Weapon Resting & Deployment Feedback

[enex 11]

It wouldn't work when your weapon doesn't have a conveniently positioned magazine, when the magazine isn't long enough, when it doesn't have a magazine, when it is an internal magazine, when it's a bullpup rifle, etc.

Basic stability like "I'm prone and bracing myself against the ground" or "I'm holding my weapon in a really special way against the ground" is already accounted for in the default prone behavior and additionally benefits are also given by weapon resting.

I tried resting with M4 and it works on grassy ground without problem.MX appears to have bigger magazine then STANAGs so it would work there.Mk2000 would work too since it uses stanags.

Bulpup would work too the only difference is resting on the back of the rifle rather then on center, same goes for Katiba and TRG.MGs can deploy even easier on the ammo belt.

Weapon shouldn't be rested when there is no magazines and in gameplay perspective when you are out of ammo you usually don't deploy your weapon.I'm not sure which rifle has internal magazine.

"I'm prone and bracing myself against the ground" Body movement is minimized as it's stabilized on the ground.I like deploying weapon without bipods because there is no game that did this before,

because of arcs of fire, and because it requires my input to do that bonus is I can rest my weapon on the mag in real life (horizontal, elevated...)

If magazines are unstable platform then there are always arms to brace your weapon when you are on the ground.

[Jackal326 1181]

I tried resting with M4 and it works on grassy ground without problem.MX appears to have bigger magazine then STANAGs so it would work there.Mk2000 would work too since it uses stanags.

Bulpup would work too the only difference is resting on the back of the rifle rather then on center, same goes for Katiba and TRG.MGs can deploy even easier on the ammo belt.

Weapon shouldn't be rested when there is no magazines and in gameplay perspective when you are out of ammo you usually don't deploy your weapon.I'm not sure which rifle has internal magazine.

"I'm prone and bracing myself against the ground" Body movement is minimized as it's stabilized on the ground.I like deploying weapon without bipods because there is no game that did this before,

because of arcs of fire, and because it requires my input to do that bonus is I can rest my weapon on the mag in real life (horizontal, elevated...)

If magazines are unstable platform then there are always arms to brace your weapon when you are on the ground.

The point is, unless you have the core strength of a god-like creature able to elevate yourself from the waist up to be off the ground, you'd do that when laying prone regardless of any "user input". This brings us full-circle to the "What is the point in deploying when prone without a bipod?" question, to which the answer is, "There isn't one"

[froggyluv 2136]

Find Jackal and enex's argument far more entertaining when imagining the women in their sig's voicing it out.

[twisted 128]

I know what you mean, but using the magazine to brace your weapon is a no no in the real world. A good shooter braces his arm. Using the magazine is very unstable.

Anyway... That does not matter. The point you were making was that it should be possible to deploy without bipod, and I agree with that. How it's done IRL does not really matter. What matter's is that it can be done.

i agree with your first paragraph. but not the second.

How its done in real life does matter when it should not convey anywhere near the level of support/stability it does now. it's one of the dumbing down decisions that are made to simplify things when in fact it just negates the reason for having bipods currently.

i thikn BIS have made some great decisons in the dlc. and they made a few dodgy decisions that should be fixed. resting rifle on flat ground is one of them.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

there are always arms to brace your weapon when you are on the ground.

Keep in mind the weapon resting and weapon deployment are distinct features. As BI toots it, weapon resting is using your body in combination with the surroundings to provide a more stable shooting platform, this is where what you are saying comes in. It already works that way as a part of weapon resting without a keypress and if you aim towards the sky when prone, your elbows/arms lift and you lose this benefit. You are more stable in prone by default because this is the default behavior. I do not know of a way to unstable myself from prone while aiming parallel to the ground without doing something dumb like purposefully lifting my elbows to the sides, like chicken wings.

Weapon deployment is actively bracing a weapon against something that is not your body and creating a contact point between your gun and something that is not your body.

I'm saying that that without bipods, resting is as far as prone should go because it already does what both you and Brisse are illustrating.

[Sterlingarcherz101 15]

I know what you mean, but using the magazine to brace your weapon is a no no in the real world. A good shooter braces his arm. Using the magazine is very unstable.

Anyway... That does not matter. The point you were making was that it should be possible to deploy without bipod, and I agree with that. How it's done IRL does not really matter. What matter's is that it can be done.

Yes it can be done in real life.

