in those places!

 

But on the other hand, this can be subjective since every human eye might work different or the human experience it different. Still I think they went a bit to far with the visual upgrade and the lack of attention for this subject surprises me (because BI proves to have a lot of attention for their players and games far beyond release).

Its not subjective, it just depends a lot on the condition. In moonless, cloudcovered nights inside a european forest with medium undergrowth density and without lightpollution from cities it becomes so pitch black that even with 2nd gen+ NVG plus IR illumination you can see no further than 5m before the image becomes so noisy that you can't make out anything at all. Together with an ordinary  handheld flashlight you could see 10m but that was it. Without light and NVG you could barely see your hand held in front of you, and that after adjusting for 30min.

 

I already said so previously, but the problem ingame doesnt seem to be the light itself. It seems to be the disparity of reflectivity / specularity of different textures.  Grassy ground textures and leafes are barely affected by light at night, they stay almost black. Whereas tree trunks and buildings catch light nicely. If you move in areas with almost no objects that catch light, you can lose orientation easily, even in nights with medium illumination. (unless you turn your monitor gamma up and darken your room completely. In reality gras and leaves can be pretty reflective. Like mentioned earlier, it's not the new lighting setting. It's the poor consistency between textures.

[Antilochos 106]

x3kj, you could be right that it is the lack of light reflexion of objects (being pitch black because of that). Still strange then that BI had it right before the update and did not corrected it when it did not work out well after the update. Can't imagine that BI likes the new nights on Stratis and Altris.

 

Besides that, all the new stuff is just great fun.