RHS Escalation (AFRF and USAF)

[lt_ryan 12]

That's why I said with luck you can shoot down an aircraft... and luck is a rare thing on battlefield. ;)

Another factor might be AI, which in general have better accuracy than human player in ArmA. Try to place there Su-25 and play as Bradley gunner, I bet that hitting aircraft will be much more difficult but not immposible.

And here comes the next problem, you cant fire with the 25mm. As player you are only able to use the coax and stinger.

[archbishop lazarus 24]

That's why I said with luck you can shoot down an aircraft... and luck is a rare thing on battlefield. ;)

Another factor might be AI, which in general have better accuracy than human player in ArmA. Try to place there Su-25 and play as Bradley gunner, I bet that hitting aircraft will be much more difficult but not immposible.

Well, what was shown on the video is not just simply luck, its absolutely impossible. The Su-25 was flying at ~3000m altitude. Even a real Shilka would be unable to shoot it down! It has a maximum target altitude of 1500m (not to be confused with slant range, which is 2500m max.) Anyway, on steel beasts wiki, you can read that the Bradley's AA sight can be used only against hovering or closing helicopters, no fixed wing aircraft mentioned, which are way too much for this type of gunsights. (except if you wish to shoot down a Cessna :D)

[Stagler 39]

I bet if you swapped a bradley for the panther ifv thing or another of the autocannon default vehicles, it would still do the same.

[Damian90 696]

So doesn't that mean the Bradley/IFV AI need to be modified to maybe not attack aircraft that far away at that speed?

Perhaps, question is if it does not break something.

And here comes the next problem, you cant fire with the 25mm. As player you are only able to use the coax and stinger.

It is problem with AGM, play without AGM or wait for fix... latest version of AGM should not fix that allready?

Well, what was shown on the video is not just simply luck, its absolutely impossible. The Su-25 was flying at ~3000m altitude. Even a real Shilka would be unable to shoot it down! It has a maximum target altitude of 1500m (not to be confused with slant range, which is 2500m max.) Anyway, on steel beasts wiki, you can read that the Bradley's AA sight can be used only against hovering or closing helicopters, no fixed wing aircraft mentioned, which are way too much for this type of gunsights. (except if you wish to shoot down a Cessna )

We might try to fix that later, right now other things are in the works AFAIK. Maybe when Reyhard start to create realistic FCS for Bradleys we will think about it, right now he is working on realistic FCS for Abrams tanks.

I bet if you swapped a bradley for the panther ifv thing or another of the autocannon default vehicles, it would still do the same.

Yeah, I will later discuss that with Reyhard and see if something can be done.

[lt_ryan 12]

Perhaps, question is if it does not break something.

It is problem with AGM, play without AGM or wait for fix... latest version of AGM should not fix that allready?

We already tried, put all mods out and started only with cba and RHS still the same problem and insane t80 backward driving

[zio sam 77]

We already tried, put all mods out and started only with cba and RHS still the same problem and insane t80 backward driving

no way.it's an old agm bug fixed in the current release

[lt_ryan 12]

no way.it's an old agm bug fixed in the current release

Well than reached we a dead end here. We tested it without any mods like the readme said. Still getting these bugs

But the next release of the RHS mod is not far away, so I gonna wait

[mistyronin 1181]

No way. Do you think its easy to shoot down an aircraft with those primitive (for AA role) FCS that tanks and IFVs have? Definitely NO! Only slow helicopters. (don't even dream hitting a Mi-24 flying at max speed with an Abrams!)

Lazarus, tho I love good conversations about tanks, we were talking about a Bradley, which is a really different kind of fish ( rate of fire, angle of fire, etc. ).

I mean I agree with you that for an Abrams to shoot down a plane, all the stars have to line up.

But there are reports of M2/M3 shooting down helicopters and planes. That's also why the manuals specify procedures for AA fire in those vehicles. Obviously it's not the best and most effective AA, but as you could read it plays with volume of fire instead of precision ( aka "shoot as much as you can that one projectile will eventually impact on target" ).

And Penguin flew for a few minutes under fire, until the IFV could shoot him down.

Anyway I'll make some consults to gunners from real 25mm guns, to know all the possibilities.

Edited December 28, 2014 by MistyRonin

[nerdwing 13]

But there are reports of M2/M3 shooting down helicopters and planes.

Erm... are you sure about that? :P

IFV's ability to engage airborne targets is often accidentally over-exaggerated in many games (namely DCS :( )

[mistyronin 1181]

Erm... are you sure about that? :P

IFV's ability to engage airborne targets is often accidentally over-exaggerated in many games (namely DCS :( )

Yup, confirmed. The 25mm crews in real life are trained to engage slow low flying aircraft, the accuracy depends entirely in the hability of the gunner.

[PenguinInATuxedo 18]

And Penguin flew for a few minutes under fire, until the IFV could shoot him down.

To be fair I was just loitering most of that, if i had been actively engaging ground targets I bet he would have gotten me much sooner and if there were more than one bradley god help the frogfoot.

[gibonez 18]

Does anyone know if the m113 has T&E on its .50 cal mount ?

I keep looking for high definition pictures of the m113 and cannot see if it indeed has a T&E on the mount like the m3 bipod does.

[Nummi 12]

I know that the people who know about this stuff might not care about my game-centric view on the matter, but here goes anyway.

On the matter of the Bradley being able to engage fixed wings accurately at very long ranges.

Point 1. As has been pointed out here, it is yet to be proven that a bradley can shoot a FAST moving aircraft at long range. All you guys have said is that it is able to take out slow moving aircraft flying low, which is like a very hard version of a helicopter threat. 3000 altitude 300kmh 2000km from the bradley? That just isn't possible with the 25mm.