Speaking in game with now having bi pods resting on walls and other surfaces. Do you not think could have done without this invisible bi pod like pivot.

it just seems to look ridiculous and really kill the joy and purpose of bi pods.

[enex 11]

Find Jackal and enex's argument far more entertaining when imagining the women in their sig's voicing it out.

He wins however since he has bigger power in numbers : D

[Jackal326 1181]

Find Jackal and enex's argument far more entertaining when imagining the women in their sig's voicing it out.

Its a discussion, not an argument :)

As a counter to the "bullshit deployment" of non-bipod'ed weapons, I've just had to put in a bipod pivot memory point on a few weapons I've been working on if by few you mean 60-odd models, sure...

Anyway, this was to counter the sinking into the ground that I was experiencing with these weapons without this memory point. The positioning of the point was made about 6 inches below the bottom of the magazine and about 8 inches in front of it, roughly where a bipod would be if the weapons didn't have a vertical foregrip, but a little lower (see screenshot)

Now, this has successfully counteracted the sinking experienced when you deploy this weapon whilst prone.

However, now imagine the position this puts the weapon in whilst deployed on a window-ledge or a wall...

Its floating! Who'd have thunk...Now I realise there is a difference between resting a weapon and actively deploying it, however bracing the fore-grip of a weapon on a window-ledge (i.e deploying) certainly makes more sense than "deploying" whilst prone. However, to combat the sinking, you end up with a floating weapon when deploying elsewhere....

Edited April 9, 2015 by Jackal326

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Its floating! Who'd have thunk...Now I realise there is a difference between resting a weapon and actively deploying it, however bracing the fore-grip of a weapon on a window-ledge (i.e deploying) certainly makes more sense than "deploying" whilst prone. However, to combat the sinking, you end up with a floating weapon when deploying elsewhere....

The BI weapons themselves have these problems, even the bipods sink or hover on object surfaces, there's no need to pre-emptively compensate for it. From what I can tell, this positioning algorithm is still being worked on, so memory points should be placed where they actually make sense. I don't know when you made those changes with memponts, but the "sinking into ground" should be fixed even if you placed mempoints where they actuallymake sense, at least it was on a recent dev push.

From what I can tell, they're currently working on tweaking offsets based on the angle your weapon comes into contact with the surface. You can observe this by aiming on a window and then aiming up and down repeteadly, you'll notice a distinct shift in the rotation point at around the point where the weapon starts aiming downwards.

[Bleemus 10]

Ok I am an idiot. How do you deploy the bipod? I have it on my gun but it stays where it is whether I am prone or not. They legs never fold open to touch the ground. Not in Action menu nor under Weapon configuration.

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[Brisse 78]

Oh goosh. This has been asked a thousand times since stable release. Just press the bloody "C" on your keyboard to deploy.

[rebel12340 46]

Something I've noticed is the aiming arc when deployed will move right as you fire. It's really noticeable when firing the SPMG, deploying it on the ground, aiming as far left as you can, firing, and seeing that you can no longer go as far left as you were able to, but can now go farther to the right.

[St. Jimmy 272]

Something I've noticed is the aiming arc when deployed will move right as you fire. It's really noticeable when firing the SPMG, deploying it on the ground, aiming as far left as you can, firing, and seeing that you can no longer go as far left as you were able to, but can now go farther to the right.

Yeah there's already a couple tickets about it and it's assigned.

[Jackal326 1181]

I wonder if its somehow related to the new recoil mechanics, as I've noticed my aim drifts up and to the right when firing un-deployed...

[R3vo 2654]

I wonder if its somehow related to the new recoil mechanics, as I've noticed my aim drifts up and to the right when firing un-deployed...

This is intended and realistic, if you hold a weapon in you're right hand against you right shoulder, it will also turn you to the right when firing.

[Greenfist 1863]

no, wait. Nevermind.

[Jackal326 1181]

This is intended and realistic, if you hold a weapon in you're right hand against you right shoulder, it will also turn you to the right when firing.

I realise that, wasn't trying to state anything different. I was merely saying that perhaps part of the new recoil effects (i.e. the horizontal part of the up-right diagonal drift) isn't being countered by the bipod deployment.

[R3vo 2654]

I realise that, wasn't trying to state anything different. I was merely saying that perhaps part of the new recoil effects (i.e. the horizontal part of the up-right diagonal drift) isn't being countered by the bipod deployment.

You were saying "when un-deployed" so I assumed you were not talking about bipods. Or are we talking past each other?

[Jackal326 1181]

Yeah I think we've got crossed wires due to my inability to explain things clearly :P

What I meant was, the aim-drift seen when firing whilst deployed is the same as firing whilst not deployed - minus the upward drift (i.e. you just get the horizontal drift, not the vertical too). So perhaps the horizontal drift part of the new recoil mechanics isn't being countered by bipods as the vertical recoil seems to be.

[R3vo 2654]

Yeah I think we've got crossed wires due to my inability to explain things clearly :P

What I meant was, the aim-drift seen when firing whilst deployed is the same as firing whilst not deployed - minus the upward drift (i.e. you just get the horizontal drift, not the vertical too). So perhaps the horizontal drift part of the new recoil mechanics isn't being countered by bipods as the vertical recoil seems to be.

That's definitely an issue, it should be way less, maybe even 0.

[KeyCat 131]

Why was it decided to allow deployment without bipods? Why would a weapon become more stabilized when a magical key is pressed? What is the RL equivalent of deploying without bipods? It doesn't make any sense, and it encourage the player to keep on resting his weapon and makes the automatic resting mechanism redundant.

I have to agree. A possible way if disabling the active deployment on weapons without bipods could be to increase the stability a tad more while resting on a surface (horizontal or vertical). This cuts down the four states of weapon handling (as pettka explained them) to three states and would make a bit more sense IMO.

BTW: Anyone figure out how to deploy bipods on uneven surfaces without having the weapon/sight tilting or is it still WIP or maybe even a feature?

/KC

Edited April 10, 2015 by KeyCat

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I have to agree. A possible way if disabling the active deployment on weapons without bipods could be to increase the stability a tad more while resting on a surface (horizontal or vertical). This cuts down the four states of weapon handling (as pettka explained them) to three states and would make a bit more sense IMO.

BTW: Anyone figure out how to deploy bipods on uneven surfaces without having the weapon/sight tilting or is it still WIP or maybe even a feature?

/KC

They're not going to remove resting without bipods. They even explained and showed you how they mapped it in the Marksman Diary. Why do people keep thinking that it's a broken feature? Bipods offer you far more stability than just propping up your gun on a wall or surface. In real life I can deploy my rifle without bipods. I can lay down fire in a cone, but it won't be as accurate as if I were using Bipods. This is also how it works in game. It's not broken, it's not a bug. Weapon deployment and weapon resting are two different things.

On another note, havn't been able to test, but I hope Bipods stability are tweaked. I get the same sway as if I stand up and hold my breath.

[twisted 128]

They're not going to remove resting without bipods. They even explained and showed you how they mapped it in the Marksman Diary. Why do people keep thinking that it's a broken feature? Bipods offer you far more stability than just propping up your gun on a wall or surface. In real life I can deploy my rifle without bipods. I can lay down fire in a cone, but it won't be as accurate as if I were using Bipods. This is also how it works in game. It's not broken, it's not a bug. Weapon deployment and weapon resting are two different things.

On another note, havn't been able to test, but I hope Bipods stability are tweaked. I get the same sway as if I stand up and hold my breath.

sure, but the resting your rifle on the flat ground without a bipod is just wrong. i like the non bipod deployement on walls, or rocks, or vechiles, etc. but on the flat ground, no way. and nope, resting on your magazine isnt going to stabilize it like a bipod would, no where near, or else who'd need bipods?

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

sure, but the resting your rifle on the flat ground without a bipod is just wrong. i like the non bipod deployement on walls, or rocks, or vechiles, etc. but on the flat ground, no way. and nope, resting on your magazine isnt going to stabilize it like a bipod would, no where near, or else who'd need bipods?

I can agree with flat ground. But about a lot of other places I could physically rest my gun. However, resting on flat ground in game makes up for things you could do on real life in the case you don't have a bipod. For example, I would take off my bag, and use that to brace my rifle best I could. Now, we can't take our bags off in game and rest our gu... Wait, has anyone tried this? Yo, someone try this. Place a bag on the ground and try deploying on it!

[andersson 285]

sure, but the resting your rifle on the flat ground without a bipod is just wrong. i like the non bipod deployement on walls, or rocks, or vechiles, etc. but on the flat ground, no way. and nope, resting on your magazine isnt going to stabilize it like a bipod would, no where near, or else who'd need bipods?

In Finland we are taught to use the magazine as a third point of contact to the ground while prone. That makes it much more stable. But then kalasnhikovs do have a very long magazine and this is obviously not applicable to all weapons.