Point 2. Even if realistically a bradley could engage a target at extreme ranges flying fast, armas engine should be reason enough to prohibit this in game.

I mean, using fixed wings in arma in itself is absolutely horrific (too small maps, horrible viewdistance, no time to co-ordinate CAS or airstrikes, no EQUIPMENT with which to find targets on the ground), why do you have to make the ground vehicles which already have the upper hand even more OP? It just takes away from possible co-op scenarios IMO, if 1 Bradley practically makes every air-asset on the player side cannonfodder (hehheh, literally).

If I have to show why ground vehicles have the upper hand I will, but for now I hope most people understand what I mean by that. The game engine inherently gives ground forces a more ideal environment than air assets.

Does anyone know if the m113 has T&E on its .50 cal mount ?

I keep looking for high definition pictures of the m113 and cannot see if it indeed has a T&E on the mount like the m3 bipod does.

There have been many many many versions of the m113, both for export to NATO allies (and others) and for the US themselves. I'm sure one of the versions does and one doesn't, as little as that helps I know right.

[Damian90 696]

We will further investigate AA capabilities of ground assets, dunno when however, be aware that we might not be capable to do so before 0.3.5 release.

[Nummi 12]

We will further investigate AA capabilities of ground assets, dunno when however, be aware that we might not be capable to do so before 0.3.5 release.

Cool, no pressure, we're all here to play videogames ;)

Loving your mod.

[zio sam 77]

Well than reached we a dead end here. We tested it without any mods like the readme said. Still getting these bugs

But the next release of the RHS mod is not far away, so I gonna wait

Do you also play on a new scenario or a old(pre update) mission?

this is me shooting the 25mm

so you probably missed the update or using old mission...

just trying to help

[Damian90 696]

Cool, no pressure, we're all here to play videogames ;)

Loving your mod.

Also take in to consideration tha we might not be able to fix this as this might be issue with ArmA3 AI. Just saying.

[mistyronin 1181]

On the matter of the Bradley being able to engage fixed wings accurately at very long ranges.

You are not paying attention.

The Bradleys can engage aircraft, but they have no AA assistance, so it's all on the physics and the skill of the gunner. AP rounds can fly up to 14 km and HEI 3 km.

Fact is, one of those rounds ( specially the HEI ) is able to disable an aircraft if it impacts in certain parts.

To give you an idea, is like a WW2 AA HMG, if the gunner can calculate and or anticipate where the round can impact with the aircraft then kaboom. And as the bushmaster is automatic, he has certain margin of error.

Then again we can go to the OFP/Arma series old discussion of how accurate the AI is or should be... But that's mainly on BI's ground.

[archbishop lazarus 24]

Lazarus, tho I love good conversations about tanks, we were talking about a Bradley, which is a really different kind of fish ( rate of fire, angle of fire, etc. ).

I mean I agree with you that for an Abrams to shoot down a plane, all the stars have to line up.

But there are reports of M2/M3 shooting down helicopters and planes. That's also why the manuals specify procedures for AA fire in those vehicles. Obviously it's not the best and most effective AA, but as you could read it plays with volume of fire instead of precision ( aka "shoot as much as you can that one projectile will eventually impact on target" ).

And Penguin flew for a few minutes under fire, until the IFV could shoot him down.

Anyway I'll make some consults to gunners from real 25mm guns, to know all the possibilities.

Im really skeptical about M2/M3 shooting down planes.* Helicopters, thats perfectly fine. Its AA sight is designed for engaging them, not aircraft. Even the BMP-2, which has better AA sight, is only able to shoot down helicopters.

The following is from Steel Beasts wiki:

"The two vertical "funnels" passing through AP/HE/Coax reticle are the Air Defense Reticles used to engage hovering frontal or closing helicopter targets. The longer funnel is for HE rounds, while the shorter is for AP. To utilize the ADR sight the gunner manually inputs a range of 1800 meters, then "chokes" the fuselage of the enemy helicopter within the appropriate funnel and fires a continuous burst of 20 to 25 rounds (high rate), using the TOT (tracer on target) technique to adjust the rounds. "

This is rather ineffective vs fixed wing aircraft (except Cessna for example). Same goes for BMP-2. Also, dont forget that M242 has very low rate of fire, this wont help you too.

*wasnt that confused with the M6 Linebacker? Its Stingers are perfectly good vs aircraft.

[christian2526 68]

Its an emergency action for tanks to shot down Aircrafts also its only being said in the Tank Gunner Training that the Tank is able to shot.

[mistyronin 1181]

Its an emergency action for tanks to shot down Aircrafts also its only being said in the Tank Gunner Training that the Tank is able to shot.

I think that in the tank's case it's a shoot and pray...

[christian2526 68]

Yea kinda, as i said it is only being said not teached or whatever because the world largest AirForce is the US Air Force and the second largest Airforce is the US Navy Aviation. They dont even maintain the Anti Air Tanks anymore, they only use Stinger now (and ofcourse patriot and laser guns :D )

[Kaxii 11]

Are you considering adding helmet randomization like in CAF mod? I think it would add to the look of the Russian forces a lot and would make better use of your large selection of helmet modifications

Edited December 28, 2014 by Kaxii

[mistyronin 1181]

Are you considering adding helmet randomization like in XAF mod? I think it would add to the look of the Russian forces a lot and would make better use of your large selection of helmet modifications

It's not a bad idea.

[1986marek 18]

Will You guys make some USAF units, like PJ, or TACP?